To me that would imply some kind of evolution of the design towards performance or ergonomics improvement. Essentially the straight spine was only intended to make it look different from the original mule shape.
POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
I’m am guessing that that exact thing was talked about in their meeting on this topic. SPY27 was already “tested” on the normal mule team run. This is a way to provide a knife blank. A knife blank does not fit into any of their already established categories other than the Mule Team.Mushroom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:33 pmSo if the “Mule Team 2” is primarily supposed to be a knife blank readily available for custom knife making projects and it’s not supposed to be a platform for controlled testing of blade steels, I don’t see why changing the name would meet any resistance. Its most likely easier than changing the knife itself, it would satisfy those that prefer to keep the straight spine version, and it would clearly and obviously seperate it from the original Mule Team Project.
Rather than creating a whole new category name, section on their web page, section in the catalog, etc., for one knife (or if they release more production “blanks” at a later date, a handful of knives) it is simply easier to roll out and market under the already established “Mule Team” line/category rather than a new line named “Blank Team” or something else which doesn’t nearly have the attractive ring to it that Mule Team does.
So make it straight spine, add on a few characters to the SKU and “2” to the name and hit the ground running with it. It’s separate enough from the normal Mule Teams but grouped under the category because it’s the smart/cost effective business thing to do, especially when it’s something being offered that they didn’t have to in the first place.
Sal, name it what you want, shape it how you want, for this size and quality of metal for a knife to do whatever with for $60…I personally feel some semantics should not derail, complicate, or have the company spend any more budget to retool something that you all didn’t need to make in the first place but did as a courtesy to the consumer.
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
I agree , MT2 is separate from separate and hopefully evolve into other blade variations , steel will and should be up to Spyderco . MG2CLOK wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:51 pmI’m am guessing that that exact thing was talked about in their meeting on this topic. SPY27 was already “tested” on the normal mule team run. This is a way to provide a knife blank. A knife blank does not fit into any of their already established categories other than the Mule Team.Mushroom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:33 pmSo if the “Mule Team 2” is primarily supposed to be a knife blank readily available for custom knife making projects and it’s not supposed to be a platform for controlled testing of blade steels, I don’t see why changing the name would meet any resistance. Its most likely easier than changing the knife itself, it would satisfy those that prefer to keep the straight spine version, and it would clearly and obviously seperate it from the original Mule Team Project.
Rather than creating a whole new category name, section on their web page, section in the catalog, etc., for one knife (or if they release more production “blanks” at a later date, a handful of knives) it is simply easier to roll out and market under the already established “Mule Team” line/category rather than a new line named “Blank Team” or something else which doesn’t nearly have the attractive ring to it that Mule Team does.
So make it straight spine, add on a few characters to the SKU and “2” to the name and hit the ground running with it. It’s separate enough from the normal Mule Teams but grouped under the category because it’s the smart/cost effective business thing to do, especially when it’s something being offered that they didn’t have to in the first place.
Sal, name it what you want, shape it how you want, for this size and quality of metal for a knife to do whatever with for $60…I personally feel some semantics should not derail, complicate, or have the company spend any more budget to retool something that you all didn’t need to make in the first place but did as a courtesy to the consumer.
MNOSD 0002 / Do more than is required of you . Patton
Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
Henry David Thoreau
Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
Henry David Thoreau
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
None of that was suggested and they’ve sold other fixed blade blanks in the past so its not unchartered territory to begin with. But thanks for your input, I guess.CLOK wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:51 pmRather than creating a whole new category name, section on their web page, section in the catalog, etc., for one knife (or if they release more production “blanks” at a later date, a handful of knives) it is simply easier to roll out and market under the already established “Mule Team” line/category rather than a new line named “Blank Team” or something else which doesn’t nearly have the attractive ring to it that Mule Team does.Mushroom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:33 pmSo if the “Mule Team 2” is primarily supposed to be a knife blank readily available for custom knife making projects and it’s not supposed to be a platform for controlled testing of blade steels, I don’t see why changing the name would meet any resistance. Its most likely easier than changing the knife itself, it would satisfy those that prefer to keep the straight spine version, and it would clearly and obviously seperate it from the original Mule Team Project.
I don’t know what your obsession with categories is about but I find that irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
-Nick
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
No obsession. This is a business and I was providing some possible reasons as to why they may have put this with the Mule Team name rather than another route, which you clearly rather them have done.Mushroom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:27 pmNone of that was suggested and they’ve sold other fixed blade blanks in the past so its not unchartered territory to begin with. But thanks for your input, I guess.CLOK wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:51 pmRather than creating a whole new category name, section on their web page, section in the catalog, etc., for one knife (or if they release more production “blanks” at a later date, a handful of knives) it is simply easier to roll out and market under the already established “Mule Team” line/category rather than a new line named “Blank Team” or something else which doesn’t nearly have the attractive ring to it that Mule Team does.Mushroom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:33 pmSo if the “Mule Team 2” is primarily supposed to be a knife blank readily available for custom knife making projects and it’s not supposed to be a platform for controlled testing of blade steels, I don’t see why changing the name would meet any resistance. Its most likely easier than changing the knife itself, it would satisfy those that prefer to keep the straight spine version, and it would clearly and obviously seperate it from the original Mule Team Project.
