Best Spyderco as Back-up to CCW

[NASA50]

My last post concerned which Spyderco was considered the best "tactical" blade design - thank you to those that commented - As a result, I am now going acquire a Shaman next time they become available.

My follow-on question is ... which do you feel is the best "back-up" Spyderco when carrying a CCW ( where lawful of course ).

Hopefully, this topic is not too extreme for the forum ... sorry in advance if it is ....

Here I go, I was taught that when carrying a firearm, my "back-up" knife should always be carried on my "weak side" (opposite my firearm) .... with its main purpose - should I be in a close quarters (life or death) struggle with a "badguy" who was attempting to go for my firearm, that my knife would be deployed by my weak-hand as a "last ditch" option (whereas my right hand would be primarily protecting my firearm).

Again, I hope that this is not too extreme, but maybe it can serve to give thought to carrying and practicing deploying your Spyderco with your weak hand ... especially those who carry a CCW.

Right now, my every day carry seems to be my lightweight Para 3.

[Accutron]

Native Chief.

[ladybug93]

i would carry a matriarch 2 with wave opening. you can also get a ring to replace the backspacer and use it as a sort of karambit. but, especially for weak side draw, the wave function would be good and the matriarch is a mean defensive knife.

[VooDooChild]

Get a street beat and flip the clip on the sheath for left side carry.

[Mushroom]

I am by no means a self-defense expert but fortunately there are some very well trained individuals on this forum who may possibly share their knowledge. That said, here’s my 2 cents -

I would suggest a fixed blade, maybe the Ronin 2 or Nightstick.

For folders, Spyderco offers a few models that also have a matching “Trainer” model. The Delica, Yojimbo, and P’Kal are the first few that come to mind. Training could end up making the difference in a self defense situation.

[vivi]

I think any answer that isn't a fixed blade or waved knife is wrong.

I'd start by looking at the waved Endura, a zip tie mod Yojimbo or Yojumbo or Police, the Ronin 2 or one of the two Perrin bowies, the Street Beat and Street Bowie.

I don't carry knives for defense but if I did it'd be a waved Yojumbo or Police for a folder, and a Street Bowie behind my weak side hip setup for reverse grip if fixed.

[Bemo]

Very interesting question. I can't say what's right or wrong in this. I would tend to go with an autonomy 2 and get very stabby with it. But it's very contingent on your training and what you believe causes incapacity. I'm very interested to hear other folks' opinions.

[Accutron]

To practice consistent carry with a wave opener, you also have to practice consistent dress, and you need to have clearance behind your arm to deploy. Janich-style inertial opening is the best balance of speed and reliability, if you can master it. Barring that, a standard thumb opening is the most positive.

The Delica and Endura trainers are fine substitutes for any typical Spyderco in the 3-4" range.

[ugaarguy]

Not a Spyderco, but the Ka-Bar TDI. It's an angled fixed blade that gets around push knife laws. It was purpose designed as a weak side carry knife to defend against a strong side gun grab. Since it's a push knife that isn't, it also requires very little training - just grab it and punch with it.

For a Spyderco blade, the ARK is sweet little neck knife that you can access with either hand, and can go stay on you literally 24/7.

[Naperville]

My brother who was a Chicago Cop for 28 years used to carry one or two ZT 0452 CF that I bought for him while on duty in uniform. I found a fault in the opening of the knife and tried to get him to buy a Spyderco Native Chief but he balked. The problem with the ZT CF is that if you pinch the CF, the knife does not want to open....bad news if you need a knife.

He's too cheap to buy his own knives and that is his sticking point.

I might buy him a Spyderco Native Chief if I get caught up with bills.

[sal]

Hi Nasa,

What matters most, in my opinion, is that it's sharp and unused.

sal

[Spook410]

In what scenario would you deploy a knife as a backup to a firearm? If you feel your CCW requires a backup, carry a second firearm. Failing that, chemical spray so you can get away.

Of course, if you're actually curious which Spyderco would make the best 19th century weapon, then I would recommend the Spyderco Respect. The Darn Dao or Province also come to mind.

[spydergoat]

Waved Endura. If you happen to carry a Glock, there's a version available with a Glock tool.
https://www.lonewolfdist.com/PRODUCT/1076/lwd-at2/

[Soanso McMasters]

Native Chief.

In some locales the Native Chief, at over 4 inches, would be illegal. Always check local laws.

[Evil D]

I think you already asked this same question with the tactical question. They're basically the same answer, the same knives work for both roles.

[Jim Malone]

If you are fighting with a guy trying to get to your handgun you need a knife you can use one handed while clinching or rolling around on the floor. It would suggest a small fixed blade worn weak side front . If possible a push knife or a knife like the Southnarc clinch pick or a Bastinelli Anomaly. Or a Spyderco Perrin street beat . Something simple, one handed, easy to reach and useable under extreme stress ( think sewing machine stabbing in his / her unprotected side/ back, neck area) i highly suggest buying a trainer and practicing this with a partner. Then you will see if your system works. Remember that a ready to use blade at the front can make you vulnerable to BG's that grab your knife. Easy accesability works both ways

[Accutron]

Not a Spyderco, but the Ka-Bar TDI. It's an angled fixed blade that gets around push knife laws. It was purpose designed as a weak side carry knife to defend against a strong side gun grab. Since it's a push knife that isn't, it also requires very little training - just grab it and punch with it.

