First Sharpening?

[Fly Fishing Rick]

Hello, I'm new to the forum and to Spydercos but just ordered a FRN Chaparral and was curious about how y'all go about sharpening your new blades. I have a basic Lansky System(coarse - fine + x-fine) and a Sharpmaker but so far the only knives I've spent any time tinkering with are some ESEE fixed blades in 1095hc which also happen to be my hard use knives so I have not been too concerned with perfection. I know the Edge Pro is a popular option and I've seen it mentioned a lot for setting the angle you like but I'm unable/unwilling to spend $250+ on a new sharpener atm. I am curious, what would y'all recommend doing when the time comes to sharpen the first time? I've done FFG blades in the Lansky before but it's a pain getting them in there and then you're never completely certain it's square.

[TazKristi]

Hi, Fly Fishing Rick:
Welcome to our forum. Your Tri-Angle Sharpmaker should be able to handle your new Chaparral without any issues. I'm sure our members will have a lot of good advice for you.

We hope you enjoy your time with us!

Kristi

[vivi]

https://www.harborfreight.com/4-sided-d ... 92867.html



If I'm just sharpening a knife, I'll use the 300 grit side. I stop once the edge cleanly shaves, and I can run my nail down the length of the edge and feel it catch. I avoid edges that feel smooth when I do the fingernail test.

If I'm reprofiling the edge to a thinner angle, I reset the edge on the 200 grit side, then polish up on the 300 grit side.

These edges are more coarse than what most people run. I prefer them for a few reasons:

- They cut about 4x longer than high polish edges based on my testing. Evidence.

- They are faster to apply - less steps required

- They are cheaper to apply - a single $12 stone is all I use

- The edges are superior slicers vs polished edges, and don't snag like serrated edges can.

[p_atrick]

Let me preface this by saying, I'm not an expert at sharpening so feel free to discount all or parts of what I say. I like to think of sharpening as a set of skills where some are independent of your hardware and others are dependent upon your hardware.

• Independent - these are the skills you need no matter what you use. Things like forming an apex, reducing a burr, stropping, etc. Sharpening, no matte the hardware, uses these skills.
• Dependent - how you implement the above skills depends on the hardware you use. Your wrist angle holding a knife differs when using a SharpMaker and when using a water stone. People tend to think of sharpening through the lens of hardware, when it is really the independent skills that dictate your ability.

You already have good hardware. The only thing I think you should purchase is a jeweler's loupe so you can inspect your work. If you want to experiment with different edges, you can. Take a look at Michael Christy's YouTube channel, you'll see him hold his SharpMaker rods in his hand and sharpen that way. The SharpMaker really is a versatile system. Once you get a hang of the independent skills, the sky's the limit. Or, the rabbit hole never ends (depending on your point of view).

[Fly Fishing Rick]

Let me preface this by saying, I'm not an expert at sharpening so feel free to discount all or parts of what I say. I like to think of sharpening as a set of skills where some are independent of your hardware and others are dependent upon your hardware.

• Independent - these are the skills you need no matter what you use. Things like forming an apex, reducing a burr, stropping, etc. Sharpening, no matte the hardware, uses these skills.
• Dependent - how you implement the above skills depends on the hardware you use. Your wrist angle holding a knife differs when using a SharpMaker and when using a water stone. People tend to think of sharpening through the lens of hardware, when it is really the independent skills that dictate your ability.

You already have good hardware. The only thing I think you should purchase is a jeweler's loupe so you can inspect your work. If you want to experiment with different edges, you can. Take a look at Michael Christy's YouTube channel, you'll see him hold his SharpMaker rods in his hand and sharpen that way. The SharpMaker really is a versatile system. Once you get a hang of the independent skills, the sky's the limit. Or, the rabbit hole never ends (depending on your point of view).

Thank you for the suggestion, I have a 30X and 60X loupe already and I have never been great at sharpening freehand, I probably just never wanted it bad enough. I even initially struggled with the Sharpmaker and 1095hc so it just sat on a shelf for years until last year and I am actually quite pleased with it now but I also have only been using the fine stones for touch ups on blades that won't strop sharp easy anymore.

[RustyIron]

what would y'all recommend doing when the time comes to sharpen the first time?

Good tools in the hands of a hamfist result in shoddy work. Mid-grade tools in the hands of a craftsman result in good work. Good tools in the hands of a craftsman result in good work, and he has a bigger smile on his face at the end of the day.

To maximize your smile, save your shekles and buy the Edge Pro. Since you're an aspiring Spydie Fan, you'll eventually end up with some Super Duper Steels, which will require diamond stones. I recommend the diamond matrix stones to go with your Edge Pro.

If you're looking to maximize your sharpening dollar, go with the Sharpmaker and get yourself some diamond stones to go with it.

[metaphoricalsimile]

https://www.harborfreight.com/4-sided-d ... 92867.html

If I'm just sharpening a knife, I'll use the 300 grit side. I stop once the edge cleanly shaves, and I can run my nail down the length of the edge and feel it catch. I avoid edges that feel smooth when I do the fingernail test.