I don’t know what your obsession with categories is about but I find that irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
But I am sorry to muddle up the thread with my irrelevant opinions. Your opinions are the only ones that matters on this forum, I guess. You have made that pretty clear lately it seems. I do enjoy learning some stuff from your posts though from time to time.
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
Sorry if I’m a bit on edge in this thread… first I was told my whole post and opinion is a joke, then I was straight up insulted for having an opinion.CLOK wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:02 amNo obsession. This is a business and I was providing some possible reasons as to why they may have put this with the Mule Team name rather than another route, which you clearly rather them have done.Mushroom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:27 pmNone of that was suggested and they’ve sold other fixed blade blanks in the past so its not unchartered territory to begin with. But thanks for your input, I guess.CLOK wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:51 pmRather than creating a whole new category name, section on their web page, section in the catalog, etc., for one knife (or if they release more production “blanks” at a later date, a handful of knives) it is simply easier to roll out and market under the already established “Mule Team” line/category rather than a new line named “Blank Team” or something else which doesn’t nearly have the attractive ring to it that Mule Team does.Mushroom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:33 pmSo if the “Mule Team 2” is primarily supposed to be a knife blank readily available for custom knife making projects and it’s not supposed to be a platform for controlled testing of blade steels, I don’t see why changing the name would meet any resistance. Its most likely easier than changing the knife itself, it would satisfy those that prefer to keep the straight spine version, and it would clearly and obviously seperate it from the original Mule Team Project.
I don’t know what your obsession with categories is about but I find that irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
But I am sorry to muddle up the thread with my irrelevant opinions. Your opinions are the only ones that matters on this forum, I guess. You have made that pretty clear lately it seems. I do enjoy learning some stuff from your posts though from time to time.
I never said your opinion doesn’t matter. I just don’t find that fitting this knife into its own respective category to be such a novel business decision. (Nor a necessary one) They were able to add the current MT28P2 into their “accessory” category without any issues. I don’t see why having a different name would require anything different than that. It could be called something other than “Mule Team” and still be in the accessory category of their catalog.
They have also sold a Bushcraft Blank (FB26SPEC) in the past and that had no relation to the Mule Team whatsoever.
This isn’t about what I would rather have seen them done. If it was, I would’ve rather had them never make the straight spine Mule Team in the first place. The idea to change the name was as simple as adding to the discussion that Sal asked for. I never claimed it was the only answer here, it was just one proposed solution. (Also not the only one I’ve suggested)
-Nick
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
Hmm, sometimes, actually often, I’m not able to wrap my head around things or convey my thoughts about some things clearly.
So, I’ll just go with what I really feel
If I can get a Spy27 Mule with serrations, and Spyderco keeps doing the regular Mule Team while offering some form of a Spy27 “Mule Team 2” in production, I’m fine with whatever.
You could do all sorts of things with the production version and I’d be into it.
I’ll suggest making a few of every Mule in SpyderEdge from now on, but that’s only what I think would be interesting.
I think a good idea that’s come from this thread is a Spy27 logo because it’d be neat.
So, I’ll just go with what I really feel
If I can get a Spy27 Mule with serrations, and Spyderco keeps doing the regular Mule Team while offering some form of a Spy27 “Mule Team 2” in production, I’m fine with whatever.
You could do all sorts of things with the production version and I’d be into it.
I’ll suggest making a few of every Mule in SpyderEdge from now on, but that’s only what I think would be interesting.
I think a good idea that’s come from this thread is a Spy27 logo because it’d be neat.
rex121 is the king of steel, but nature’s teeth have been cutting for hundreds of millions of years and counting :cool:
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
Everyone’s opinion matters and everyone is bringing up valid points. We, myself included, I think can find better ways to carry the conversation rather than coming off as dismissive to others thoughts. I am sorry for how I may have came across.
My guess, and only a guess, the bushcraft blank (which I didn’t know about until you mentioned it Mushroom, again, I learn stuff from your posts from time to time which is nice) is far apart enough from the design of the Mule Team where the MT28P2 only has one main difference in spec being straight spine, that they just did their own thing with it. And to your point, they could have done the same with the MT28P2.
