Spyderco Forums

mikey177 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:22 pm

At $119, it's less expensive than their Sage 5 variant.

Get thee behind me, Mikey!

I have a Native 5 LW in REX45 that I carry only on those rare occasions when I can only carry a small knife, and a standard Native 5 in REX45 for when I wear out the LW. But I'm REALLY intrigued by M4. I don't know WHAT to do!

I really like the cool looks of the Native, also the no-ramp-design.
Function-. and ergowise it can´t match my Chap FRN, that´s why I sold my FRN Native.
But this one looks interesting, just for trying M4.... but as Ramonade said, shipping, tariff, taxes included it might be up to twice the price till a guy in Europe has it actually in hand. Still: I am at least considering it.

soulspy wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:00 pm

RamZar wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:04 pm

As far as the M4/Mint FRN go, the price of the Sage5 is totally ridiculous at $154.00 considering Para3 was $122.50 and now Native5 is $119.00!

I've never taken apart a Native, but I was surprised with the Sage construction. A lot of parts. And, to be honest, little things that I think Taiwan might do a bit better than Golden or Seki City- all hardware T8, FRN texture is ideal, FRN radii for nested liners were tight, and a pivot bushing! Might not be $35 better to some, but I'd do it again.

This does look tempting though!

I think what some people are questioning is not that the Sage 5 is more expensive than the other 2, but that the M4 version jumps so much higher than the other 2 M4 versions over standard.

Std/M4
Para 3 LW - $105.00/$122.50
Native 5 LW - $108.50/$119.00
Sage 5 LW - $122.50/$154.00

The price difference between strels is not that crazy. Like, m390 is not that expensive compared to s30v. When you see how many blanks can be done in one sheet, it changes the price of the knife but not that drastically.

Its all the abrasives and such that are used on these steels that cost a lot more than for 420HC xD

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:05 am

I really like the cool looks of the Native, also the no-ramp-design.
Function-. and ergowise it can´t match my Chap FRN, that´s why I sold my FRN Native.
But this one looks interesting, just for trying M4.... but as Ramonade said, shipping, tariff, taxes included it might be up to twice the price till a guy in Europe has it actually in hand. Still: I am at least considering it.

Amen to that.
Even though being an avid fan to the Native 5 (LW especially) is making me consider it strongly.

RamZar wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:04 pm

As far as the M4/Mint FRN go, the price of the Sage5 is totally ridiculous at $154.00 considering Para3 was $122.50 and now Native5 is $119.00!

Yeah but Taichung quality blows Golden's out of the water. and the cost to ship steel half way around the world and back adds a premium. A N5 is not even close to a Sage 5, especially with that mediocre Golden FRN pattern and a backlock. Sage 5 FRN is a work of art and so well finished without the Golden rough edges. The compression lock action the best I have seen out of the box.
Some say the Caribbean isn't worth $186 for LC200N. I would disagree. It's not the steel but the quality, fit and finish.
Look at the Kapara, Swayback and others. You have to pay for the best and unfortunately, Golden is not on par with Taichung IMHO.

Superflex wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:11 pm

RamZar wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:04 pm

As far as the M4/Mint FRN go, the price of the Sage5 is totally ridiculous at $154.00 considering Para3 was $122.50 and now Native5 is $119.00!

Yeah but Taichung quality blows Golden's out of the water. and the cost to ship steel half way around the world and back adds a premium. A N5 is not even close to a Sage 5, especially with that mediocre Golden FRN pattern and a backlock. Sage 5 FRN is a work of art and so well finished without the Golden rough edges. The compression lock action the best I have seen out of the box.
Some say the Caribbean isn't worth $186 for LC200N. I would disagree. It's not the steel but the quality, fit and finish.
Look at the Kapara, Swayback and others. You have to pay for the best and unfortunately, Golden is not on par with Taichung IMHO.

I don't think anyone is arguing the Sage 5 is not a well executed model. My best "quality" knife (in my opinion) is my Kapara. It is a work of art.

Look at the standard model price difference between the 3 models. The 3 are relatively close. The standard model for the Sage still has to ship the S30V back and forth to produce. The jump from S30V to M4 is around 16% on the Para and Native while the Sage jumps about 26%. Both American steels on the Sage. Both Crucible steels. No hate on the Sage, just curious.

The quality of one over the other is subjective. I personally love the Seki execution on the FRN. Wonderfully contoured and feels more rubbery than plastic. I wouldn't argue it's the best, but my personal preference.

Now the math on the increases, I can't explain.

