LC200n? What am I doing wrong

[S-3 ranch]

Ok this might sound ignorant?
Twice since December I have ruined 2 salt2’s LC200n blades
#1 I cut some black poly water line and rolled the serrated edge, and couldn’t get it back to working shape

# 2 has rolled its edge after I opened a few bags of rocks salt and 1 bag of cement

Did I buy the wrong type steel for ED ranch work ? Is vg10 or H1 better for me ?

These salt’s replaced my old G2 delica , and I didn’t seem to have the rolling problems with the delica .

[ladybug93]

pics?

those are some really abusive materials you're cutting. i've had my caribbean teeth roll on hard plastic straps, but the rolling wasn't irreparable. if you can sharpen serrations, it shouldn't be too bad to fix them.

how bad was the rolling?

[S-3 ranch]

pics?

those are some really abusive materials you're cutting. i've had my caribbean teeth roll on hard plastic straps, but the rolling wasn't irreparable. if you can sharpen serrations, it shouldn't be too bad to fix them.

how bad was the rolling?

Enough to see it and catch a thumbnail on the flat side

[Fly Fishing Rick]

Ok this might sound ignorant?
Twice since December I have ruined 2 salt2’s LC200n blades
#1 I cut some black poly water line and rolled the serrated edge, and couldn’t get it back to working shape

# 2 has rolled its edge after I opened a few bags of rocks salt and 1 bag of cement

Did I buy the wrong type steel for ED ranch work ? Is vg10 or H1 better for me ?

These salt’s replaced my old G2 delica , and I didn’t seem to have the rolling problems with the delica .

LC200n and H1 were designed for use in extremely corrosion prone environments like salt water and they excel at that but they have relatively poor edge retention in comparison to higher carbon steels. Out of the three steels you have mentioned, I would choose VG-10 over either of the others unless you encounter corrosive materials at work regularly or like to carry it to the beach.

[James Y]

This probably won't be overly helpful, but...

I've rolled serrations on my H1 Atlantic Salt a few times when they accidentally contacted something hard, like something metallic (example: staples in a cardboard box). The tips of the serrations that touched the staple(s) were visibly bent. I used my Sharpmaker to GENTLY work the serrations back to normal.

OTOH, I've done some hard cutting with my SE H1 Tasman, and the only thing I've rolled is the very tip. On another Tasman, the very tip broke off. But the teeth themselves never rolled. I suspect that the serrated edge is stronger on the Tasman than the Atlantic due to the hawkbill's concave edge.

I only own one SE LC200N blade, my UKPK Salt, but I mostly use it lightly, so I haven't rolled any of the serrations yet.

I've never rolled a VG-10 edge, but I think it would likely chip before rolling.

Jim

[Doc Dan]

I wish Spyderco would think about making some models with a 14C28N option for toughness and edge retention. I'm not saying replace the current steels, but offering this as a second option. The 13C26 upgrade has the toughness of 52100. I know I have it in two hunting knives and it performs well. Is it a super steel (so called)? No. However, it is tougher that all of them.

[Wartstein]

Never happened to me with my Salt 2 SE, and I tried and used it on many different, also harder, materials (but not precisely on what you (S-3 ranch) used it)

Now as I understand it LC200N is really though, a lot more than let´s say VG10 - so I could imagine that the exact same blade in many other steels would perhaps just have had broken teeth instead of rolled teeth?

[JSumm]

My anecdotal evidence with LC200N is that it tends to roll easier than any other steel I have. Now that is plain edge. No experience with serrated. I will also say, it is very easy to get it back to sharp compared to other steels. I would think that would be easier with Plain edge vs serrated. Don't know.

[Evil D]

I'd try sharpening it to a 40 degrees inclusive edge and see if that helps any. The stuff you're cutting is probably going to damage most edges, you're dragging the edge through what is basically a bag of gravel.

[Giygas]

I've only used LC200N in 1 model (Spydiechef) but I've owned 3 of them and my experience with all of them was underwhelming and basically in line with yours.

For the inevitable "knives aren't meant to cut open bags of cement" comments, I opened 38 bags with an s45vn Inkosi before any significant edge damage occured. Not saying that to compare s45vn to LC200N, that would be crazy. Just saying it to point out that plenty of steels can handle opening cement.

