Will there be a MagnaCut backlash?

[ladybug93]

I'm definitely one that was a bit disappointed after seeing the charts and graphs. That's mainly because for me, in my line of work I really value toughness (which it seems to be wonderful for) but edge retention as well (which it seems to be middle of the pack, same as S30V) So in THAT aspect of edge retention, after reading the non stop praise of this steel over the past 6 months, that really blew my mind. I was under the impression that it was the bee's knees in ALL aspects.

Yes, I do know not everyone values edge retention. I don't really HAVE to either, I could easily resharpen/touch up any knife every day after work...I just value those steels that don't require me to do so.

Am I wrong in thinking that it seems to mirror LC200N pretty closely?? If so, I then wonder why everyone is going crazy over this steel if there's already something out there that's very similar to it, that people pass on because they don't like LC200N for this or that?

All that said, I'll likely pick up a folder at some point just to give it a try and check out its sharpening response, which has become my favorite aspect of the hobby of this past year or two. I just have to accept it LIKELY won't be one of my top dogs in the fight compared to some of my tool steels...but would be delighted to find out I'm wrong!

it seems to be very similar to lc200n, but with higher edge retention.

the way i see it, it's going to be a very good steel for an outdoors fixed blade. i'm guessing i'd love it in folders too, since i really like lc200n and s30v, but i think it's going to be really good for camp chores and will probably hold an edge that will get me through a camping trip without having to worry about maintenance of the edge or the steel.

[Wandering_About]

I'm definitely one that was a bit disappointed after seeing the charts and graphs. That's mainly because for me, in my line of work I really value toughness (which it seems to be wonderful for) but edge retention as well (which it seems to be middle of the pack, same as S30V) So in THAT aspect of edge retention, after reading the non stop praise of this steel over the past 6 months, that really blew my mind. I was under the impression that it was the bee's knees in ALL aspects.

Yes, I do know not everyone values edge retention. I don't really HAVE to either, I could easily resharpen/touch up any knife every day after work...I just value those steels that don't require me to do so.

Am I wrong in thinking that it seems to mirror LC200N pretty closely?? If so, I then wonder why everyone is going crazy over this steel if there's already something out there that's very similar to it, that people pass on because they don't like LC200N for this or that?

All that said, I'll likely pick up a folder at some point just to give it a try and check out its sharpening response, which has become my favorite aspect of the hobby of this past year or two. I just have to accept it LIKELY won't be one of my top dogs in the fight compared to some of my tool steels...but would be delighted to find out I'm wrong!

Thinking MagnaCut will be the best at everything is the best way to be disappointed by it. Seems that it was originally billed as a highly balanced steel by its creator, and it does that extremely well in my experience. It's not the absolute best at any one thing, but combines toughness, strength, corrosion resistance, and wear resistance very well.

If you're looking for max wear resistance it won't be your favorite.

[Ramonade]

Youtubers will tell to most of us what to think.

Alright alright alright !

[steelcity16]

I was also surprised to see it in the Salt line, so I think you might see some backlash regarding corrosion resistance if it doesn't at least equal that of LC200N in real world use. Should be interesting.

You will see backlash from me if it isn't in the Seki models in short order! :) MagnaCut Endela when????

[Xformer]

a steel with some interesting mix of properties that has not been available before.

Is that part true ?

S30V is already striking a pretty good balance and that's why it's so common on manufacturers catalogue. How does magnacut compare ?

[Matus]

Check out articles by Larrin. He explains the properties of the MagnaCut in detail.

[nerdlock]

a steel with some interesting mix of properties that has not been available before.

Is that part true ?

S30V is already striking a pretty good balance and that's why it's so common on manufacturers catalogue. How does magnacut compare ?

Toughness.

[elduderino04]

Having had a couple MagnaCut knives for a while... I think it's pretty awesome stuff. But there are probably a lot of very unrealistic expectations out there that are not going to be met. It was designed for balance, and I feel that it does that extremely well. In my personal experience, at ~62Rc it can hold up well with a thin, fine edge. If you're expecting magic though, simmer down please.

