Spyderco Forums

First and foremost, I have many Liner Lock and Back Lock knives that I absolutely love, but they could be better!

I’m also going to include RIL as well, or any other lock that requires you to put your fingers in the way of a closing blade. They all have that extra step after disengaging the blade of “are my fingers in the right place.” I don’t care who you are, we’ve ALL cut ourselves closing one of these locks, and we even saw Eric do it with the Siren. I know many of you got a Military, Delica or Endura as your first knife and feel the need to defend your first love, but it’s time to move on.

Which brings me to the preferred locks, the CBBL, Comp Lock and variations of each. They are smooth, quick, effortless, less painful and satisfying for the fidgeters. I know the excuses; “but I can’t operate it with a boxing glove on” or “a Back Lock is stronger.” If you’re in those situations you should probably be using a fixed blade.

There is a reason why the Manix, PM2, Para 3 and Shaman are huge successes, the lock! The same reason they are making a Military 2, people are tired of the Liner Lock. Why Spyderco hasn’t done more with the CBBL is beyond me, it is perfection.

In the end I feel the Liner Lock and Back Lock are outdated and just need to move over and let the new guys run the show!

Don’t hate me, just getting things off my chest.

Variety is the spice of life.

You are free to have your opinion. No hate.

I disagree. I prefer backlocks. I also like CBBL and comp locks. I don't especially like liner locks. I like the framelock on my Chef, but don't want more.

Hans is right too. Variety is nice.

If you don't like back locks and liner locks, you don't have to buy them.

Jim

I love this topic!

I love the CBBL, but man is it hard to actuate. I love the comp lock, especially with a wider locking tab. I love backlocks, but I can close the, reliably with one hand. I used to hate liner locks, but then I got a Militay (thanks Rick!). I love the RIL. Oh man, do I love the RIL.

As long as it’s a good example of the lock, the rest is just skill.

I have the opposite thought. Liner locks have a very strong detent and they're easy to operate with gloves on. None of the other locking systems have both of these advantages. Back locks and axis locks both have a weak detent (haven't tried a CBBL yet). I have trouble using compression locks with gloves on.

I have one really well made liner lock flipper (brous T4). The detent is ridiculously strong and the lock is effortless to use. Admittedly the aluminium handle also makes it feel like it's going to fly out of my hand when I flip it. I sometimes find myself wishing my PM3 was as easy to close.

I don't see any issue with hand in the slicing path on a well designed knife. With all of spyderco's backlocks (aside from the ayoob) I just naturally want to put my fingers in a safe place when closing the knife one handed. Most liner locks have a tab that hits your finger before the blade.

Great to have different opinions for sure, but in the end that is what they are, opinions. Why, because we all have different use cases, different preferences, and different bodies that work better or worse with different knife designs.

I have seen some very good arguments for liner locks, and yes operating with gloves is a big deal for some, and to call that irrelevant would merely be ignorant. That doesn't mean you have to like liner locks, it just means others have a legitimate reason for liking them. Even liking a lock "just because" is a legitimate reason in my book, because if that knife is making you happy, then I'd say it is doing it's job regardless of whether you can quantize why.

I for one have never found liner locks the least bit hazardous to close when operated safely. Every knife has to be handled in a specific way to be safe anyway, even a fixed blade, and I don't think the use of a liner lock makes a knife apparently more dangerous than folding blades are by nature. I have never cut myself due this locking mechanism.

I think as a company, Spyderco has plenty of knives that satisfy our many lock preferences, which is part of what makes them great. If you like comp locks and ball bearing locks Spyderco delivers great models! If you like backlocks, they have a variety! To ditch older locks just because newer locks provide some advantages would be to ignore that Spyderco has a diverse customer base that has many needs.

i think the cbbl is one of the best. i like that it's completely ambidextrous and very strong. the lockup is also solid. i have seen people complain about being difficult to operate due to arthritis or other issues with hand strength.

the comp lock is great too, but it's crap if you're left handed. it has also caused hot spot problems for people who need to grip their knives hard during heavy use and for prolonged periods.

liner and frame locks aren't my favorite. i've definitely cut myself on a spyderco liner lock when the knife caught on and then slipped past the detent and into my thumb.

the backlock is great for simplicity and security. i like it on salts for that reason. like the cbbl, it's also completely ambidextrous, so that's a bonus too.

at the end of the day, they're all good, but for different reasons. i wouldn't let a less-preferred lock deter me from a good design, unless i was left handed and the knife was only offered with a comp lock or liner lock. i definitely agree about the cbbl though and i'd like to see some more designs with it.

I have cut myself a few times when compression locks have come open in my pocket. That's dangerous because it is unexpected. Easy cure - don't carry them loose in a pocket and don't carry one if you are on a motorcycle or a horse. I think the whole fingers in the way of the blade thing is just silly. If you can't manage that you probably shouldn't be playing with sharp things. The lockback is the safest lock as far as I'm concerned because it has the strongest self close bias.

Dan

vandelay wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:43 pm

(haven't tried a CBBL yet)

the axis lock always felt like a cheap toy to me. cbbl has a stronger spring and is more difficult to use, but feels a lot nicer in my opinion.

Scandi Grind wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:47 pm

I for one have never found liner locks the least bit hazardous to close when operated safely.

It depends on the knife. I'd be nervous handing anyone a liner lock where the blade will hit your thumb while unlocking. When you put pressure on the blade while unlocking, it can snap forward.
I have a Buck 417, for example, and I always warn people if I hand it to them. Maybe I'm being paranoid but if someone doesn't realise they can get cut while unlocking it, they could easily close it on their thumb.

