Best Overall Blade Design for Tactical Duty?

[NASA50]

My apologies if this has been discussed a million times before, I am sure it has, ... but here I go, I hope with a little original twist ... I have read, with great interest, the research/testing that indicates that a wharncliffe blade design such as Mr. Janich's Yojimbo family, offers superior cutting ability.

However, when I have had the opportunity to train with, and learn from, a few of our nation's 3 and 4 letter tactical/rescue teams, they seem to be carrying knives predominantly with heavy blades, such as; Strider folders and Winkler fixed blades, it was their general opinion that a true "tactical" knife, can not be delicate, as it may be used for other demanding tactical purposes, beyond just cutting, e.g., prying, etc. ... I often saw Tanto blade designs on their Striders.

I realize that one knife design can not be best at all things ... so here lies my dilemma ... if I can only carry one knife, what blade design should it be ... as of late my most frequent carry is the Para 3 ... as maybe this is the best compromise between my Strider Tanto and my Yojimbo ...???

Lastly, let me just say, when it is in my pocket - I like slim and lite knives... but when it is deployed, just the opposite ... I guess its just like RVs ... when you are driving and maneuvering on the road, small is better ... but when parked, bigger and roomier is better ... can't have your cake and eat it too !

Hummm on final thought ... maybe the Stovepipe ... or Canis ... is the answer (Thanks again to those that opened my eyes to the quality of the Taiwan made Spyderco knives - as I had previously not given these models a second look).


NASA 50

[VooDooChild]

The wharncliffes advantage is concentrated cutting power closer to the tip. While it does have advantages in self defense and a lot of utility in other scenarios, I dont consider it an "all around" blade shape.

It sounds like when you were talking about what you saw others carry, you were describing a robust general purpose blade shape.

I mean really, if it can stab and slash, it can be used for general knife tactics. At that point the other rough and tumble uses are going to come down to blade shape, grind, thickness, etc.

A saber grind drop or spear point can pretty much cover everything, even if its not as good a slicer. The endura 4 gives you this option.

[nerdlock]

Shaman? or even the Manix 2. The Paramilitary 2 (PM2) tanto could be another option. edit: Or the BladeOps Emerson Wave PM2 (but has been out of stock for a while now).

[Eli Chaps]

No one, especially a military member, should ever be carrying a Strider.

Sal, that's a footprint I'll muddy but move on.

I'm not much of a believer in knives for tactical defense so I'll bow out of that discussion.

[sal]

Hi Nasa,

The question becomes one of; digging and prying. If you feel you need a knife that you may need to do some prying, then a thicker bade would be an advantage. Some steels are stronger/tougher than others, but thickness will make the biggest difference. Digging with a knife kills the edge and shouldn't be done. A knife without an edge is not a knife.

You'll have to choose the compromise that works best for your preferences. I would suggest you look at the Shaman. I designed the knife to be a hard core tool.

Thanx Eli.

sal

[Wartstein]

I´d not underestimate the sabre grind versions of Delica and Endura in the scenario you´re looking at.

The low sabre grind makes them very strong, despite having not a really thick stock, and especially the tips are really robust.
When it comes to the blades alone, they are really "good" for prying and the like, as far as a folder can be good for that at all.

You could also consider the comboedge versions of both sabre grind Delica and Endura for your "tactical rescue" use.

[Michael Janich]

"Tactical" means different things to different people. In reality, it's when you don't have access to proper "strategic" assets and have to make do with what you have. Defining your mission and performance goals is the key to choosing the best compromise tool for the job(s) for which you want to be best prepared.

Stay safe,

Mike

[JD Spydo]

Well I guess you could say that I'm kind of prejudice with this particular subject. But we do have a new Sprint Run close to being released. I'm speaking of the C-60 Ayoob SprintRun. The C-60 Massad Ayoob model was made for "Tactical Duties" of all types and was designed by a firearms/self defense expert i.e. Massad Ayoob.

Also the C-60 is just as well loved in full SE as it is in plain edge. Please do take a closer look at this model. Not sure what your idea is of a tactical blade but you just could not go wrong with a C-60 Ayoob model. The overall design of the C-60 Ayoob is so ergonomic and is well adapted to just about any type of every day cutting job as well. It is primarily designed as a tactical blade but it is also capable of being an extremely efficient EDC folder as well.

