Let’s face it Liner Locks and Back Locks suck!

[Naperville]

I prefer back-locks and frame locks. I don't even buy liner-lock knives.

a lot of liner locks are almost as thick as frame locks, at least when it comes to spyderco liner locks. as much as you like big knives, i would think you'd really enjoy the resilience. it's a good liner lock with a fairly thick liner.

Want to hear a goofy one....

A year or so ago when all of the knife channels were covering blades closing under light pressure on the back of blades, I had this brand new ZT 450 ZDP-189 Factory Custom frame lock. I was so sure that the knife would not fail yet I decided to place the absolute lightest pressure on the back of the blade while I had a vice like grip on the knife. That knife shut so fast and it got me really bad. I was bleeding and thinking to myself, the human body is a wonderful thing yet here I am bleeding like I was just in mortal combat!



I had blood all over the place. On my desk, on my white t-shirt, on my shorts, down my legs and on my white socks! I was laughing and it was vigorously coming out. I grabbed a towel and managed to get it stopped.

I SOLD THAT KNIFE! First I sent it back to ZT to fix it under warranty, which they did. But I never trusted any folding knife after that.

Folding knives to me now are a necessary evil, and they will bite you eventually. I carry them because I like them, but you must know where the tip and blade are at all times. And I still test them with very light pressure on the back of the blade. You need to know what it is you have in your hand.

Never been bitten by a fixed blade. I am sure my day will come though.

[StuntZombie]

I think back locks and liner locks are pretty great. Ambidextrous, strong and reliable. Funnily enough, the right-hand Military is probably the most lefty friendly liner lock ever. They work fine with gloves and can be closed well with poor fine motor skills.

Compression locks are another story. I probably dropped and cut myself with my compression lock knives more than all other locks combined before I gave up and moved to other locks. Just don't work for this lefty.

I understand the intention of this thread (here's the attention you ordered) but wanted to weigh in anyway. Liner Locks and Back Locks Rock!

Funny thing is, I always thought the Compression lock was better suited for left handed users than right handed. I always preferred using my left thumb to disengage the lock, then push the blade closed with my index finger.

[vandelay]

I never trusted any folding knife after that.

That's one reason I like choils and flipper tabs. Even if the lock fails, those provide a lot of resistance to the blade closing, which adds some safety.

[James Y]

I prefer back-locks and frame locks. I don't even buy liner-lock knives.

a lot of liner locks are almost as thick as frame locks, at least when it comes to spyderco liner locks. as much as you like big knives, i would think you'd really enjoy the resilience. it's a good liner lock with a fairly thick liner.

Want to hear a goofy one....

A year or so ago when all of the knife channels were covering blades closing under light pressure on the back of blades, I had this brand new ZT 450 ZDP-189 Factory Custom frame lock. I was so sure that the knife would not fail yet I decided to place the absolute lightest pressure on the back of the blade while I had a vice like grip on the knife. That knife shut so fast and it got me really bad. I was bleeding and thinking to myself, the human body is a wonderful thing yet here I am bleeding like I was just in mortal combat!



I had blood all over the place. On my desk, on my white t-shirt, on my shorts, down my legs and on my white socks! I was laughing and it was vigorously coming out. I grabbed a towel and managed to get it stopped.

I SOLD THAT KNIFE! First I sent it back to ZT to fix it under warranty, which they did. But I never trusted any folding knife after that.

Folding knives to me now are a necessary evil, and they will bite you eventually. I carry them because I like them, but you must know where the tip and blade are at all times. And I still test them with very light pressure on the back of the blade. You need to know what it is you have in your hand.

Never been bitten by a fixed blade. I am sure my day will come though.

A few years back, there were discussions on BF about lock failures, with not much pressure, on ZT frame locks.

Jim

[ladybug93]

these stories always blow my mind. i've used some crappy liner locks and only ever had one fail on me. even that was my own fault because i didn't flip the knife open hard enough for the lock to fully engage. i've never had any knife close on me.

[Iktomi]

these stories always blow my mind. i've used some crappy liner locks and only ever had one fail on me. even that was my own fault because i didn't flip the knife open hard enough for the lock to fully engage. i've never had any knife close on me.

It is noteworthy these days if it happens. Liner locks feel flimsy to me even though they’re obviously pretty solid. Frame locks I do worry I’ll open in gripping them.

[James Y]

these stories always blow my mind. i've used some crappy liner locks and only ever had one fail on me. even that was my own fault because i didn't flip the knife open hard enough for the lock to fully engage. i've never had any knife close on me.

