Spyderco Forums

This thread will start out with the Native 5 Salt since at this time it's our only option for SE MagnaCut, but as more models become available I will probably move to larger blades but I plan to keep using this Native for long term results.




I had to take a pic with some weird shadows just to show that this is indeed a MagnaCut version. The laser engraving is small and somewhat faint and disappears in some light.




It did have a bit of a wire edge in some spots so I ran it over the brown Sharpmaker rods to smooth them out. This also establishes a 30 degrees inclusive edge bevel so others can compare their results (I sharpened the back side at 15 degrees as well as the front so the apex is 30 inclusive).

The shiny spots near the tang are where the edge was a little wavy.





The good news is the serrations are ground quite thin, meaning you can micro bevel and begin sharpening on the 30 degree slots. I can not express how much I appreciate this and I hope Spyderco are doing this on purpose. It eliminates the need to reprofile a brand new knife and is absolutely a blessing. Please do this more!



The bad news is the plain edge at the tip is really steep, something above 20 degrees. I noticed the rods were hitting on the shoulder on the 30 slots so I moved to the 40 slots and it still hits the shoulder. This kinda sucks, it's kinda tricky to reprofile just that PE section. I may do it on my Edge Pro. For now I just freehanded the front side to remove the burr. The cutting performance I'm looking to explore in this thread is regarding the serrations anyway.




I'm going to check back on the Caribbean/LC200N testing I did and try to gather up the same materials to cut up so there's some kind similarities, even though being totally different knives is already not the best for comparison sake.

I will update over the next few days as stuff gets cut.

Man, I am sooo looking forward to this!! - your Caribbean torture test thread is still one of the best and coolest on this forum (I may share a link to that thread for those who are not aware of it viewtopic.php?t=85045#p1366199

One question: Why did you give the Native a 30 incl. edge and did not sharpen one side at 15 and just remove the burr on the other? Don´t you do it along that lines usually? (I certainly do (though sometimes 20 instead of 15 and assumed most others would too with SE)

Excellent thread David.
I recall having a similar plain edge tip on a wharncliffe Spyderedge Salt 1 in H1 a few years ago. I wonder if the plain edge tip was made by design or default - purposely done to strengthen the tip, or just the result of less attention to detail.

Evil D wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:58 pm

The bad news is the plain edge at the tip is really steep, something above 20 degrees. I noticed the rods were hitting on the shoulder on the 30 slots so I moved to the 40 slots and it still hits the shoulder. This kinda sucks, it's kinda tricky to reprofile just that PE section. I may do it on my Edge Pro. For now I just freehanded the front side to remove the burr. The cutting performance I'm looking to explore in this thread is regarding the serrations anyway.

this is the same thing that happened with the ayoob sprint. i think that's why there's such a snaggletooth on some copies, because the two bevels don't meet in the right spot on the serration pattern. i've yet to reprofile my pe portion because i don't have time to sit there and do it. it's a shame they don't pay enough attention to that forward pe section to make the bevel match.

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:37 pm

Man, I am sooo looking forward to this!! - your Caribbean torture test thread is still one of the best and coolest on this forum (I may share a link to that thread for those who are not aware of it viewtopic.php?t=85045#p1366199

One question: Why did you give the Native a 30 incl. edge and did not sharpen one side at 15 and just remove the burr on the other? Don´t you do it along that lines usually? (I certainly do (though sometimes 20 instead of 15 and assumed most others would too with SE)

I've gone back and forth with doing 30 inclusive and other times trying to sharpen the back side as close to zero (or at least flat against the blade grind) and I guess laziness sometimes gets the best of me. 30 inclusive is also a good starting point that any of us with a Sharpmaker can match, afterall this isn't just MY experience, I welcome everyone to contribute to this thread, it's a group effort. I feel like for this particular test it would be better for consistency to do 30 inclusive instead of asking others to sharpen flat against the back of the blade and deface their knives.

ladybug93 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:48 pm

Evil D wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:58 pm

The bad news is the plain edge at the tip is really steep, something above 20 degrees. I noticed the rods were hitting on the shoulder on the 30 slots so I moved to the 40 slots and it still hits the shoulder. This kinda sucks, it's kinda tricky to reprofile just that PE section. I may do it on my Edge Pro. For now I just freehanded the front side to remove the burr. The cutting performance I'm looking to explore in this thread is regarding the serrations anyway.

this is the same thing that happened with the ayoob sprint. i think that's why there's such a snaggletooth on some copies, because the two bevels don't meet in the right spot on the serration pattern. i've yet to reprofile my pe portion because i don't have time to sit there and do it. it's a shame they don't pay enough attention to that forward pe section to make the bevel match.