A close second to the C-60 Ayoob model my pick would be any of the C-36 Military models with any of the supersteel blades. If the blade on the C-36 Military is too long for your liking then the Para2 would be next in line.

[JRinFL]

These questions are starting to remind me of someone else...


Anything less than an actual sword is a poor compromise for "tactical duty" needs.

[aicolainen]

Maybe it's just a language barrier here, but to me "tactical duty" is not a very specific use case.
As I'm used to encounter the word in my own country, there is usually a military context, but "tactics" and "tactical" is widely used across a number of disciplines and professions.

You mention tactical rescue teams as examples, but maybe a tactical rescue team is something other than what I associate with rescue work. Again, language..

I've been involved in rescue work (SAR) for ages, but context is important to understand your needs, so it's hard when I'm this lost...

To be honest, for most of that time I wasn't very interested in knives and usually used what was handed to me from the organizations I worked for. Mostly Morakniv, Bahco and Hultafors fixed blades.
Can't remember breaking any of them, but I lost quite a few.
When I got more into knives a few years back, I was quickly seduced by the Hinderer back story and all of that. But as I was about to pull the trigger on a XM-18 I got to think about the fact that I've lost so many through the years.
I decided to get a Pacific Salt instead, and later added a regular Salt 2, and after the LC200N versions were released I added a SE FFG Pac Salt 2 and a PE FFG Salt 2.
To my surprise I haven't lost any of them yet. Though I'm also less active than I used to, so that's part of the explanation.
The Salts are lighter, more affordable, easier to obtain and requires less attention/maintenance than a Hinderer. I've never regretted that decision, and have lost all interest in overbuilt, expensive "tactical" knives for recue work.

Part of my philosophy with knives (or any equipment) for rescue work now a days, is that I wont buy anything I can't lose on the very first assignment I bring it on, without getting upset about it. It has happened and it will happen again.

[wrdwrght]

Not to put too fine a point on it…but in an episode of NCIS, Ducky nicks an assassin’s brachial artery with a scalpel and the dude bleeds out before he understands what has happened.

As with firearms, placement [EDIT TO ADD: of a blade] is more important than the delivered tool itself. Getting the desired placement is the reason for training.

But, if I understand Michael Janich correctly, the Wharncliffe does solve the last (optimizing?) part of placing an edge [EDIT TO ADD: better than other shapes] (the first part, of course, is getting around the opponent’s barriers).

The placed [EDIT TO ADD: Wharncliffe] edge keeps the same force everywhere along its length; there is no dissipation of needed energy during a slash, as with a bellied blade. And Michael’s argument about what a placed YoJi/umbo point does on entry is also convincing.

Whether a Wharncliffe is the best blade-shape for general utility is another question, and an important one in the likelihood that such use will be its almost exclusive purpose.

My current wharncliffed Spydies do not encourage me to think of them as general purpose… But I’m verging on a Canis and/or YoJi/umbo to explore the matter further.

[Xformer]

To me tactical means the following : solid overall construction, fast deployment, multi-purpose blade and good ergonomics.

The Nirvana is (was) by far the best knife in that category hands down. It had a versatile blade and a bulletproof construction (felt like a fixed blade). Most people don't recommend it often because only a few had it (me included) and this forum is more interested in collecting stuff. R/knifeclub on reddit are fans of the knife for a reason.

Unfortunately, it's discontinued and an used one will cost you 1000+ at the bare minimum. The market knows

The Shaman is the closest I could recommend. It's bulkier and you have way less edge estate though. On the plus side, it's slightly more grippier thanks to G10, it's an ergonomic marvel and it costs less than titanium hard-use knives, which is always cool if you intend to use the knife hard. Its also designed by Sal Glesser himself, which I trust when it comes to pure utility.

Stay away from thin blade with fragile type ; Military, PM2, wharncliff (lol for real?)...

[benben]

Just went an dug this ole gal out, this blade shape to me screams tough tactical. I’m a huge fan of the wide leaf for everything, not just tactical.

[NASA50]

In my mind, "tactical" is as Mr. Janich said ... when there is not a single, clear and narrowly defined role, rather, the tool must be ready to perform whatever unforeseen task that happens to present itself...

One of my friends once asked me ... why do you only own "all wheel (4WD)" drive vehicles ? ( I do not live in snow country) ... I replied, I guess its because I always want to be prepared for whatever I may encounter ...