Superflex wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:11 pm

RamZar wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:04 pm

As far as the M4/Mint FRN go, the price of the Sage5 is totally ridiculous at $154.00 considering Para3 was $122.50 and now Native5 is $119.00!

Yeah but Taichung quality blows Golden's out of the water. and the cost to ship steel half way around the world and back adds a premium. A N5 is not even close to a Sage 5, especially with that mediocre Golden FRN pattern and a backlock. Sage 5 FRN is a work of art and so well finished without the Golden rough edges. The compression lock action the best I have seen out of the box.
Some say the Caribbean isn't worth $186 for LC200N. I would disagree. It's not the steel but the quality, fit and finish.
Look at the Kapara, Swayback and others. You have to pay for the best and unfortunately, Golden is not on par with Taichung IMHO.

Taichungs quality isnt better than Golden.
A lot of people on here like to say that but that doesnt make it true.

Over the last 5 years I have had a lot of models made in Taichung and Golden pass through my hands...
Theyre quality is easily equal and I prefer Golden models.

For non-frn stuff I will say Golden is better.
Solid carbon fiber vs peel ply laminate. (Exception for the kapara.)
No rattling lanyard tubes.
No rattling stop pins, stepped stop pins as well.

Ive had comp locks from Seki, Taichung, and Golden.
Golden is consistently the best.
Most of the Taichung ones Ive used are really good but why cant they use a stepped stop pin?
As far as adjusting comp locks go I have the most luck with the Golden made ones.

I prefer the bidirectional frn pattern to the fish scale pattern so in my opinion Golden and Seki have the better pattern.

If Golden had chamfered their lightweights I dont think people would have any complaints about them.

I will say this, the para 3 lightweight is about the worst example of what Golden can do and the Sage 5 lightweight is very good. So comparing these two is more of an outlier than a fair comparison of Golden models to Taichung models.

Comparing native 5 to sage 5 is preference but Golden makes probably the best backlock on the planet so I dont agree with what you said.

For the price I think Golden is the better value. Theres nothing about the construction of the Watu/Kapara/Canis that actually makes me think the quality is better than a PM2. And a pm2 is $40 cheaper.
(The only argument here is the pm2s screwed stop pin.)
But for the same price I can make the same argumemt and substitute pm2 for Shaman.

The caribbean should be better than it is for the price they charge. There are several things that it doesnt get right.

The swayback for me was a huge disappointment at its price point. Theres nothing wrong with it, it just didnt do it for me.
But I can say nothing at all about it is better than my Golden made fluted titanium Military.

I have 12 Golden models so I'm not a hater.
The Para 3 LW just turned me off to Golden FRN and quality. Taichung uses two bronze washers on the Sage 5. Golden uses one and it shows. Para 3 LW wire clip rotating out of position. Para 3 LW centering issues. Para 3 LW FRN rough edges.
Golden G10 is top notch. Agreed about the CF scales. Golden does it better. They just need to add some contouring instead of those bland slabs to get to the next level.
The fluted Ti scales are over the top. My N5 is my favorite Golden model.
And I agree, the swayback shiny spoon clip was a fail but the knife is outstanding and a $24 MXG clip solves the problem

Superflex wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:00 pm

I have 12 Golden models so I'm not a hater.
The Para 3 LW just turned me off to Golden FRN and quality. Taichung uses two bronze washers on the Sage 5. Golden uses one and it shows. Para 3 LW wire clip rotating out of position. Para 3 LW centering issues. Para 3 LW FRN rough edges.
Golden G10 is top notch. Agreed about the CF scales. Golden does it better. They just need to add some contouring instead of those bland slabs to get to the next level.
The fluted Ti scales are over the top. My N5 is my favorite Golden model.
And I agree, the swayback shiny spoon clip was a fail but the knife is outstanding and a $24 MXG clip solves the problem

I think the Manix 2 LW and the Native 5 are fantastic and both excellent examples of lightweight Golden models with different well executed lock designs. I do wish the Seki FRN would be the "Gold" standard though.

My Golden introduction was a Para 3 LW and let's just say that relationship didn't end well. Not trying to hate on the Para 3, but man my version had the same issues. I am glad others love it and have had better experiences.

I am excited that the Sage is branching out with exclusives. I hope there are more in the future. Just hope the prices are more in line. Time will tell on how long this model takes to sell out.