Here are a few notes from my experiences: On sharpening stones, it feels surprisingly similar to S35VN. But it takes a fine edge a bit more easily, and has much better edge stability (although my experience with S35VN is typically around 60Rc). Toughness is pretty good. Following picture is of a saw made exclusively with a custom blade in MagnaCut at 62Rc. I broke 3 batons while making this. This blade is made of 1/8" stock. There are other steels that can hold up to this kind of abuse, but this knife has a very thin edge, and is very stainless, and still sharpens up nicely. Again... balance.

I have to confess, it took about 2 read-throughs before I realized you were saying you made the saw using a MagnaCut knife. I was certain you were showing off a saw that had a MagnaCut blade, and was thinking to myself "that's certainly an interesting use for the steel," and "how did he get a long enough piece of MagnaCut to make the saw blade," and "why?"

[resonanzmacher]

Oh, I'm surprised folks gotta ask. Of course there's gonna be a backlash.

You will have people saying things like 'edge retention is crap compared to my S90V Awesomesaucer' and 'Side by side with my Z-tuff BatonlikeaMFer it just doesn't stand up'. You will have people saying 'I left it in salt water for a week and it started rusting, screw this noise'. and even people going 'I'm pretty sure Buck 420HC and 14C28N are tougher than this and most existing super steels are as good or better at wear resistance so I don't know why you're fanboying over it'. You will have people who don't really know much about steel going 'lol at all you fools' because they read one of the above and decided that it was all just another knife industry ripoff. Most of these people will never have understood what the point of Magnacut is -- that it's the new 'best of three worlds' steel for people who care about edge, toughness and corrosion resistance in equal measure as opposed to wanting one of those qualities absolutely maxed out at the expense of the others. But a lack of key info has never stopped a lot of people from talking about knife steel.

And there will be people that get very upset in response and will be all like 'you don't understand, you damned dirty apes, this is literally the best thing ever, raaagh' and be as prone to push their praise a bridge too far as the naysayers are prone to not give enough credit where it's due.

This will all happen regardless of whether or not the rest of us, who understand what the steel's actually supposed to be bringing to the table, decide that it lives up to its billing as the new standard in all-around performance.

I think even Larrin Thomas expects that there will be many different such steels made in response to people seeing the possibilities but wanting something with a little more edge retention or impact resistance or whatever. If I remember correctly he sees Magnacut as starting a new conversation in steel, not the last word in the old conversation.

To me, knife steel nerd as I am, this is all gravy. I will be paying close attention to the RESULTS that people post about Magnacut, but I'll be a lot less worried about what their personal OPINIONS are of it, the people who bought it, the people who mock it and all that, because steel > meta.

[PeaceInOurTime]

IMO, the majority of the knife community doesn't really want a balanced steel. They want high performance.

You're assuming that everyone sees "high performance" as being high edge retention. If that were the only thing that mattered we would all be using ceramic blades by now.

Not necessarily an observation from this forum, but based on the past ten years of following other forums, social media, and a few people I've talked to in person, I do assume the MAJORITY of the knife community focus primarily on edge retention when valuing a steel. That's just what I've seen.

When I looked into it, I walked away assuming MagnaCut would be something like a stainless 4V. Is this a valid expectation?

That was exactly my take away from Larrin's write ups and the early testing by custom knife makers. I don't understand how a stainless (up to LC200N levels!) 4V is already being downplayed as over-hyped when 4V is so loved.

I'm trying to think of a saying for this but it seems to me that people are already turning on things that just seem too good to be true because they don't want to be let down. I guess it's like sabotaging a relationship and ending it yourself to save yourself from getting dumped.

4V with LC corrosion levels sounds great! I just think alot of people don't have realistic expectations for what that means and will be disappointed when it doesn't keep an edge as long as S90V. I wouldn't call it sabotaging the relationship, just wanting realistic expectations in the midst of hype.

[Xformer]

a steel with some interesting mix of properties that has not been available before.

Is that part true ?

S30V is already striking a pretty good balance and that's why it's so common on manufacturers catalogue. How does magnacut compare ?

Toughness.

So superior in thoughness, but what about the rest ? Corrosion resistance and ease of sharpening ?

