Spyderco Forums

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:21 am

I clearly prefer the Chap over the DFly (but would certainly own a DFly if there was no Chap). Where the DFly really shines though is when it comes to light weight. Even the FRN Chap has almost twice the weight (60g vs 34g), and that will also contribute to it being more of a "pocket destroyer". Especially since the comparably "high" weight is distributed on a relatively small surface - the very thin handle end.

That being said: I think we just got to learn to live with more or less damaged pockets, my friend, and find fixes for that

ALL of my pants did heavily wear out (the RFP in my case), many developed holes.
Most have patches sewn over those holes already.
On some those PATCHES have holes themselves again:

8< --------

I've come to terms with frayed and damaged pockets, actually it never bothered me as I tend to wear out the rest of the pants at the approx. same rate :)

The issue really becomes a problem when I carry the knife loose in my back pocket, as I can't visually see the seam starting to tear, and once the hole is big enough, there's quite the risk that my knife might manage to escape.

Under different legal circumstances I would probably prefer the Chap over DF2 for typical EDC carry, but I've found the DF2 to be pretty much the perfect compromise when looking at my needs, preferences, legal- and social limitations.
It took a while to get there, though. The basic version of the DF2 was in the first batch of three Spyderco's that I bought about 5 years ago, but it wasn't until I got the Manbug Salt, like 1.5 years ago, that I realized how well these super light knives carry clipless. Until then it had just been sporadic outdoor use, but now I have 3 of them and plan to get the upcoming K390 wharnie and even considering the hawkbill. Pretty much a full transformation from the ugly duckling to the swan of my collection :)

A CQI chaparral is a Salty one.

count me in.

Let me use this topic while it's hot:
Titanium, CF/G10 or FRN?
Titanium currently at 380 € (430 $) and FRN at 130 € (147 $) on Coutellerie Tourangelle. Cannot find CF/G10 in Europe, and to get it on Christmas closing from the US would be a nightmare.

Is titanium worth 3 times the price of FRN?

Not a fan of FRN, would like CF/G10, as it should be more durable, and looks better anyway.

Edit: CF/G10 is unavailable everywhere.

Chaparral Stepped Titanium is a stunning piece of performing art! Takes a long time to mill that.

I have almost all of the Chaparral models including the early CF/G-10 with S30V. Never had issues with a strong back lock. The only one I don’t have is the Blue Anodized Stepped Titanium because the two samples I tried had patchy anodizing and they looked terrible. Some Chaparral are not geared for constant EDC because the handle material gets damaged or scratched: Raffir Noble, Sun & Moon and Birdseye Maple Wood. Also, I wish the blade steel was something much more stainless than XHP.

I’d like to see new handle materials like Diamond Arc Forest Green G-10, true CF, stainless steel.

pantagana23 wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:30 pm

Let me use this topic while it's hot:
Titanium, CF/G10 or FRN?
Titanium currently at 380 € (430 $) and FRN at 130 € (147 $) on Coutellerie Tourangelle. Cannot find CF/G10 in Europe, and to get it on Christmas closing from the US would be a nightmare.

Is titanium worth 3 times the price of FRN?

Not a fan of FRN, would like CF/G10, as it should be more durable, and looks better anyway.

Edit: CF/G10 is unavailable everywhere.

FRN is pretty good and sturdy since there is inset liners in there. Can be found for 116€ at Knives&Tools. Paid 105€ on CT or K&T to get mine, prices went up in one year ^^

Welp, got the new chaparral. The lock is _way_ easier to use than I remember my last one. Maybe I got an especially stiff setup last time.

Knife is great though.

sethwm wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:37 pm

Welp, got the new chaparral. The lock is _way_ easier to use than I remember my last one. Maybe I got an especially stiff setup last time.

Knife is great though.

That's good!

The Chap is hard to beat if one wants a small actual cutting tool.

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:21 am

aicolainen wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:10 am

Having too many knives is a problem. When something as good as the chap can be relegated to sock drawer duty for the longest time, one realize one is quite spoiled.
Lately I’ve really brushed the dust off it and carried it quite extensively until yesterday when I noticed it was about to dig its way through my back pocket seam.
That was a sad realization. I often carry a DF2 loose in my back pocket without issue, but I guess the added length of the chap puts more pressure on the seams. Using the clip probably eliminates the problem, but that’s sadly not an option in many circumstances due to laws and sensitive people.
Need to work this out so I can keep carrying it as much as it deserves.