[Eli Chaps]

I'd go with plain edge in a tougher, easy to repair steel. I like a Manix 2LW or Para 3LW in BD1N or similar here. I'd run a little higher angle (~18-20dps) and thicker edge. I'd not personally go VG10 for this role. I like VG10 and although Spyderco runs it a touch soft, it can still be a little chippy in hard use. Nothing terrible though so if there was a knife design that fit you well, then go for it.

[Steeltoez83]

I like to carry multiple knives with different blade shapes. The little gerber is what I waistband carry bcuz of its small size and ease of carry. I like having options to pick from when cutting tasks are presented. The overall geometry of a utility razor will keep cutting long after its apex is destroyed.

[wrdwrght]

I’d say LC200N (which I have in five different and well-used Spydie models) performed exactly as this tough steel should in the uses you describe.

As David suggests, the hedge against rolling is a more obtuse apex.

That may necessitate more frequent sharpenings, but few steels in my experience have better sharpening response than LC200N. Maintenance-sharpening is hardly a chore compared to fixing a burr-prone roll, which, of course, is a nothing compared to removing chips in a harder steel.

So, how fracture-resistant is LC200N? I’ll sacrifice my ego to answer this question.

I was out in the yard a month or so ago taking down some tall weeds with my string-trimmer. In my pocket was a brand new Siren that Spyderco had just replaced owing to my original’s faulty lock.

I reached for it to clear some downed weeds that had wrapped themselves into the trimmer. With the trimmer still turning, I poked the blade against the spinning mass to break it up. Whack! The knife was thrown back in my hand. The tip had taken a serious impact (duh!).

The resulting gouge on the spine at the tip looked irreparable, that is, without taking off the tip. Fortunately, some of the displaced metal was the hyper-sharp edge of the spine.

As I took down the spine’s edge (I don’t care for such edges except on blades I rely on to throw sparks), the gouge became a dent and the tip looked more salvageable.

I succeeded in preserving the distil taper without losing even a single millimeter of length, and the dent is gone.

So, not only is LC200N quite fracture-resistant, being such, it is also quite workable. The combination makes it ideal for nasty work like yours, and stupid work like mine.

[navin johnson]

Tools for the task

Utility knife

[Bemo]

Hey thanks for having the courage to tell that story. I truly believe we learn more from stories like that than a lot of other stories.

[S-3 ranch]

Well , just got done taking the roll off the edge, with a diamond stick and flat ultra fine (2-3 hour job) , LC200n is fairly easy to work with as said above, next time it’s going to the spyderco beauty shop ! I am definitely ordering a new serrated edge Endela or native with bd1n or vg10
Cutting hay wrapping and strings, opening cattle cubes bags , is tough on a knife for sure and razor sharp and lite is mandatory for me

[vivi]

lc200n is 2x as tough as vg10 and bd1n according to larrins chart



Might be better off with PE too. Comes with a thicker edge and if it does chip, repairing it usually takes 10 minutes or less.

[dlum1]

You may want to check out a k390 seki model. The lc200n is tough, but partially at the expense of hardness. I use LC200N, but only when I need a zero maintenance stainless for light cutting. It rolls too easily for my use. K390 will have greater or similar toughness to s30v but at much higher hardness. I have yet to chip my k390. However, it will rust if you don't oil it. Recently brought mine saltwater fishing. Oiled it before I left and had a few minor stains after 12 hours on the water. You also may be able to find a 20cv seki version. Extremely stainless, reasonably high hardness for good edge stability and wear resistance, but not so tough. Where lc200n will roll for a given force, more force will be required to deform 20cv (in which case it will likely chip). I haven't used serrated vg10 yet, but I believe it will resist rolling a little better than lc200n but will also likely chip once it deforms. Please let us know how the new steel performs compared to your lc200n.

[S-3 ranch]

lc200n is 2x as tough as vg10 and bd1n according to larrins chart



Might be better off with PE too. Comes with a thicker edge and if it does chip, repairing it usually takes 10 minutes or less.

It’s edge retention is sacrificed for toughness and corrosion resistance ?

[Fly Fishing Rick]

lc200n is 2x as tough as vg10 and bd1n according to larrins chart



Might be better off with PE too. Comes with a thicker edge and if it does chip, repairing it usually takes 10 minutes or less.

It’s edge retention is sacrificed for toughness and corrosion resistance ?

Not always but usually, generally the softer the steel the tougher the blade but also the less edge retention, but too hard and it can be brittle. The trick is getting the right balance between the 3 to fit what you intend to use the knife for the most.