[benben]

In my mind, "tactical" is as Mr. Janich said ... when there is not a single, clear and narrowly defined role, rather, the tool must be ready to perform whatever unforeseen task that happens to present itself...

One of my friends once asked me ... why do you only own "all wheel (4WD)" drive vehicles ? ( I do not live in snow country) ... I replied, I guess its because I always want to be prepared for whatever I may encounter ...

And in my mind, tactical means a mall ninja that lives in his mom’s basement! So yeah, the meaning of tactical takes on lots of faces! Just messing with you, I get your point!

I’m not a “tactical” person but everyday I carry a knife that I’ll use for any needs I may encounter, whether it’s rescue, some kind of an emergency, to the mundane little things. And I’ll use this knife in any manner I need to use it, even it that includes breaking or destroying it. Sal will always sell me another one, that’s my tactical. So yeah, Mr Janich is absolutely right!

[Danke]

I think this one would match a lot of floors buttons in the ol' tactical elevator.

[TkoK83Spy]

Matriarch 2 with the wave opener, DLC...definition of a tactical folder in my eyes.

[wrdwrght]

Matriarch 2 with the wave opener, DLC...definition of a tactical folder in my eyes.

Not to forget in the eyes of South Africa’s women.

Said Sal on BF in 2001: “ It was produced to provide women in South Africa with effective defense. There is currently a problem with violence in South Africa, especially for women.”

[jegred2]

I´d not underestimate the sabre grind versions of Delica and Endura in the scenario you´re looking at.

The low sabre grind makes them very strong, despite having not a really thick stock, and especially the tips are really robust.
When it comes to the blades alone, they are really "good" for prying and the like, as far as a folder can be good for that at all.

You could also consider the comboedge versions of both sabre grind Delica and Endura for your "tactical rescue" use.

The Emerson Endela would be my pick for best out of the box “tactical” knife. Super fast deployment if you want that, with the same robust Sabre grind, and it has a thicker tip than the Sabre grind Endura’s.

[ZrowsN1s]

My apologies if this has been discussed a million times before, I am sure it has, ... but here I go, I hope with a little original twist ... I have read, with great interest, the research/testing that indicates that a wharncliffe blade design such as Mr. Janich's Yojimbo family, offers superior cutting ability.

However, when I have had the opportunity to train with, and learn from, a few of our nation's 3 and 4 letter tactical/rescue teams, they seem to be carrying knives predominantly with heavy blades, such as; Strider folders and Winkler fixed blades, it was their general opinion that a true "tactical" knife, can not be delicate, as it may be used for other demanding tactical purposes, beyond just cutting, e.g., prying, etc. ... I often saw Tanto blade designs on their Striders.

I realize that one knife design can not be best at all things ... so here lies my dilemma ... if I can only carry one knife, what blade design should it be ... as of late my most frequent carry is the Para 3 ... as maybe this is the best compromise between my Strider Tanto and my Yojimbo ...???

Lastly, let me just say, when it is in my pocket - I like slim and lite knives... but when it is deployed, just the opposite ... I guess its just like RVs ... when you are driving and maneuvering on the road, small is better ... but when parked, bigger and roomier is better ... can't have your cake and eat it too !

Hummm on final thought ... maybe the Stovepipe ... or Canis ... is the answer (Thanks again to those that opened my eyes to the quality of the Taiwan made Spyderco knives - as I had previously not given these models a second look).


NASA 50

As others have said the Shaman is built very tough. From a tactical perspective, you may want to put some grip tape on one side of the handle as I have seen some do. The smooth G-10 is great for EDC, but not all situations. If you're looking for inbetween an SNG and a Yojimbo that would be a good choice.

The Emerson Waved Endura is also a good choice. The saber grind and tip can handle some abuse. I've seen my friend do things with his that make me cringe, and it keeps on ticking. His only complaint was having to tighten the handle and clip screws occasionally, as his rough use tends to work them loose over time. I told him to use some loctite.

A Pacific Salt might be a candidate as well, H-1 is a tough steel, and it has a good hollow saber grind.

Mostly though I prefer Spyderco's for cutting tasks and carry a mini titanium prybar/flat head screwdriver for the other stuff. You give up a lot of cutting power for the knife that can wear all hats. I have an SNG, a Socom Elite, a dozen Emersons, they are built like tanks and don't cut anywhere near as well as a Police 4 or a Chief. The Shaman and Waved Endura are a good comprise though.