MagnaCut Long Term Impact?

[Eli Chaps]

Sorry if this has already been discussed (I didn't turn up a thread) but I can't help but wonder what the true long term impact of MagnaCut will be.

If you can get near 4V performance along with excellent corrosion resistance what will be the type of so many other steels? Understand, I don't chase steels for different steel sake. I like to find what works for me in a certan package for certain tasks and I'm good. But clearly, lots of folks do love grabbing up knives just because it's in a steel that maybe they don't have or it's in a model they like. And no question that Spyderco and others heavily target steel "mix-ups" in models through exclusives and such.

But, will those steels/combos still have the appeal once MagnaCut becomes prolific enough to be widely affordable? I mean, pretty much the whole "S" family of steels might be dismissed. H1 and LC200N will be threatened.

No matter what your thoughts are on the practicality of all the different steels' offered by makers, there is no doubt they capitalize on the marketing and people enjoy it. Will that thrill fizzle?

I'm just curious if this steel will have a deeper impact on the knife landscape than just a new steel.

Thoughts?

[spoonrobot]

The market demands new and more. If history is any indication, the long term impact will be similar steels that do one aspect better, or nothing better except having stronger marketing.

Remember, S30V was in MagnaCut's shoes once, and look how it's regarded now.

[Eli Chaps]

I understand what you're saying but I don't know that S30V was actually in MagnaCut's shoes. I mean, there was a ton of hype, but the stats behind it weren't nearly as impressive. People could pretty easily see it was just an advancement in certain aspects but nothing radically different.

MagnaCut is truly very different, especially if it is as easy to sharpen as I'm hearing. That's one of the key factors hat keeps a lot of people away from the high-hardness steels.

I know Larrin has some more irons in the fire and it'll be interesting to see what he pulls out but even MagnaCut's impact is just on steel it may well still change the direction of the innovation.

[Evil D]

I'm gonna say little to no impact at all, long term. Look at all the steels we've seen come to the knife parket in the last 40 years, but steels like 1095 still hang around even while being thoroughly obsolete by comparison to other steels. They all serve a purpose somewhere, they all still work. Look at how many similar types of steel there already are, none of them have managed to put the next one out of business unless the maker themselves decided to and that probably had more to do with other non knife uses that the steel was developed for.


Short term is where the impact will be. It'll eventually dominate the market and become a standard option like S30V has been for so many years. It's going to be a household name in the knife world in just a few years, watch and see.

[Mushroom]

I’ve wondered the same thing myself. This is not what I believe but I’ve actually been told that all other steels are irrelevant now that Magnacut exists.

Personally, that’s not something I believe but I don’t know enough about steel chemistry to say otherwise right now. I have a basic enough understanding of things to competently follow along with certain discussions about steel chemistry but I’d be in way over my head if I had to personally argue about it.

That said, the reputation of Magnacut alone already appears to be damaging towards how other steels are viewed.

I’ve mentioned this briefly as well, but I believe that if Magnacut is introduced to the Seki City made Salt knives, the existing H1 and LC200N Salt knives sales will suffer dramatically. After time the hype surrounding Magnacut should subside a little but there’s no telling how it will permanently effect other knife steels.

[ladybug93]

people that still want more edge retention will always continue to favor steels that score higher there. i think it will have the most effect on tool steel usage and outdoor knives. increased toughness combined with high corrosion resistance is about the perfect recipe for an outdoor knife. it's great for most people's edc needs as well. i think the comparison to s30v is a good one. it will likely gain a similar level of popularity unless some tabletop influencer (i won't say reviewer, since that's too generous a word for what most of them do) on youtube shares anecdotal evidence about it having poor edge retention or being difficult to sharpen.

[Evil D]

poor edge retention or being difficult to sharpen.

Gonna get out ahead of that and just say they're an idiot. I'd say above average edge retention and absolutely excellent sharpenability.