I noticed that too on my Ayoobs. It's a real bummer but I'm still very happy with the rest of the bevel. Of course I'd love for the whole thing to be a consistent angle but having the serrations ground lower than 15 is pretty fantastic. My latest Autonomy and Autonomy 2 are like this as well so whatever they're going in Golden I hope they keep doing it (and also look into that PE angle).

Thanks for taking the time to document your experience. Really looking forward to the PE version but it's nice to see what the SE is all about.

Evil D wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:00 pm

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:37 pm

Man, I am sooo looking forward to this!! - your Caribbean torture test thread is still one of the best and coolest on this forum (I may share a link to that thread for those who are not aware of it viewtopic.php?t=85045#p1366199

One question: Why did you give the Native a 30 incl. edge and did not sharpen one side at 15 and just remove the burr on the other? Don´t you do it along that lines usually? (I certainly do (though sometimes 20 instead of 15 and assumed most others would too with SE)

I've gone back and forth with doing 30 inclusive and other times trying to sharpen the back side as close to zero (or at least flat against the blade grind) and I guess laziness sometimes gets the best of me. 30 inclusive is also a good starting point that any of us with a Sharpmaker can match, afterall this isn't just MY experience, I welcome everyone to contribute to this thread, it's a group effort. I feel like for this particular test it would be better for consistency to do 30 inclusive instead of asking others to sharpen flat against the back of the blade and deface their knives.

Thanks, makes sense! /

And I´d like to join the group effort, but not with a Native - as much as I think it is probably the coolest looking Spydie out there and certainly a great folder, the platform itself practically and functionally speaking does not really do it for me personally.
I´ll join at the latest when they bring out the first Manix 2 LW FULLY SERRATED, and that in magnacut!

But I am grateful you and hopefully some more folks are willing to do this for us!

Evil D wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:03 pm

ladybug93 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:48 pm

Evil D wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:58 pm

The bad news is the plain edge at the tip is really steep, something above 20 degrees. I noticed the rods were hitting on the shoulder on the 30 slots so I moved to the 40 slots and it still hits the shoulder. This kinda sucks, it's kinda tricky to reprofile just that PE section. I may do it on my Edge Pro. For now I just freehanded the front side to remove the burr. The cutting performance I'm looking to explore in this thread is regarding the serrations anyway.

this is the same thing that happened with the ayoob sprint. i think that's why there's such a snaggletooth on some copies, because the two bevels don't meet in the right spot on the serration pattern. i've yet to reprofile my pe portion because i don't have time to sit there and do it. it's a shame they don't pay enough attention to that forward pe section to make the bevel match.

I noticed that too on my Ayoobs. It's a real bummer but I'm still very happy with the rest of the bevel. Of course I'd love for the whole thing to be a consistent angle but having the serrations ground lower than 15 is pretty fantastic. My latest Autonomy and Autonomy 2 are like this as well so whatever they're going in Golden I hope they keep doing it (and also look into that PE angle).

same. the teeth on my ayoob are great and the grind angle is very slicey.

Josh Crutchley wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:11 pm

Thanks for taking the time to document your experience. Really looking forward to the PE version but it's nice to see what the SE is all about.

I started to say PE MagnaCut has already seen a good bit of testing from the mules, but apparently there was some heat treat tweaking that happened between the mule and this Native, so doing some PE tests isn't a bad idea. I'd love for someone to get some hardness tests done to see how they compare.

Evil D wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:21 pm

I started to say PE MagnaCut has already seen a good bit of testing from the mules, but apparently there was some heat treat tweaking that happened between the mule and this Native, so doing some PE tests isn't a bad idea. I'd love for someone to get some hardness tests done to see how they compare.

Yeah I'm curious to see how far they pushed the HT on the new stuff. From the Shot Show video it sounds like Spyderco is looking to improve HT across the board. That's got me really excited for what's to come since I was already impressed with their current HTs.

Ok really interesting observation, I've been sitting here looking at the light reflect off the bevel and it really looks like the bevel itself is hollow ground.

