Seki City back lock quality in 2022?

[Michal O]

Does quality of back lock in Japanese Spyderco improved? Around 2008-2010, I bought Police SS and Endura 4 FRN, both of them got very disappointing vertical blade play very quickly, without even abusing it. Some guys who purchased Endura at the same time, had the same problem. So how is this these days?

I heard rumors that before 2000 quality of Spyderco with this lock was much better?

[Mister Coffee]

I bought around six Seki City Spydercos in 2021, all FRN. The fit and finish, including the back lock, on all of them is very good.

[VooDooChild]

Maybe your knives got some serious blade play issues but if not then Im assuming were talking about this...

Its called lock rock.
The lock is still functioning fine, its just that the mid-backlock design on the Seki knives seem to allow that little bit of play. It drives some people crazy and other people dont care about it.

For the record most "standard" backlock designs have this blade play, its just that certain designs that have very little play go unnoticed. Unfortunately many of the Seki mid back-locks have a very noticeable amount of play.

I wouldnt expect any difference. Its the same designs and materials as 10 years ago, and being made in the same place.

The backlocks coming out of the Golden factory (US made) seem to have much less play in the blade. (Much less noticeable lock rock.)

[phaust]

No changes

[olywa]

I've picked up 3 Enduras, 2 Pac Salt 2s, 1 Salt 2, 1 Atlantic Salt, 3 Dragonfly's and 1 Manbug in the last 18 months (and yes, I'm aware I have a problem). None of them had any lock rock whatsoever or blade play either. All had perfectly centered blades and I noticed no deterioration of fit & finish.

The only knock I can make is that all of them had frame screws that were barely snug. I'm talking every frame screw. Kinda odd considering that the clip screws were snugged down plenty tight.

I can live with this issue but it is now SOP for me to remove every screw on my new Seki knives, add a little blue loctite and snug 'em down. Add a couple drops of KPL to the pivots and they're good-to-go.

[JSumm]

I picked up an Endura about a month ago and it is solid. Still the same Endura 4 FRN, so doubt anything has really changed. Most of my Seki Backlocks are really great. I have only had noticeable lock rock on 2 Seki models. 1 of my 2 Endelas and the Rock Jumper. Seems like it is more rare to have it. I prefer to be able to test them in person when purchasing, but that is not always an option.

[James Y]

I bought my first Seki back locks in the 1990s, and here and there in the intervening time up to now. Overall, the ones I’ve bought most recently have had more solid lockup than the ones in the past.

As to some other aspects of more recent Seki production (sometimes screws not being properly loctited at the factory) might be another matter.

Jim

[dan31]

I would say that Seki has improved. Last few I have received feel tighter, more dialed in.

[James Y]

I might also add that when ordering knives, I do it over the phone, and ask the (approved) dealer to check the knife for certain pre-written things, one of which is solid lockup without any play. I’ve always gotten good samples that way, with any lock type.

Jim

[sal]

Hi Mister Coffee,

Welcome to our forum.

Hey Michael O,

We've been making mid lock-backs since 1981. It was a lock design that had a long history ( Harvey McBurnette, Al Mar, etc.). For a variety of reasons they are actually quite difficult to make. Our Seki Makers have continually improved them over the past 40+ years.

sal

[Michal O]

I sold or gave away for charity every backlock Spyderco I had. I regret only that I sold Police. But this knife had big lock rock, you could see actually blade moving on tip more than 1 mm up and down. Few other models I had in hands, were almost the same. It was more striking because my knives with triad lock are solid as rock, without or with very tiny blade play after years of use. That's why my Spyderco folders of choice have compression lock.

I'm considering some Spyderco with bl, maybe sprint C60, but after prices gone so high, this is something that bothers me. I tolerate small lock rock, but not 1 mm up and down, when with taxes, currency difference, knife cost me like for American customer buying custom frame lock on his local market.

Thank you all for response, especially Sal.

[VooDooChild]

I sold or gave away for charity every backlock Spyderco I had. I regret only that I sold Police. But this knife had big lock rock, you could see actually blade moving on tip more than 1 mm up and down. Few other models I had in hands, were almost the same. It was more striking because my knives with triad lock are solid as rock, without or with very tiny blade play after years of use. That's why my Spyderco folders of choice have compression lock.

I'm considering some Spyderco with bl, maybe sprint C60, but after prices gone so high, this is something that bothers me. I tolerate small lock rock, but not 1 mm up and down, when with taxes, currency difference, knife cost me like for American customer buying custom frame lock on his local market.