Superflex wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:00 pm

I have 12 Golden models so I'm not a hater.
The Para 3 LW just turned me off to Golden FRN and quality. Taichung uses two bronze washers on the Sage 5. Golden uses one and it shows. Para 3 LW wire clip rotating out of position. Para 3 LW centering issues. Para 3 LW FRN rough edges.
Golden G10 is top notch. Agreed about the CF scales. Golden does it better. They just need to add some contouring instead of those bland slabs to get to the next level.
The fluted Ti scales are over the top. My N5 is my favorite Golden model.
And I agree, the swayback shiny spoon clip was a fail but the knife is outstanding and a $24 MXG clip solves the problem

Yeah, I wont even try to defend the para 3 lightweight.

I just think in the $150 to $220 price range, if someone said they were looking for a Spyderco and it was coming down to what factory... then I would have to recommend Golden.

I bought both the mantra 3 and rhino at the discount prices a while back and I gotta be honest, was disappointed in both of them. Theres nothing wrong with the quality but I just dont love either design. (Ill give the rhino a second chance.)

But thats part of the issue. Sometimes the love or hate for a knife can throw off our judgement.

I like Taichung as well. I like the caribbean even though I said it got stuff wrong, heck I have 2 of them. But at the end of the day my preference is for Golden. I really do think both factories are of equal quality.

VooDooChild wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:46 pm

If Golden had chamfered their lightweights I dont think people would have any complaints about them.

I will say this, the para 3 lightweight is about the worst example of what Golden can do and the Sage 5 lightweight is very good. So comparing these two is more of an outlier than a fair comparison of Golden models to Taichung models.

I'm glad I'm not the only one with this issue. N5LW's blocky edges really are uncomfortable to me. Which is kinda ironic, because the Para3 LW has some of the best ergos and contouring/chamfering of any Spyderco out there only to be beset by centering/one PB washer issues. Still wishing for Para3 LW Cqi and contoured FRN on future Golden LW releases.

Superflex wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:11 pm

RamZar wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:04 pm

As far as the M4/Mint FRN go, the price of the Sage5 is totally ridiculous at $154.00 considering Para3 was $122.50 and now Native5 is $119.00!

Yeah but Taichung quality blows Golden's out of the water. and the cost to ship steel half way around the world and back adds a premium. A N5 is not even close to a Sage 5, especially with that mediocre Golden FRN pattern and a backlock. Sage 5 FRN is a work of art and so well finished without the Golden rough edges. The compression lock action the best I have seen out of the box.
....

Can´t really weigh in on the Taichung quality, since (as far as I can recall) I only had/have to models out of this factory: Kapara and Chaparral, both were/are perfectly executed in fact though (but a bit small of a sample to form a real opinion)

Just on the locks: Why do you think a N5 is "not even close to a Sage 5" concerning the backlock?!

I think the Natives 5s backlock is extremely well executed, with very tight tolerances - probably the best backlock I ever experienced together with the one on the Chap.
To be clear: This is not about my admittedly existing preference of backlock over comp. lock generally, but just about how amazingly well and in what high quality the particular Native backlock is done.
And from my total layman point of view I could imagine that it is harder to do a flawless, bladeplay free backlock than a flawless, bladeplay free comp.lock (could very well be wrong though on this).

Manix, ukpk to complete the series?

I like the para 3, but I'm not sure if the rounded edges is what makes the whole thing "slippery" vs a native 5. Need more time with the two

Glad to see more FRN models, though I am only really interested in the ones from Seki. Hoping to see some M4 Seki models with GITD scales as I am not a fan of the mint, it doesn't glow, and it looks nothing like the Jade G10 where the GITD scales look VERY similar.

Too bad it's not the green as shown in the picture. I went to put my "mint" Sage 5 in my pocket to come to work today but just couldn't do it. If it was the green in the OP's picture I'd be willing to actually put it in my pocket

Now where's my RIT dye?.....

Sharp Guy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:03 pm

Too bad it's not the green as shown in the picture. I went to put my "mint" Sage 5 in my pocket to come to work today but just couldn't do it. If it was the green in the OP's picture I'd be willing to actually put it in my pocket

Now where's my RIT dye?.....

I was thinking the same thing, that color posted is WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY different than the specimens I've seen posted. That color isn't so bad and obnoxious. False advertising! All these funky, pastel easter egg knives that came out this year certainly saved me a few hundred dollars!

TkoK83Spy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:23 pm

All these funky, pastel easter egg knives that came out this year certainly saved me a few hundred dollars!

They're bleeding me dry. I like the different colors!

All this talk of the color has me torn. Does anyone have a true representative photo showing this mint green frn scale color?

This is next to a pastel teal FRN. I'd say if it is mint, it's spearmint.