I've been comparing the way the reflection looks to other SE bevels and I can't make any of them reflect light like this. The bevel itself also seems to be a much finer grit or smoother finish like it was ground by a higher grit wheel.


Same chair, same seating position, same light source.

Evil D wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:47 pm

Ok really interesting observation, I've been sitting here looking at the light reflect off the bevel and it really looks like the bevel itself is hollow ground.

I've been comparing the way the reflection looks to other SE bevels and I can't make any of them reflect light like this. The bevel itself also seems to be a much finer grit or smoother finish like it was ground by a higher grit wheel.


Same chair, same seating position, same light source.

If the bevel is hollow ground, they must have ground the edge with a very small wheel. I can't imagine that a hollow grind at the bevel alone would be any advantage, especially when it comes time to resharpen.

Jim

I was under the impression that serrations/bevels are ground with wheels and that actually most/all of Spyderco's bevels are slightly hollow. Mine seem to be.

I suspect its more obvious the wider the bevel, but if you do some light passes on stones with a factory bevel, it should hit the shoulders and apex first. That's what happened with my serrated Swick 5, which also has pretty thin geometry that continues somewhat consistently onto the plain edge tip. The factory bevels on all of my Spydercos, including the 15V manix, indeed all appear slightly hollow to my eye.
I don't know exact angles and don't have any pics right now, though.
I could also be mistaken.

James Y wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:03 pm

Evil D wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:47 pm

Ok really interesting observation, I've been sitting here looking at the light reflect off the bevel and it really looks like the bevel itself is hollow ground.

I've been comparing the way the reflection looks to other SE bevels and I can't make any of them reflect light like this. The bevel itself also seems to be a much finer grit or smoother finish like it was ground by a higher grit wheel.


Same chair, same seating position, same light source.

If the bevel is hollow ground, they must have ground the edge with a very small wheel. I can't imagine that a hollow grind at the bevel alone would be any advantage, especially when it comes time to resharpen.

Jim

There has been interesting discussion about this, mostly brought to my attention by BBB.

Cl1ff wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:25 pm

I was under the impression that serrations/bevels are ground with wheels and that actually most/all of Spyderco's bevels are slightly hollow. Mine seem to be.

I suspect its more obvious the wider the bevel, but if you do some light passes on stones with a factory bevel, it should hit the shoulders and apex first. That's what happened with my serrated Swick 5, which also has pretty thin geometry that continues somewhat consistently onto the plain edge tip. The factory bevels on all of my Spydercos, including the 15V manix, indeed all appear slightly hollow to my eye.
I don't know exact angles and don't have any pics right now, though.
I could also be mistaken.

Yeah.... I knew that

I guess like you said, it may just be more visible here. These do seem like wider bevels than most, even being as thin as they are at the edge. I can actually put a flat edge onto the bevel and see light shining underneath it but it's impossible to hold and take a picture of at the same time.

Hey EvilD,

Great thread, Mine arrives either Sat or Sun.

I'll post some factory fresh pics.

As for the Chisel ground PE tip I use the Cats eye rods on my Gauntlet CBN & Ceramic to work it out. there was a good video of a guy changing the was he uses the sharp maker depending on the blade shape, not just going up and down but making sure the blade is always in full contact with the rod and never letting the tip come off the road during the stroke to prevent rounding.

After learning that my gauntlet sharpening took off like crazy, essentially not just up and down straight arming it but moving your arm / shoulder to keep the blade on the rod as its geometry changes.

Evil D wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:58 pm

.....
The good news is the serrations are ground quite thin, meaning you can micro bevel and begin sharpening on the 30 degree slots. I can not express how much I appreciate this and I hope Spyderco are doing this on purpose. It eliminates the need to reprofile a brand new knife and is absolutely a blessing. Please do this more!
.....

My UKPK in LC200N had this too. But I went the other way and put something under the sharp maker to match the angle.
Bought the knife a year ago. This would indicate, that it really is on purpose. Or maybe it is a Golden thing.

Yes the tip did take some time to get to 30, but I took hollow grind out if the bevel too. Magnacut is a joy to sharpen and gets crazy sharp, but time will tell how on edge retention.

Can't wait for the spyderedge Millie. I hope and pray they grind them as thin as possible bte. I hope Sal reads this !