If I'm reprofiling the edge to a thinner angle, I reset the edge on the 200 grit side, then polish up on the 300 grit side.

These edges are more coarse than what most people run. I prefer them for a few reasons:

- They cut about 4x longer than high polish edges based on my testing. Evidence.

- They are faster to apply - less steps required

- They are cheaper to apply - a single $12 stone is all I use

- The edges are superior slicers vs polished edges, and don't snag like serrated edges can.

Your video is poor evidence that the coarse edge is why you get better edge retention for several reasons.

1. It is an uncontroversial fact that lower edge angles result in *significantly* better edge retention, and you are comparing a factory edge angle with a ~20 degree inclusive reprofiled edge bevel.



2. You're comparing factory-fresh steel with steel that has not been affected by the heat of grinding.

3. You do not actually record/provide any numbers for the number of cuts that you're making nor for the amount of force needed to cut when you are checking for retained sharpness.

4. You're comparing purely slicing cuts, which should add a caveat to your results.

Now, I'm not saying you're *wrong* but what I am saying is that you have not provided sufficient proof that warrant your statement that coarse edges provide 4x edge retention. Especially since other people with more rigorous testing methodologies have shown that the opposite can be true, depending on the steel and type of cut.

Cedric and Ada Polished vs. Coarse edges series

[Shmohawk]

https://www.harborfreight.com/4-sided-d ... 92867.html



If I'm just sharpening a knife, I'll use the 300 grit side. I stop once the edge cleanly shaves, and I can run my nail down the length of the edge and feel it catch. I avoid edges that feel smooth when I do the fingernail test.

If I'm reprofiling the edge to a thinner angle, I reset the edge on the 200 grit side, then polish up on the 300 grit side.

These edges are more coarse than what most people run. I prefer them for a few reasons:

- They cut about 4x longer than high polish edges based on my testing. Evidence.

- They are faster to apply - less steps required

- They are cheaper to apply - a single $12 stone is all I use

- The edges are superior slicers vs polished edges, and don't snag like serrated edges can.

A friend of mine gave me one of these HF sharpeners as a gift years ago. I didn't know how to freehand (still don't) and didn't think it would be a good a idea to use what I thought was a very very low end tool to learn.
Now I come to find out that it can be used to put what some may consider the best type of edge on a knife.

[Big John]

https://www.harborfreight.com/4-sided-d ... 92867.html

If I'm just sharpening a knife, I'll use the 300 grit side. I stop once the edge cleanly shaves, and I can run my nail down the length of the edge and feel it catch. I avoid edges that feel smooth when I do the fingernail test.

If I'm reprofiling the edge to a thinner angle, I reset the edge on the 200 grit side, then polish up on the 300 grit side.

These edges are more coarse than what most people run. I prefer them for a few reasons:

- They cut about 4x longer than high polish edges based on my testing. Evidence.

- They are faster to apply - less steps required

- They are cheaper to apply - a single $12 stone is all I use

- The edges are superior slicers vs polished edges, and don't snag like serrated edges can.

Your video is poor evidence that the coarse edge is why you get better edge retention for several reasons.

1. It is an uncontroversial fact that lower edge angles result in *significantly* better edge retention, and you are comparing a factory edge angle with a ~20 degree inclusive reprofiled edge bevel.



2. You're comparing factory-fresh steel with steel that has not been affected by the heat of grinding.

3. You do not actually record/provide any numbers for the number of cuts that you're making nor for the amount of force needed to cut when you are checking for retained sharpness.

4. You're comparing purely slicing cuts, which should add a caveat to your results.

Now, I'm not saying you're *wrong* but what I am saying is that you have not provided sufficient proof that warrant your statement that coarse edges provide 4x edge retention. Especially since other people with more rigorous testing methodologies have shown that the opposite can be true, depending on the steel and type of cut.

Cedric and Ada Polished vs. Coarse edges series

You bring up valid points, but it's important to note that Pete's testing favors sharpness over aggression. While the blade is slightly angled as he executes the paper test, it is still a push cut. Since the mirror edge is more keen than the coarse edge, it starts out with an advantage when it comes to push cutting paper (a test that lends itself to apex width). Also, unless he has changed his testing (I don't watch all of his videos), he doesn't account for the direction of the grain of the paper, which adds another variable unaccounted for that affects when the test is concluded. If the test was ended by the amount of draw cuts it took the knife to cut the rope with exactly 2lbs of force being applied, it would change his results drastically. As you stated the type of cut matters immensely. In everyday use, I am usually slicing rope rather than push cutting it, and in those tests the knife with the coarse edge that "lost" to the knife with the polished edge will, for me, cut the rope with noticeably less force. This is absolutely a sharpness versus aggression issue, and unless the 2 are separated, the coarse vs polished debate will perpetually continue down a sub optimal path.

[metaphoricalsimile]

Yeah, I'm not trying to claim that Pete's testing is perfectly rigorous, far from it, and also thought I covered your point with the caveat "depending on steel and type of cut."

I have started to use a toothier edge on my own knives as well, so I'm well aware of the benefits and how the edge type changes the nature of cutting, I just hope to point out ways that people can improve their own knowledge and communication.