R100 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:51 pm

I have cut myself a few times when compression locks have come open in my pocket.

well that's a new paranoia I'm picking up :)

ladybug93 wrote:

vandelay wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:43 pm

(haven't tried a CBBL yet)

the axis lock always felt like a cheap toy to me. cbbl has a stronger spring and is more difficult to use, but feels a lot nicer in my opinion.

I'm hopeful CBBL is better because I want the CPM-15V Manix. Based on how it works, I'm just not expecting liner/comp lock style blade retention. My ideal knife would only come open when I want it to.

ladybug93 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:50 pm

....

the comp lock is great too, but it's crap if you're left handed.

...

Hey LB, just letting it out here that as a lefty, I love comp locks, once you know how to actuate them left-handed they're not bad at all

ladybug93 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:54 pm

vandelay wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:43 pm

(haven't tried a CBBL yet)

the axis lock always felt like a cheap toy to me. cbbl has a stronger spring and is more difficult to use, but feels a lot nicer in my opinion.

I agree. I once thought Axis locks were superior to CBBLs because of the lighter spring, it made them more "fidgety".

Until the time (actually, several times) that a BM has accidentally opened in my pant pocket due to the thumbstud snagging, combined with the light Omega spring. Good thing I've always managed not to injure my hand, but I rarely carry BMs nowadays because of that.

vandelay wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:43 pm

I have the opposite thought. Liner locks have a very strong detent and they're easy to operate with gloves on. None of the other locking systems have both of these advantages. Back locks and axis locks both have a weak detent (haven't tried a CBBL yet). I have trouble using compression locks with gloves on.

....

Respectfully, I don't see how one can consider back locks to have weak detents. It's the lock with the most close bias of all the locks. It's the most "doesn't come open in your pocket" of all the locks.

vandelay wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:04 pm

R100 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:51 pm

I have cut myself a few times when compression locks have come open in my pocket.

well that's a new paranoia I'm picking up :)

ladybug93 wrote:

vandelay wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:43 pm

(haven't tried a CBBL yet)

the axis lock always felt like a cheap toy to me. cbbl has a stronger spring and is more difficult to use, but feels a lot nicer in my opinion.

I'm hopeful CBBL is better because I want the CPM-15V Manix. Based on how it works, I'm just not expecting liner/comp lock style blade retention. My ideal knife would only come open when I want it to.

backlocks and cbbl don't have a detent, but they are biased to close. when they start to open, they will close on their own until you get past a specific point. detent knives won't close on their own once you overcome the detent. some people think they're safer for this reason. personally, it's not something i'm concerned with, but it is definitely a feature that cause many people to prefer the backlock or cbbl over the comp lock or liner lock.

and cjk just beat me to it.

I think the OP makes valid points.

Yes, I've cut myself with a (non-Spyderco) liner lock that failed in use. (Never yet while closing a backlock.)

R100 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:51 pm

I have cut myself a few times when compression locks have come open in my pocket. That's dangerous because it is unexpected. Easy cure - don't carry them loose in a pocket and don't carry one if you are on a motorcycle or a horse. I think the whole fingers in the way of the blade thing is just silly. If you can't manage that you probably shouldn't be playing with sharp things. The lockback is the safest lock as far as I'm concerned because it has the strongest self close bias.

Dan

A liner lock and compression lock both use the exact same blade detention system, a ball detent on the liner. The danger of the blade opening in pocket is equal on the two locks.

Also, you don’t have to acknowledge your fingers being in the path of a free swinging blade as dangerous but physics just isn’t on your side.

I’ve been part of some discussions on this topic that have been blown way out of proportion, so I’ll just leave this here and bow out of the rest of this thread.

cjk wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:08 pm

vandelay wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:43 pm

I have the opposite thought. Liner locks have a very strong detent and they're easy to operate with gloves on. None of the other locking systems have both of these advantages. Back locks and axis locks both have a weak detent (haven't tried a CBBL yet). I have trouble using compression locks with gloves on.

....

Respectfully, I don't see how one can consider back locks to have weak detents. It's the lock with the most close bias of all the locks. It's the most "doesn't come open in your pocket" of all the locks.

Agreed

...and not to dogpile, just to be persnickety-- most backlocks don't have any detents at all. Backspring pressure and tang cam geometry apply the self-closing force.

cjk wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:08 pm

vandelay wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:43 pm

I have the opposite thought. Liner locks have a very strong detent and they're easy to operate with gloves on. None of the other locking systems have both of these advantages. Back locks and axis locks both have a weak detent (haven't tried a CBBL yet). I have trouble using compression locks with gloves on.

....

Respectfully, I don't see how one can consider back locks to have weak detents. It's the lock with the most close bias of all the locks. It's the most "doesn't come open in your pocket" of all the locks.

with a strong liner/comp lock detent, I probably would have shattered femurs long before the lock came open in my pocket. back locks have a good amount of snap back but them being able to pop open and snag on something is a little worrying.

I see your point, but I think you're underestimating how strong a detent can be.

Mushroom wrote: A liner lock and compression lock both use the exact same blade detention system, a ball detent on the liner. The danger of the blade opening in pocket is equal on the two locks.

That's not entirely true. Something loose in your pocket could depress the compression lock tab while that's not really possible with a liner lock. I would have thought that was paranoia before reading R100's post.