I clearly prefer the Chap over the DFly (but would certainly own a DFly if there was no Chap). Where the DFly really shines though is when it comes to light weight. Even the FRN Chap has almost twice the weight (60g vs 34g), and that will also contribute to it being more of a "pocket destroyer". Especially since the comparably "high" weight is distributed on a relatively small surface - the very thin handle end.

That being said: I think we just got to learn to live with more or less damaged pockets, my friend, and find fixes for that

ALL of my pants did heavily wear out (the RFP in my case), many developed holes.
Most have patches sewn over those holes already.
On some those PATCHES have holes themselves again:

-Pic 1: Bouldering pant, even made of rather heavy garment - it developed a huge "knife hole" over time, a beige patch was sewn over that hole, but has one itself already

- Pic 2: This is what the RFP of all my jeans look like: Patch over the hole that developed over time...

What are you patching with? Weave and material have a huge impact on abrasion resistance. Something like nylon is gonna hold up many times over compared to cotton. Even polyester handles abrasion pretty ok compared to cotton. I think acrylic is worse than cotton, but I can't remember for sure. Though if you're really tearing through pockets nothing beats fabric made of UHMWP or "ultra high molecular weight polyethylene". That stuff can resist abrasion better than some steels. It's ridiculous. It might be worth picking up a bolt of it for patches. Fair warning, it is a bit hard to work with and surprisingly thermally conductive.

i don't get the marriage of the Chaparral with XHP. There is so much potential of a stainless steel in this design. Don't get me wrong, i like XHP. Just don't like the fact to be very carefull with it because it ain't stainless. The occassional foodcutting requires always an almost direct rinse and dry afterwards. i know, you probably will all say...use kitchen knives. And you are right.

Still...CQI the chaparral in a stainless steel direction. i don't care which one. --> not true

Danvp wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:50 pm

i don't get the marriage of the Chaparral with XHP. There is so much potential of a stainless steel in this design. Don't get me wrong, i like XHP. Just don't like the fact to be very carefull with it because it ain't stainless. The occassional foodcutting requires always an almost direct rinse and dry afterwards. i know, you probably will all say...use kitchen knives. And you are right.

Still...CQI the chaparral in a stainless steel direction. i don't care which one. --> not true

Totally agree! I've mentioned this in the past as well. Chaparral begs a premium stainless steel (20CV would be my choice with great corrosion resistance and edge retention). XHP stains too easily.

XHP is the only steel that I've managed to stain so far. Maxamet and ZDP-189 stayed pristine. Must be my luck ^^

Another thing to add because it's one of my favorite feature on both the Native 5 and the Chapparal : no vertical blade play in this mid-backlock.

XHP seems to straddle the stainless/tool steel fence. Such a sweet design. It deserves elevated status for more options than handle variations which may also induce more disparity in pricing. Sal has said that the first Magna-Cut(s) will be from the Golden plant, but I would dearly love to see the Taiwan Chaparral gods make an exception to the XHP rule with Magna-Cut.

When Larrin did a corrosion test of various stainless steels XHP did the worst. Vanax is tops and both LC200N and H1 would be the same. Next is MagnaCut (New Steel) and then 20CV.

Hey OP, did you get your new chap yet? I got mine and it's way easier to unlock that it used to be. I actually like this nodel now. (of course I had to put a lynchnw clip on it)

SG89 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:09 pm

Hey OP, did you get your new chap yet? I got mine and it's way easier to unlock that it used to be. I actually like this nodel now. (of course I had to put a lynchnw clip on it)

Yup. Got mine and lock is way nicer on the thumb. Love that clip.

Toucan wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:41 am

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:21 am

aicolainen wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:10 am

What are you patching with? Weave and material have a huge impact on abrasion resistance. Something like nylon is gonna hold up many times over compared to cotton. Even polyester handles abrasion pretty ok compared to cotton. I think acrylic is worse than cotton, but I can't remember for sure. Though if you're really tearing through pockets nothing beats fabric made of UHMWP or "ultra high molecular weight polyethylene". That stuff can resist abrasion better than some steels. It's ridiculous. It might be worth picking up a bolt of it for patches. Fair warning, it is a bit hard to work with and surprisingly thermally conductive.