Thank you all for response, especially Sal.

The triad lock is a modified backlock and one of its advantages is that the stop pin will specifically eliminate (or reduce) lock rock. Thats why I said standard backlocks have some level of blade play, I was trying to not count the triad lock in the lock rock conversation.

[Manixguy@1994]

Every Seki I have purchased since April last year have been perfect, no complaints. MG2

[cabfrank]

Just out of curiosity, if the stop pin reduces or elimates lock rock, what are its disadvantages? I guess I'm wondering why the design wouldn't be implemented if it can solidify the vertical lockup.

[VooDooChild]

Just out of curiosity, if the stop pin reduces or elimates lock rock, what are its disadvantages? I guess I'm wondering why the design wouldn't be implemented if it can solidify the vertical lockup.

Arguably more weight, more space, and you are technically making the lock more complicated. Also with something like a salt series the less parts/stuff going on the better. Also the big issue, for as much as people dont like lock rock, it doesnt affect the ability of the knife to function. So you have to ask is it worth overhauling a design based on that. It really does seem to be a preference thing.

With that said I dont think theres really a disadvantage to incorporating stop pins into backlock designs. They may be harder to reassemble but thats about it. That and maybe increased cost.

If youre asking why the triad lock isnt implemented more thats because its cold steels lock. Spyderco does have some backlocks with internal stop pins though, Im not sure why we havent seen more of them.

[steelcity16]

95+% of my Spyderco collection is Seki backlocks made in the past 10 years. I have zero complaints and the only Spyderco I ever returned was one that had an uneven grind. Never have had any lock issues with Seki models. All are rock solid knives.

[Michal O]

Triadlocks made in Taiwan, aren't that expensive, and it doesn't affect weight or design. It's small element. I don't want to advertise another brand here, but you can find slim, cheap knives with that solution without problem. Anyway I don't expect from Spyderco to copy this thing, just asking if Japan bl is now close to bl from USA.

One guy in Poland once modified Stretch, if I remember correctly, by adding stop pin and making knife a triadlock like. Problem is that lock is protected by patent.

From my experience, another difference is that Endura lock is maybe less than 1 mm deep, while triadlock is about 3 mm deep into tang when locked. But I saw that Byrd series bl are deeper than 1 mm. Back to Endura, when you know it and have lock rock also, trust to that knife is very low.

There was also Chapparal with very solid looking bl, deep like triadlock. Wonder why this type of bl isn't more popular, at least in bigger knives.

Maybe because that Endura is so budget knife, lockup is different? My piece was old saber grind with foliage green frn.

[James Y]

For what it’s worth, I own a few American-made back locks (or lock backs) from a very famous, even iconic, American company whose name rhymes with “duck.” One has zero lock rock; the rest have various degrees of lock rock, and did straight out of the box. One small one has a great deal of lock rock when using cutting pressure; more than any Seki back lock I’ve ever handled. But it still functions, and has never come close to failing in use.

Jim

[VooDooChild]

Triadlocks made in Taiwan, aren't that expensive, and it doesn't affect weight or design. It's small element. I don't want to advertise another brand here, but you can find slim, cheap knives with that solution without problem. Anyway I don't expect from Spyderco to copy this thing, just asking if Japan bl is now close to bl from USA.

One guy in Poland once modified Stretch, if I remember correctly, by adding stop pin and making knife a triadlock like. Problem is that lock is protected by patent.

From my experience, another difference is that Endura lock is maybe less than 1 mm deep, while triadlock is about 3 mm deep into tang when locked. But I saw that Byrd series bl are deeper than 1 mm. Back to Endura, when you know it and have lock rock also, trust to that knife is very low.

There was also Chapparal with very solid looking bl, deep like triadlock. Wonder why this type of bl isn't more popular, at least in bigger knives.

Maybe because that Endura is so budget knife, lockup is different? My piece was old saber grind with foliage green frn.

The lockwell on the endura is a lot deeper than 1mm. So Im not sure what youre saying here. If you are referring to the lockbar sitting below the scale when locked up, that doesnt have anything to do with lockup, it can also be flush or above the scale.

Like I said, some people dont like lock rock, but the lock on the endura is perfectly functional and plently strong. I trust it as much as any other lockback.

[sal]

Hi Michael O,

The Triad lock is proprietary to Cold Steel.

We've been making The Endura in Seki since 1990 with the same maker. We have literally millions of them in the field. They have a very good reputation and we've been refining them for over 30 years. They are currently in their 4th iteration.

sal