Many years ago, I was at a Walmart and was considering picking up a Kershaw Vapor for $17. I asked to see a couple examples (they were not in clamshell packaging but were in knife boxes). I handled one, and decided to (very gently) test the frame lock. Holding it with my fingers out of the way, I used about as much pressure on the back of the blade as it would take to close a Swiss Army knife. The frame lock easily popped off of the tang, and the blade closed. I asked to see another sample of the same model. The exact same thing happened. I chose not to buy one.

Prior to that, I had thought that a frame lock “couldn’t” be accidentally unlocked. That day, I learned that there are levels of quality and reliability in frame locks.

The only frame locks I trust for their quality, consistency and materials are the ones on my CRK knives. And even those, I always pay attention when I’m using them.

To be clear, other than having had a Cold Steel Triad Lock knife close on my finger (when I stupidly tried to one-hand close it), I’ve never had a folding knife’s mechanism fail and close on me, including many years of having used “traditional” patterns and SAKs exclusively. But there’s always the possibility.

I recall a couple years back, someone posted about a manufacturing flaw in their CBBL (I think a Manix 2) that allowed the blade to close in spite of being open and locked. Before that, I had never thought that a CBBL would ever fail, at least not easily.

Jim

[bdblue]

I don't mind liner locks and I've owned a lot of them. I still own a Tenacious and multiple versions of the Military, among others, and I've owned other liner locks and RIL in the past.
I own a few lockbacks because they are hard to avoid but I hate that lock type. The only cut I've gotten from one of my knives, and it was a pretty bad cut, was from a lockback knife.
But yes there is a lot of variety and people can buy what they like, people have different reasons for what they like.
As for knives opening in a pocket, the worst ones I've seen were Benchmade and those particular ones I think were liner locks, but they had very light or no detent to keep the blade closed. I've never had that problem with a Spyderco knife or a Benchmade Axis lock knife.

[Naperville]

A few years back, there were discussions on BF about lock failures, with not much pressure, on ZT frame locks.

Jim

I am sure that it's more common for liner and frame locks than any other type of lock. I think the only liner lock knife that I have now is an Emerson Tactical Kwaiken. Hahaha, I like it because it LOCKS open it has such bad lock-stick. It also has very nice G-10, really gripy.

I have not bought a ZT in years. If they came out with a full TI 452, I'd buy one, but the 452s they currently make are carbon fiber. The carbon fiber they use is too thin and it interferes with a clean open unless your hands are just right on the grips. I gave my last one to my brother and he carries it.

[Makunochimaster]

i cut finger badly, closing the chaparral back lock one hand;
liner lock less dangerous;
Benchmade axis lock the best for me (and ambidexrous), why doesn't Spyderco make it?

[vandelay]

Benchmade axis lock the best for me (and ambidexrous), why doesn't Spyderco make it?

They make CBBL. It's similar in concept and also ambidextrous.

[Ramonade]

Back locks can have beautiful back sides too. For those that like back sides.

This shot makes me want a Caly 3.5.

I didn't really care for anything but the blade before that, so I decided to not buy it. But the backspacer and the "side cut" of the CF showing up is really sexy. I wish more knife makers would use this side on the show side (I bought some "side cut" carbon fiber a couple of days ago, it's so hot in the light)

[Ramonade]

I own SAKs and Opinels, the only times I cut myself is by being a moron. And I can do that with any lock, even with a fixed blade !

Fun aside, I'm a teacher and I can't write properly with anything but a fountain pen. I don't go out of my way to tell the world pencils and pens suck

[James Y]

A few years back, there were discussions on BF about lock failures, with not much pressure, on ZT frame locks.

Jim

I am sure that it's more common for liner and frame locks than any other type of lock. I think the only liner lock knife that I have now is an Emerson Tactical Kwaiken. Hahaha, I like it because it LOCKS open it has such bad lock-stick. It also has very nice G-10, really gripy.

I have not bought a ZT in years. If they came out with a full TI 452, I'd buy one, but the 452s they currently make are carbon fiber. The carbon fiber they use is too thin and it interferes with a clean open unless your hands are just right on the grips. I gave my last one to my brother and he carries it.

The only liner lock I still carry and use is the Military. I own 4 of them; the first one is an old 440V version bought new more than 20 years ago. IMO, the Military has the best liner lock, mainly due to the blade tang's gradual, concave lock mating surface. This seems to make it less prone to premature lock wear or lock slip.