Sorry for the late reply, Toucan!

Thinking about it, I only got these "knife holes" in (bouldering) pants made of cotton (or materials with a high amount of cotton) and regular blue jeans.
And the patches are made out of cotton or jeans garment too.

Thanks for the suggestion!! My next patches will be made out of nylon or even the magic "UHMWP" (I´ve never heard of this before!).

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:13 pm

Toucan wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:41 am

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:21 am

aicolainen wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:10 am

What are you patching with? Weave and material have a huge impact on abrasion resistance. Something like nylon is gonna hold up many times over compared to cotton. Even polyester handles abrasion pretty ok compared to cotton. I think acrylic is worse than cotton, but I can't remember for sure. Though if you're really tearing through pockets nothing beats fabric made of UHMWP or "ultra high molecular weight polyethylene". That stuff can resist abrasion better than some steels. It's ridiculous. It might be worth picking up a bolt of it for patches. Fair warning, it is a bit hard to work with and surprisingly thermally conductive.

Sorry for the late reply, Toucan!

Thinking about it, I only got these "knife holes" in (bouldering) pants made of cotton (or materials with a high amount of cotton) and regular blue jeans.
And the patches are made out of cotton or jeans garment too.

Thanks for the suggestion!! My next patches will be made out of nylon or even the magic "UHMWP" (I´ve never heard of this before!).

Anytime! Yeah some thin and cheap nylon (maybe in a ripstop weave?) would be my go to, and can be bought at just about any fabric shop. It can be acquired, cut, and sewn via conventional means. If you wanna get exotic, the brand/common name for UHMWP is "Dyneema" (it's also sometimes called UHMWPE), you see it in some motorcycle pants mixed into denim, but buying it online is probably the easiest way to get some. You'd probably need kevlar shears or something else peppier than regular fabric scissors.

Toucan wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:16 pm

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:13 pm

Toucan wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:41 am

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:21 am

.....
Thanks for the suggestion!! My next patches will be made out of nylon or even the magic "UHMWP" (I´ve never heard of this before!).

Anytime! Yeah some thin and cheap nylon (maybe in a ripstop weave?) would be my go to, and can be bought at just about any fabric shop. It can be acquired, cut, and sewn via conventional means. If you wanna get exotic, the brand/common name for UHMWP is "Dyneema" (it's also sometimes called UHMWPE), you see it in some motorcycle pants mixed into denim, but buying it online is probably the easiest way to get some. You'd probably need kevlar shears or something else peppier than regular fabric scissors.

Ahh, DYNEEMA!!

Under that name I actually do know "UHMWP" very well!

I am a lot into mountaineering and climbing, and Dyneema was a bit of an revolution in that arena when it was introduced for making various kinds of cordage, slings, runners for carabiners, even harnesses - gear made out of this material is a lot lighter and slimmer than what we had before and also very cut resistent - though it turned out to have some disadvantages too when it comes to mountaineering (but not for patching pants ) -for example almost no elasticity and reduced knot strength due to the very smooth surface of the material. That´s why nowadays in climbing Dyneema often gets married to some kind of hybrid with other materials (polyamid...)

Many of my slings are out of Dyneema (or that hybrid material), also my superlight and low bulk harness for skitouring and glaciers (applications, where one does not frequently actually sit in the harness, like it would be the case in climbing, but it´s there just for emergencies (falling into a crevasse) or occasional repelling)

I personally love XHP and have had no rust issues. Then again, I've never had D2 rust either so maybe I'm in a particularly dry area.
Some notes on the Chaparral. There have been a couple of revisions that in aware of. There may be more than this but from what I know:
The early Chaparral was in S30V. If the stainless properties of XHP are keeping you from a Chaparral, look for them on the secondary market and you might find one in S30V.

Earlier CF Chaparrals only had two visible screws with two hidden beneath the scales. This makes them look cleaner and this a bit more classy imo. I assume that Spyderco changed the scales for a good reason though. One guess would be that CFs friability could be the reason for the 4 screws through the scales vs 2. Shock would be distributed through more anchor points and if one were to crack to the screw, there's more to hold the scale on. This is just speculation though. They might have done it to make the scale sit more evenly on the liners, or another reason all together.

Is anyone else aware of changes to the Chaparral since it's introduction?