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Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:22 pm
by Toucan
Many Spyderco models that come default with a stainless steel can also be had with a carbon steel. As either a sprint/exclusive or perennial option. It would be great if Byrd got in on the fun too, especially if they did it in the Byrd-style budget friendly way with old school carbon steels like 52100.
Idk if it's feasible with the makers, cost-wise, or if there is even a market for such a thing. But, wouldn't a 52100 Cara Cara 2 option be really cool?
I realize carbon steel is always a gamble for mass market knives, as many consumers see ease of rusting as a sign of inferior material. I suspect that the Byrd lineup is probably not targeting knife people who would tolerate extra maintenance of carbon steel. But a dude can dream.
Re: Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:45 am
by JonLeBlanc
I'm all for more 52100 (would really like to see it on a Delica).
Re: Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 12:18 am
by sal
I'll watch the thread. Unless we used a Chinese made carbon steel made for blades,the cost would more than likely go up, not down.
sal
Re: Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:12 am
by Toucan
Cursory research suggests that GCr15 is the Chinese analogue of American 52100. There seems to be a whole family of GCr15 variants with various amounts of molybdenum, silicon, and manganese added.
What are other Chinese made carbon steels that would potentially be viable?
Re: Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 12:57 pm
by sal
Hi Toucan,
I din't know. I haven't researched it. Thanx for the tip, we'll look into it.
sal
Re: Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:24 am
by araneae
I can't see an obscure steel bringing in sales to the Byrd line. Bohler K110 and DC53 are used in China and both are supposed to be slight improvements on D2 and have been used by a number of companies already.
Re: Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:53 pm
by z1r
I love carbon steels but to be honest, I think I'd rather see 14C28N. Just for a little more toughness and corrosion resistance. I tend to like to buy Byrds for knives that get tossed into a pack of some sort for emergency use. That said, for the value, I find the lineup fine as is.
But being the junky that I am, I'd probably snatch a Carbon variant if the price is right.
Re: Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:03 pm
by sal
Hi Z1r,
14C28N has considerably less Carbon that 8Cr. 25% less. We don't use steels with .6% carbon, except for scales and sometimes locks. We're looking into 19C.
sal
Re: Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 8:16 pm
by weeping minora
19C27 would be a great idea to look into, so long as the maker can adequately push the hardness for those interested in higher-performance budget options.
Re: Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 8:33 pm
by Josh Crutchley
sal wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:03 pm
Hi Z1r,
14C28N has considerably less Carbon that 8Cr. 25% less. We don't use steels with .6% carbon, except for scales and sometimes locks. We're looking into 19C.
sal
That's a shame you don't like 14c28n its one of my favorites. In Larrins testing it did better than BD1N in edge retention and showed high levels of toughness and corrosion resistance. Don't you use 12c27 that has .60% carbon?
Re: Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:17 am
by sal
We're using 12C27 in our Grasshopper Slip-joint that's made in China.
I don't have much experience with Sandvik steels. Each time I asked for samples, I never go them. Couldn't understand why. So we had a Zoom meeting with them a couple of months ago and got things sorted. Turned out that they didn't have the thickness I wanted as samples because most of their steel was rolled thinner for kitchen knives. so we've got some 19C on order that they are rolling for us. So we'll learn.
We think pretty highly of CTS-BD1N. We had a hand in it's creation. Larrin's testing is good and I have a lot of respect for him. But we like to do our own testing. If Sandivk steel will punch above it's weight, we'll find out. We don't see it as a competition. All good, just different. If we like it, we'll make it and see if you like it? We're not trying to push any particular steel. We're pushing the "cut", however we do it.
The byrd line and the value folders have their own issues. It was only recently that one/some of the makers invested in a modern heat treating equipment and this has permitted more opportunity for different steels. Like our coin says, "Never give up - Never back down - Never back up".
sal
Re: Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:45 am
by Josh Crutchley
sal wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:17 am
We're using 12C27 in our Grasshopper Slip-joint that's made in China.
I don't have much experience with Sandvik steels. Each time I asked for samples, I never go them. Couldn't understand why. So we had a Zoom meeting with them a couple of months ago and got things sorted. Turned out that they didn't have the thickness I wanted as samples because most of their steel was rolled thinner for kitchen knives. so we've got some 19C on order that they are rolling for us. So we'll learn.
We think pretty highly of CTS-BD1N. We had a hand in it's creation. Larrin's testing is good and I have a lot of respect for him. But we like to do our own testing. If Sandivk steel will punch above it's weight, we'll find out. We don't see it as a competition. All good, just different. If we like it, we'll make it and see if you like it? We're not trying to push any particular steel. We're pushing the
"cut", however we do it.
The byrd line and the value folders have their own issues. It was only recently that one/some of the makers invested in a modern heat treating equipment and this has permitted more opportunity for different steels. Like our coin says, "Never give up - Never back down - Never back up".
sal
Thanks for the detailed response. It makes sense to move on to other steels that are easier to acquire. I'll try what ever flavor you cook up for us, I've been impressed with 8cr and BD1N this far.
Re: Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:38 am
by z1r
Sal,
Appreciate the response and the reminder that various charts really only represent one data set. Looking forward to any additional steels that may be offered as they will be fun to test the edge on.
Re: Budget Carbon Steel for Byrd Lineup Variants?
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:17 am
by weeping minora
Data sheets are great and all, but there is no displacing experience. This is why we love Spyderco. Thanx much sal.