Jim

[Bolster]

i've used some crappy liner locks and only ever had one fail on me. even that was my own fault because i didn't flip the knife open hard enough for the lock to fully engage. i've never had any knife close on me.

My beef with liner locks occurred when a mid-grade but still respectable brand liner lock failed under moderate pressure, jumped out of the trough, bent up and moved over into the scale area (!) allowing the blade to close and cut all four of my fingers (!). I complained to the mfgr, who sent me a hefty titanium framelock as a replacement. (Mfgr in this story was NOT Spyderco.) Have had zero issues with my one Spyderco liner lock.

[GarageBoy]

I own SAKs and Opinels, the only times I cut myself is by being a moron. And I can do that with any lock, even with a fixed blade !

Fun aside, I'm a teacher and I can't write properly with anything but a fountain pen. I don't go out of my way to tell the world pencils and pens suck

Pencils give you an excuse to use your knife, though.

Also, with respect to full liners, steel backspacers, and CF scales, "it's a beautiful thing" to quote Martha Stewart

[Naperville]

A few years back, there were discussions on BF about lock failures, with not much pressure, on ZT frame locks.

Jim

I am sure that it's more common for liner and frame locks than any other type of lock. I think the only liner lock knife that I have now is an Emerson Tactical Kwaiken. Hahaha, I like it because it LOCKS open it has such bad lock-stick. It also has very nice G-10, really gripy.

I have not bought a ZT in years. If they came out with a full TI 452, I'd buy one, but the 452s they currently make are carbon fiber. The carbon fiber they use is too thin and it interferes with a clean open unless your hands are just right on the grips. I gave my last one to my brother and he carries it.

The only liner lock I still carry and use is the Military. I own 4 of them; the first one is an old 440V version bought new more than 20 years ago. IMO, the Military has the best liner lock, mainly due to the blade tang's gradual, concave lock mating surface. This seems to make it less prone to premature lock wear or lock slip.

Jim

I've never had any issues with any Spyderco knives, no matter the lock type, steel, ...

I only carry my Spyderco Native Chiefs and "small" 4.5 inch(Bradford Guardian4) and 3.5 inch(RMJ Sparrow) fixed blades now. I can't see carrying anything else, but that may change.

I sold my S110 Military because I did not like the liner lock AFTER I bought all of the Native Chiefs and I plan to buy duplicates of the Native Chiefs where and when I can afford it if they are available. I have a substantial investment in Native Chiefs and plan to buy more. Excellent knife and I think the blade shape is the most perfect! The blade shape of the Native Chief to me, is one of the best blade shapes for self defense on the market. It is perfect, nearly symmetrical and offers little resistance to a thrust. I look for something that looks like it will penetrate with ease, leave a decent sized wound channel, and can be used for a slash. I'm no scientist and have never poked anyone or anything ever, but it looks like it can do the job.

As I get older(hitting 63 this year) the one thing that I wish the Native Chief had would be a handle more like the Cold Steel SR1, with Emersons gripy G-10. I think I have SR1 model right, I do not own one but I like the handle. It looks a bit more difficult to take away or drop out of ones hands. If I were turned lose in Sal's shop for a week that is what I'd be trying to get made...maybe a 4.5 inch blade too while maintaining the proportions that the knife currently has for height and length.

I guess that I have to buy some weights and start lifting a bit because grip strength is going out the window along with my body weight. Due to cardiovascular issues I need to lose weight. I started to lose weight in 2022, and I've lost 35+ lbs so far and am trying to go (from 235lbs) all the way down to below 170lbs in 2023.

[nerdlock]

i cut finger badly, closing the chaparral back lock one hand;
liner lock less dangerous;
Benchmade axis lock the best for me (and ambidexrous), why doesn't Spyderco make it?

In my experience, the Axis lock + thumbstud is the most dangerous lock of all. I've had several instances where the thumbstud of a BM snagged inside the front pocket of my pants and opened on my hand while taking it out of the pocket. Luckily I haven't been bitten so far, but that's the reason I rarely carry BMs these days.

[cabfrank]

That combo would be one of my last choices too.

[40mm]

This happened to me too many times as well. Ruined a few knives for me. I'm a back lock guy.

In my experience, the Axis lock + thumbstud is the most dangerous lock of all. I've had several instances where the thumbstud of a BM snagged inside the front pocket of my pants and opened on my hand while taking it out of the pocket. Luckily I haven't been bitten so far, but that's the reason I rarely carry BMs these days.
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