[Eli Chaps]

Just to be clear, I'm not speculating that MagnaCut will unseat all the steel options and there will absolutely be variety and steels that are better in one way or another.

[phaust]

I don't see a huge impact on standard folding knives. I don't see that as its usefulness. It seems like a steel that greatly improves a lot of niches but not the major market.

It's not going to overtake budget steels because it's not budget-priced. It doesn't beat even S30v I'm edge holding so certainly won't replace that or the M390 level steel people want/demand in the $150+ folder market. The only place I see it fitting is a Cold Steel type brand built on toughness and secondarily benefitting from extra corrosion resistance.

It could take out the Salt style steels, but some won't even move onto LC200N from H1 because of the very slight drop in corrosion resistance, so I don't think that's guaranteed. That's a very small market anyway. I could see it as the new choice for stainless fixed blades. A lot of brands seem to start with tool steels for the toughness, and users beg for a stainless option (an example being ESEE). In that market, maintaining good toughness while bumping up edge holding and corrosion resistance is a huge win. I think that's where it will make its money.

[Manifestgtr]

It’ll be interesting to see where it lands in the psyche of the greater community. Does it take the Cruwear route of becoming highly sought after, especially in combination with micarta, etc…or does it go the route of being an evolution of something like lc200n, known for its corrosion resistance.

I’ve been enjoying my mule a lot lately. It’s got really decent edge retention, strops nicely and takes a pretty mindless, razor edge. If there’s any hype backlash coming down the road, it’s going to be unwarranted imo. Unless some sort of palpable issue arises (aside from availability), there really aren’t many downsides to magnacut that I’ve seen personally…at least not yet.

[spoonrobot]

I understand what you're saying but I don't know that S30V was actually in MagnaCut's shoes. I mean, there was a ton of hype, but the stats behind it weren't nearly as impressive. People could pretty easily see it was just an advancement in certain aspects but nothing radically different.

MagnaCut is truly very different, especially if it is as easy to sharpen as I'm hearing. That's one of the key factors hat keeps a lot of people away from the high-hardness steels.

It was, S30V had all the hype and marketing in the world. It was pumped as much a game changer as MagnaCut is right now. There was also a much more controlled and limited visibility into what/why steels were good or better. We are truly spoiled for data now, in the past CATRA tests were this mystical beast that was rarely seen in the open, and almost never presented as a way to really compare anything. Of course it was also almost 20 years ago so most have forgotten. This thread makes good reading.

From 2003:


Understand I'm not saying MagnaCut does or does not warrant so much enthusiasm, my commentary is more on the at times fickle nature of what people buy and like and how marketing affects the perception of practical utility.

[Eli Chaps]

I think it is fair to say that S30V had a major impact. Look at how many steels it displaced in standard production models across numerous makers.

The information I've seen put MagnaCut at least on par with S30V for edge retention but much better in toughness. The same goes for S35VN and S45VN. If MagnaCut does actually displace S30V, I'd say that alone is a major impact.

[Christian Noble]

My thought process could be off and business aspects aside; but MagnaCut and LC200N seem to me as being ‘more similar’ relative to H-1 that for the majority of users, MC would fill that larger niche if the Salt attributes play out.

H-1 is just so unique in toughness and corrosion resistance, including chemical attack, perhaps it becomes even more of a speciality steel. Hope H-1 never goes away for the fore mentioned reasons (and very much looking forward to Enuff XL).

[bearfacedkiller]

It may become widely popular as the standard stainless steel like S30V has been but it’s strength is it’s ability and to balance corrosion resistance and toughness. I don’t really care much about corrosion resistance so it doesn’t seem to offer me much more than Cruwear. It definitely doesn’t compete with high carbide monsters like k390, S110V and Maxamet for edge retention. Honestly, S110V is surprisingly stainless for what it is (super high carbon) and I haven’t had any durability issues with it. So if I haven’t broken or damaged a blade in s110V nor have I had any corrosion issues with it then Magnacut only really benefits me on paper.