For a Spyderco blade, the ARK is sweet little neck knife that you can access with either hand, and can go stay on you literally 24/7.

The TDI is a decent suggestion, particularly for untrained users.

Neck knives have a lot of problems. Most importantly, they don't have a stable location on the body. I would not want to be fumbling with a neck knife while in the clinch with a badguy.

My brother who was a Chicago Cop for 28 years used to carry one or two ZT 0452 CF that I bought for him while on duty in uniform. I found a fault in the opening of the knife and tried to get him to buy a Spyderco Native Chief but he balked. The problem with the ZT CF is that if you pinch the CF, the knife does not want to open....bad news if you need a knife.

Self-interference on deployment is definitely a problem with some framelocks. The 0452CF is particularly bad for this, because it has a smooth, relatively slender handle with a wide lockbar. I've had better results with framelocks that have wider, textured lockbar-side scales.

In what scenario would you deploy a knife as a backup to a firearm? If you feel your CCW requires a backup, carry a second firearm. Failing that, chemical spray so you can get away.

Of course, if you're actually curious which Spyderco would make the best 19th century weapon, then I would recommend the Spyderco Respect. The Darn Dao or Province also come to mind.

Handgun retention, as already mentioned by ugaarguy. Pepper spray and huge bowie knives are contraindicated for this extremely common scenario.

In some locales the Native Chief, at over 4 inches, would be illegal. Always check local laws.

My alternate suggestions would be an Endura, PM2 or Delica, depending on restrictions.

If you are fighting with a guy trying to get to your handgun you need a knife you can use one handed while clinching or rolling around on the floor. It would suggest a small fixed blade worn weak side front . If possible a push knife or a knife like the Southnarc clinch pick or a Bastinelli Anomaly. Or a Spyderco Perrin street beat . Something simple, one handed, easy to reach and useable under extreme stress ( think sewing machine stabbing in his / her unprotected side/ back, neck area) i highly suggest buying a trainer and practicing this with a partner. Then you will see if your system works. Remember that a ready to use blade at the front can make you vulnerable to BG's that grab your knife. Easy accesability works both ways

Lots of good advice here.

[Michael Janich]

The firearms training community has an unfortunate tendency to address certain problems by repeating the same advice without necessarily backing it with any training or specific tactics. The "carry a knife on your non-dominant side" is a prime example of that.

Carrying a knife as a back-up weapon to a handgun makes perfect sense. If your gun suffers a catastrophic malfunction that can't be cleared in the middle of a fight, it gives you a true lethal-force backup, albeit a contact-distance one. If, or more likely, when, you eventually go someplace where you don't have CCW reciprocity, it's likely you could still carry a knife. And, in some circumstances--like an extremely crowded environment--a knife might be a better option than a gun because it's more selective.

With all that said, carrying a knife so you can draw it and employ it with your dominant hand makes the most sense. Carrying it on your non-dominant side because your strong side is your "gun side" severely limits your effectiveness with it.

For CCW handgun retention, focus on proper concealment and it's unlikely the bad guy will ever know your gun is there. Focus on proper tactics and don't ever "flash" your holstered gun to try to intimidate a potential threat. That announces the presence of the gun and could tempt a grab.

If a bad guy does go for your gun, have well-trained unarmed tactics to prevent the grab, first, and counter it, if necessary. Many techniques start with the idea you've already let him grab your gun. Prevent that if at all possible. If you can't, sound unarmed skills are quicker and easier to employ than drawing a knife. Here are some ideas that I shared in an article a few years back in "American Cop" magazine: https://americancop.com/handgun-retention-tactics/.

If you're committed to carrying a knife as a weapon-retention tool, you must be able to draw it with your non-dominant hand while already engaged in a gross-motor-skill tug-of-war with your other arm. That's difficult. A fixed blade on a static cord carry that is accessible to both hands is my preference. Draw it reverse grip and don't stab blindly with the "get the f*** off me" approach. Cut the body parts that allow him to grab your gun--his bicep and flexor muscles/tendons on the inside of his wrist. This article provides some insight on that: https://www.tactical-life.com/lifestyle ... retention/.

As far as choice of Spyderco knives, the Street Beat Lightweight and Ronin 2 would be my first recommendations. The ARK is very small for my hands and its sheath retention tab is extremely difficult to release in reverse grip.

Above all, whatever you do, get on the mat and validate your approach with some actual training. If you don't have a training knife that accurately replicates your actual carry knife, it's all theory.

Stay safe,

Mike

[Snacktime]

Best answer in a long time.

[The Mastiff]

For me it's whatever Endura I have in my pocket. The decades of Endura carry has given me a muscle memory that makes it the quickest deploying knife I have and that includes numerous autos. I try to do the same with carry firearms. I don't need or like waves and can get mine into use as quickly as I could the waved model. Faster actually.

Whichever you choose make sure it's use is second nature and can be done blind, with both hands, etc.