In the end, I think I just trust and respect Sal and the team’s original decision and thought process to place this one under the Mule Team name. If they feel they made the wrong decision after this thread and want to label it differently, change the shape, or whatever else, I trust their judgement on that too and will buy it as long as it’s in the same price realm of this one. I just like having this as an option so I don’t mess up the normal limited Mule runs if I damage the knife while making scales or anything else.
My guess, and only a guess, the bushcraft blank (which I didn’t know about until you mentioned it Mushroom, again, I learn stuff from your posts from time to time which is nice) is far apart enough from the design of the Mule Team where the MT28P2 only has one main difference in spec being straight spine, that they just did their own thing with it. And to your point, they could have done the same with the MT28P2.
In the end, I think I just trust and respect Sal and the team’s original decision and thought process to place this one under the Mule Team name. If they feel they made the wrong decision after this thread and want to label it differently, change the shape, or whatever else, I trust their judgement on that too and will buy it as long as it’s in the same price realm of this one. I just like having this as an option so I don’t mess up the normal limited Mule runs if I damage the knife while making scales or anything else.
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
I appreciate all of the comments, suggestions and dialogue. We have been asked on several occassions to make some kind of "standard" Mule that which could be used to compare the other steels in the project. It was this request that I was trying to serve. I selected SPY27 because it's somewhat unique and in the general range of blade steels without being too extreme.
The fact that it may be used as a "kit Knife" is just a by-product of the reason. Mule Team 99 had edge retention that was higher or lower than the "Standard". Mule Team 98 was lower in Corrosion resistance than the "Standard", etc.
I thought to add a serrated version was give you an opportunity to compare teeth to no teeth in the "Standard". I don't think we'd want to add the variable of adding teeth to every Mule Team as it would be "too much" Serrations add their own set of variables like: angle, geometry, shape, size as well as the test medium which I feel would contaminate the project.
Now it looks like even separating the grit finish from one side of the edge to the other may be another variable?
This is "work in progress" so nothing is set in stone. I'm pleased that you are enjoying the project.
sal
The fact that it may be used as a "kit Knife" is just a by-product of the reason. Mule Team 99 had edge retention that was higher or lower than the "Standard". Mule Team 98 was lower in Corrosion resistance than the "Standard", etc.
I thought to add a serrated version was give you an opportunity to compare teeth to no teeth in the "Standard". I don't think we'd want to add the variable of adding teeth to every Mule Team as it would be "too much" Serrations add their own set of variables like: angle, geometry, shape, size as well as the test medium which I feel would contaminate the project.
Now it looks like even separating the grit finish from one side of the edge to the other may be another variable?
This is "work in progress" so nothing is set in stone. I'm pleased that you are enjoying the project.
sal
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
Thank you Sal. I appreciate the insight on the thought process and it is nice to have a “standard” available at all times to make those baseline comparisons as you mentioned for testing. There are a lot of variables that could take place but I think you found a happy medium for the start of this project, for sure.
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
I’m definitely enjoying my Straight Spine Mule!
Spy27 has been doing great for me. I think its a great value too. There’s really nothing that beats the performance you can get from a Mule for the price.
I knew the teeth were a long shot, but I’ll be more than happy with them on “just” the one Mule!
Spy27 has been doing great for me. I think its a great value too. There’s really nothing that beats the performance you can get from a Mule for the price.
I knew the teeth were a long shot, but I’ll be more than happy with them on “just” the one Mule!
Last edited by Cl1ff on Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
rex121 is the king of steel, but nature’s teeth have been cutting for hundreds of millions of years and counting :cool:
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
I don’t like and don’t currently plan on purchasing a straight spine Mule. Its looks are just too awkward in my mind. If the hole were moved and thumb ramp were reduced, the straight spine could be made to look natural and good, but the combo of the straight spine, spydiehole location, and abrupt thumb ramp as they currently are are seriously unattractive.
Have: old S30V Native, HAP40 Endura, ZDP DF2, S110V Manix LW, Cru-wear Para 3, SE H1 DF2, S90V Native 5, K390 Urban, SE Pac Salt, P.I.T.S., XHP Manix LW, SB Caly 3, B70P, PMA11, K03, Kapara, REX 45 Military, 154CM Manix LW, Swick, AEB-L Urban, KC Cruwear Manix, M390 PM2, Mantra 2, CruCarta Shaman, M390 Manix, K390 Police 4, S90V Manix LW, Rex 45 Manix LW, 20CV Manix, Rex 45 Lil’Native, Shaman, C208GP, Cruwear Manix, Cruwear Manix, M4 Chief, Z-max!!!
Want: SPY27, K490, Swick 5.
Want: SPY27, K490, Swick 5.
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
Start an "Evolution" Team with all blanks using the Spy27 steel. Release different blade shapes, edges, etc...