That said, I haven’t got to use my mule much and there may be some more nuanced qualities about it that I appreciate. I’m looking forward to seeing what the sharpening experience and edge stability are like.

I think Magnacut’s long term impact will hinge on if it is successful enough to demand more steels designed using the same design theory. Can we make a super stainless and tougher M4? K390? If magnacut changes the way steel compositions are designed it could change things for good. Our current magnacut is just a well rounded steel for mass market use. The future could hold more specialized steels based on it.

[Manixguy@1994]

It may become widely popular as the standard stainless steel like S30V has been but it’s strength is it’s ability and to balance corrosion resistance and toughness. I don’t really care much about corrosion resistance so it doesn’t seem to offer me much more than Cruwear. It definitely doesn’t compete with high carbide monsters like k390, S110V and Maxamet for edge retention. Honestly, S110V is surprisingly stainless for what it is (super high carbon) and I haven’t had any durability issues with it. So if I haven’t broken or damaged a blade in s110V nor have I had any corrosion issues with it then Magnacut only really benefits me on paper.

That said, I haven’t got to use my mule much and there may be some more nuanced qualities about it that I appreciate. I’m looking forward to seeing what the sharpening experience and edge stability are like.

I think Magnacut’s long term impact will hinge on if it is successful enough to demand more steels designed using the same design theory. Can we make a super stainless and tougher M4? K390? If magnacut changes the way steel compositions are designed it could change things for good. Our current magnacut is just a well rounded steel for mass market use. The future could hold more specialized steels based on it.

I couldn’t say it any better . I might add that a lot of people outside of here really do not have much steel knowledge . They look at price point before what type of steel and some could care less . An example ( not dissing the company) a Buck 110 still uses 420HC , mainly because of price and heritage of the knife . People bought them years ago and still buy them now . I think Magnacut will find their niche in various applications and will be fun what knives come out in this steel . Magnacut may not be for everybody but there is a big garden of steels that can satisfy just about anyone . MG2

[Eli Chaps]

MagnaCut isn't targeted at the 420HC et al market. In full disclosure, I have a lot of 420HC, but for the folks who are just brand loyal, especially the Buck folks (I live in Buck country) or say Case or Victorinox enthusiasts they are after the name and design. That will always be the case. The same with kitchen cutlery.

But MagnaCut is targeted at that S30V type realm. Buck is making more and more knives in S30V so they know there is growing interest in higher performing steels. For that matter, Case is now doing modern folders in S35VN.

[metaphoricalsimile]

I think Magnacut will probably be the best general-use steel, but I still prefer edge retention over toughness for small folders that I'm never going to use for tasks that create lateral stress at the edge of the blade. Why would I want a dragonfly or ladybug in a super tough steel where its toughness is never going to be much benefit?

[phaust]

I think it is fair to say that S30V had a major impact. Look at how many steels it displaced in standard production models across numerous makers.

The information I've seen put MagnaCut at least on par with S30V for edge retention but much better in toughness. The same goes for S35VN and S45VN. If MagnaCut does actually displace S30V, I'd say that alone is a major impact.

Larrin's own charts for edge holding puts MC at a 5, S45VN at 5.5, S30v at a 6.

[Evil D]

Why would I want a dragonfly or ladybug in a super tough steel where its toughness is never going to be much benefit?

That's a personal preference question and says more about your uses than what is actually practical. I've at least used a Dragonfly hard enough to potentially break the blade and I could see doing the same with a Ladybug. I think the more likely case will be whether MagnaCut lives up to the Salt potential and can move into that kind of role, and then it will provide that kind of corrosion resistance along with more edge retention with it. But you know as well as anyone else, if they put Cruwear in a Ladybug, people will lose their minds and they'll sell out. It doesn't have to make sense.

[Freediver]

What long term impact will it have on my wallet?

In all seriousness I can’t wait to get my hands on the native in Magnacut. I have a feeling I won’t be seeking out as many knives in other steels if Magnacut performs well.