[Evil D]

I wouldn't call it sabotaging the relationship, just wanting realistic expectations in the midst of hype.

I think what most are missing is that the hype is specifically for the balance and absolutely nobody who's hyped about this steel is expecting S90V edge retention. People are assuming everyone is excited for the things that THEY themselves prioritize and are not paying attention to what people are actually excited about. I don't see anyone claiming this steel to be the best at edge retention yet we already have people bringing up the argument that it isn't...I just don't get that. Basically it's "wow all these people are excited about this steel, it must hold an edge forever" and then they see the numbers and are let down by their own preconceived expectations, when absolutely nobody has told them to expect the best of anything. It's a self sabotaging mechanism.

[PeaceInOurTime]

I wouldn't call it sabotaging the relationship, just wanting realistic expectations in the midst of hype.

I think what most are missing is that the hype is specifically for the balance and absolutely nobody who's hyped about this steel is expecting S90V edge retention. People are assuming everyone is excited for the things that THEY themselves prioritize and are not paying attention to what people are actually excited about. I don't see anyone claiming this steel to be the best at edge retention yet we already have people bringing up the argument that it isn't...I just don't get that. Basically it's "wow all these people are excited about this steel, it must hold an edge forever" and then they see the numbers and are let down by their own preconceived expectations, when absolutely nobody has told them to expect the best of anything. It's a self sabotaging mechanism.

You're probably right. I'm just venting.

I hope all who are interested in this steel understand the limitations and get exactly what they want out of it. I'm sure I'll try it, someday.

[ladybug93]

from what i had read about the steel, i also expected higher edge retention before looking at larrin's chart. for a split second, i was disappointed, but then i remembered how i rarely have to sharpen s30v, xhp, or even lc200n in my use and can just easily touch them up with a few light passes here and there. i like that in a steel and definitely favor corrosion resistance and toughness over edge retention. i don't cut all day for work, and if i did, i'd probably use some kind of specialized tool for it. even when i break down boxes for recycling, i'll usually grab a box cutter because it's more satisfying (not to mention way easier) than using thicker edc blades. but, even when using my spydies to break down boxes, i've never had any steel (including h1) not get me to the end of the job. i sometimes wonder what people are doing that they need steels with the highest edge retention possible. i can't imagine wanting to spend $100+ on a knife that's going to rust (i could stop the sentence here, really) just so i don't have to touch up the edge occasionally.

[Deadboxhero]

a steel with some interesting mix of properties that has not been available before.

Is that part true ?

S30V is already striking a pretty good balance and that's why it's so common on manufacturers catalogue. How does magnacut compare ?

Toughness.

So superior in thoughness, but what about the rest ? Corrosion resistance and ease of sharpening ?

Read the article.

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/03/25/cpm-magnacut/

[Pokey]

Larrin's website couldn't find the link above. Was this the article, Shawn?

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/03/25/cpm-magnacut/

[James Y]

from what i had read about the steel, i also expected higher edge retention before looking at larrin's chart. for a split second, i was disappointed, but then i remembered how i rarely have to sharpen s30v, xhp, or even lc200n in my use and can just easily touch them up with a few light passes here and there. i like that in a steel and definitely favor corrosion resistance and toughness over edge retention. i don't cut all day for work, and if i did, i'd probably use some kind of specialized tool for it. even when i break down boxes for recycling, i'll usually grab a box cutter because it's more satisfying (not to mention way easier) than using thicker edc blades. but, even when using my spydies to break down boxes, i've never had any steel (including h1) not get me to the end of the job. i sometimes wonder what people are doing that they need steels with the highest edge retention possible. i can't imagine wanting to spend $100+ on a knife that's going to rust (i could stop the sentence here, really) just so i don't have to touch up the edge occasionally.

I also prefer a well-rounded steel.

I’ve read posts on BF by advocates of “super edge-holding” steels who admitted to touching up their knives every evening, after even a little use, because they were OCD and afraid of letting them go dull, and the eventual “bear of a resharpening” if they let it go too long without it. So what’s the difference between that and using a “lesser” steel that may not hold an edge quite as long, but is easy to maintain? In cases like that, I dare to say that the well-rounded steels may actually require fewer resharpenings over time, with far less stress around it.