Regarding the poll, I do like the idea of the standard Mule Team blade shape to stay true to the original project. I also think that enlarging the Spydie hole, or a laser engraving, to differentiate it from the original is a good idea.
Very interesting read with plenty of great ideas and opinions!
Regarding the poll, I do like the idea of the standard Mule Team blade shape to stay true to the original project. I also think that enlarging the Spydie hole, or a laser engraving, to differentiate it from the original is a good idea.
Very interesting read with plenty of great ideas and opinions!
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
I simply think a Mule should be a Mule. Having Mules in 2 shapes doesn't necessarily appeal to me. I don't love or hate the original shape and I don't mind the change in the new shape. I just think Spyderco should pick the one that's easiest for them to produce and keep things as cheap and simple as possible. Long live the Mule program!
:spyder: Spyderco fan and collector since 1991. :spyder:
Father of 2, nature explorer, custom knife maker.
@ckc_knifemaker on Instagram.
Father of 2, nature explorer, custom knife maker.
@ckc_knifemaker on Instagram.
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
Brand new Spyderco fan here (bought a Manix 2 a few weeks ago and love it)... I voted to keep the blade the same because I ordered the M398 Mule (first Mule) and I really like that blade shape plus being able to use the same sheath is a bonus because I carry mine as I am testing it. BTW, I love the M398 and its edge holding ability.
Best regards,
Kenny
Best regards,
Kenny
Best Regards,
Kenny
Manix 2 CPM S30V G-10, M398 Mule
Kenny
Manix 2 CPM S30V G-10, M398 Mule
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
legOFwhat I love the WharnSpy27 idea. But if that is not an option keep the straight spine for differentiation from the other collectible mules.legOFwhat? wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:56 amMake the standard Spy wharncliff, similar to the jojimbo, lose the nub. Receive fat stacks of cash?
Call it the WharnSpy mule or WharnSpy27.
Maybe the Spy27 regular mule could be a test bed for different shapes? Although that might kill sales for that mule, depending on the shape.
Greg
* EDC - - - PM2 - S45VN, Native 5 - CRUWEAR, Rockjumper - VG 10, Manix 2 LW - CPM M4
Mules in current use AEB-L and K294
* EDC - - - PM2 - S45VN, Native 5 - CRUWEAR, Rockjumper - VG 10, Manix 2 LW - CPM M4
Mules in current use AEB-L and K294
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
Hi Kenny
Welcome to our forum.
Hope you enjoy your time here. Lotsa great folks hang here.
sal
Welcome to our forum.
Hope you enjoy your time here. Lotsa great folks hang here.
sal
- legOFwhat?
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
Maybe someone with photoshop skills could mash up a warncliffe blade to a MT handle....VandymanG wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:50 amlegOFwhat I love the WharnSpy27 idea. But if that is not an option keep the straight spine for differentiation from the other collectible mules.legOFwhat? wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:56 amMake the standard Spy wharncliff, similar to the jojimbo, lose the nub. Receive fat stacks of cash?
Call it the WharnSpy mule or WharnSpy27.
Maybe the Spy27 regular mule could be a test bed for different shapes? Although that might kill sales for that mule, depending on the shape.
-Larry
Hebrews 13:6 So we may boldly say: “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?”
MNOSD #0049
Hebrews 13:6 So we may boldly say: “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?”
MNOSD #0049
Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
Just turn the existing one upside-down.legOFwhat? wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:31 pmMaybe someone with photoshop skills could mash up a warncliffe blade to a MT handle....VandymanG wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:50 amlegOFwhat I love the WharnSpy27 idea. But if that is not an option keep the straight spine for differentiation from the other collectible mules.legOFwhat? wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:56 amMake the standard Spy wharncliff, similar to the jojimbo, lose the nub. Receive fat stacks of cash?
Call it the WharnSpy mule or WharnSpy27.
Maybe the Spy27 regular mule could be a test bed for different shapes? Although that might kill sales for that mule, depending on the shape.
- legOFwhat?
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2
Coastal wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:53 pmJust turn the existing one upside-down.legOFwhat? wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:31 pmMaybe someone with photoshop skills could mash up a warncliffe blade to a MT handle....VandymanG wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:50 amlegOFwhat I love the WharnSpy27 idea. But if that is not an option keep the straight spine for differentiation from the other collectible mules.legOFwhat? wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:56 amMake the standard Spy wharncliff, similar to the jojimbo, lose the nub. Receive fat stacks of cash?
Call it the WharnSpy mule or WharnSpy27.
Maybe the Spy27 regular mule could be a test bed for different shapes? Although that might kill sales for that mule, depending on the shape.
-Larry
Hebrews 13:6 So we may boldly say: “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?”
MNOSD #0049
Hebrews 13:6 So we may boldly say: “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?”
MNOSD #0049