Jim

[Deadboxhero]

Larrin's website couldn't find the link above. Was this the article, Shawn?

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/03/25/cpm-magnacut/

Yes, I fixed the link a well, thank you.

[Evil D]

I also prefer a well-rounded steel.

I’ve read posts on BF by advocates of “super edge-holding” steels who admitted to touching up their knives every evening, because they were OCD and afraid of letting them go dull, and the eventual “bear of a resharpening” if they let it go too long without it. So what’s the difference between that and using a “lesser” steel that may not hold an edge quite as long, but is easy to maintain? In cases like that, I dare to say that the well-rounded steels may actually require fewer resharpenings over time, with far less stress around it.

Jim

This was me about 4 years ago. I was in love with S110V "because it holds an edge so long", yet I would touch it up after every use because it can get to be a chore to bring it back from a very dull edge. Part of that is just using the right sharpening media, it's definitely easier with the right stones than with just ceramics, but I realized that it's a wasted aspect of the steel for me if I'm willing to touch it up at the end of the day. Then comes the realization that I start each day/use with a freshly sharpened blade that is far sharper than the guy who's 7 days into his "working edge" and I find that I spend more time using a sharper knife than they do. Then when it comes time to sharpen it's a 60 second ordeal which makes me much more willing (less lazy) to actually do it because I don't dread it anymore. And then the best part is, I don't feel reluctant to really use my knife and let it get dull because I know it won't be a big deal to sharpen it back up even if I do damage it. Unless I run into a scenario where I can't sharpen my knife, I realistically only need one or two days worth of edge retention, and then if the steel is tough and resists damage, that makes it less likely that I have to repair anything and it ensures that sharpening stays easy and quick.

It's really a win win win situation. I only have a curiosity about those other steels, I don't have any interest in using them as a true EDC anymore.

[Deadboxhero]

from what i had read about the steel, i also expected higher edge retention before looking at larrin's chart. for a split second, i was disappointed, but then i remembered how i rarely have to sharpen s30v, xhp, or even lc200n in my use and can just easily touch them up with a few light passes here and there. i like that in a steel and definitely favor corrosion resistance and toughness over edge retention. i don't cut all day for work, and if i did, i'd probably use some kind of specialized tool for it. even when i break down boxes for recycling, i'll usually grab a box cutter because it's more satisfying (not to mention way easier) than using thicker edc blades. but, even when using my spydies to break down boxes, i've never had any steel (including h1) not get me to the end of the job. i sometimes wonder what people are doing that they need steels with the highest edge retention possible. i can't imagine wanting to spend $100+ on a knife that's going to rust (i could stop the sentence here, really) just so i don't have to touch up the edge occasionally.

I also prefer a well-rounded steel.

I’ve read posts on BF by advocates of “super edge-holding” steels who admitted to touching up their knives every evening, after even a little use, because they were OCD and afraid of letting them go dull, and the eventual “bear of a resharpening” if they let it go too long without it. So what’s the difference between that and using a “lesser” steel that may not hold an edge quite as long, but is easy to maintain? In cases like that, I dare to say that the well-rounded steels may actually require fewer resharpenings over time, with far less stress around it.

Jim

Sharpening difficulty is way overblown.

Its 2021, we have access to the right abrasives for the job and honesty it seems to come down mostly to technique.

If someone is doing alternating passes on ceramic until a Rex121 knife at 70rc gets sharp and complains its not as responsive as 420j2 at 56rc thats more technique and tools than the steels fault.

The advantage to the high wear steels if at a sufficient hardness is that they don't blunt smooth with lots cutting meaning you don't have to stop and sharpen, so you sharpen when you want to not because you have to.

Not saying balanced steels aren't nice just giving a balanced perspective.

I very much enjoy MagnaCut, it is a paradigm shift in what was thought to be possible in a stainless steel.

Before MagnaCut there was always a trade off for the stainless feature, so it appears Larrin has cracked the code.

I found the MagnaCut to sharpen very easy compared to s35vn, s30v.

Deburrs very nicely.

It will blunt smooth in use compared to a higher wear steel but it will have more edge stability.