Urban size discussion

[sal]

I would like to hear some thoughts on a current question with the size of the Urban;

I hope we have enough Brits here to get opinions and I'l also post this on the British forum.

We made the UKPK as a gamble for the UK market. My crystal ball has cataracts, but some things were clear and the future of slip joints looked real to me because of new laws. It was slow to gain traction, but now, many years later, it is a regular item appreciated by many besides the Brits.

Later came the Urban and the Squeak in an effort to get sizes closer to desires. The UK had a 3" blade, the Urban was to have a 2.5" blade and the Squeak was made with a 2" blade. Then I designed the DK handle to fit the DK blade, which was planned to ultimately use a 2.75" round hole blade with the same handle. This was to be the Metropolitan.

The rub came in was when we realized that we'd been making the Urban for a while and the blade was actually 2.6" which was too close to 2.5" and 2.75" to make the metropolitan. Then we discussed making the Urban a "proper" 2.5" blade to create the distinction and thus move forward with the Metro. Now with the 2.5" Urban in the market, I'm getting complaints to go back to the 2.6" blade.

Id like to get this sorted and make the Urban at 2,6" and forget the Metro, or make both models 1/4" apart?

sal

[Mushroom]

Maybe the complaints to go back to a 2.6" blade were from people that were unaware of the plans for a 2.75" Metropolitan?

I personally like that the Urban is now a true 2.5". When it was 2.6" it was illegal to carry in Boston, even as a slip joint. I can't speak for the UK market but I do think it would be a good idea to make both models 1/4" apart.

[bbturbodad]

The issue I have with the last Urban I bought (HH S90V) is the shape of the blade vs. previous versions. The tip is so high it slips off what I'm cutting all the time. I much prefer the shape of the K390 variant for a leaf blade.

[ChrisinHove]

I’ve put a poll up on the Spyderco U.K. Facebook fan group.

My personal preference would be to add the Metropolitan into the range.

[elena86]

Thank you Sal for opening this thread. I allways said that my beloved K390 Urban(I own three of them) is one of the best pocket knives ever made. It's one of your best designs( the best being the Dragonfly2) IMHO. When you decided to shorten the blade I was devasted. I bought the HH exclusive in S90V not realizing that it has the 2.5 blade until I opened it. Fit and finish included It just looks off with that chubby blade and all the other issues. I allways hoped and prayed for a 2.75 Urban... man, that would be the ultimate slipit. I like the Urban more than the UKPK... it's more compact and the most important thing for me, it is way thinner behind the edge. I wouldn't release another model(the Metropolitan) instead I would upgrade the Urban with a 2.75'' blade and a better stainless steel(N690Co is ok though) and move it to Taichung or do something about QC in the Maniago plant. It's hit or miss with those guys. I could only dream of an Urban in CTS-XHP with a 2.75'' blade. The next logical step would be a 2.75''-3'' Dragonfly2. THAT would be my dream locking pocket knife.

P.S Just drop the 2.5'' Urban. That 2.5'' blade ruins the design of the blade ...

[archangel]

This thread is related mostly to UK regulations, so I won't participate in the discussion. I salute you Sal for including the affected folks in finding the best solutions. It's gonna be good not just for the UK.

Off-topic, yet still belonging to the subject of legally compliant folders: please don't drop the project of a large >3" slipjoint Spydie. Blade length does not matter in Germany, as long as the blade is not locking...

[austrian_spyder_fan]

I'm from Austria where neither size nor locking matter.
But i really like the UKPK and almost a little more the Urban.
I don't like the SpyDK because its very pointy and less leaf shape.
A Metropolitan in 2,75" whould be great.
And why not a Concept for a Metropolitan XL in 3,5" for those who like it bigger?

ASF

[aicolainen]

I really want to chime in on this one, although the legal sides of this doesn’t apply to me.
I jumped on the HH Urban in G10 and S90V, and I’m totally in love with the handle. There is simply no other pocket knife of any brand that melts into my hand like the Urban.
Unfortunately the perfect handle can’t make up for what its missing in the blade department, so I simply end up not carrying it.
Personally I would look toward other designs if I needed a sub 2.5” folder, this one just becomes to chubby. So PLEASE Sal, whatever you decide to call it, make a knife with a blade that take advantage of the full length of the current Urban handle. It won’t be legal everywhere, but it will be epic!

[Jim Malone]

I would like to add that the UKPK is also very popular in Germany due to the fact that you can either have a one- hand opener OR a lock, not a combination of the two in a pocket knife. The UKPK - Squeek and Urban are one of the few ( if not only ) legal one handed blades to carry and seem to be very popular in Germany. I'm not German but bought a UKPK because my in-laws live in Germany and my wife can carry her Squeek there. I can pocket a UKPK. I find the UKPK a great knife to carry in shorts due to it's weight. My wife likes her pink squeek as well due to it's non threatening colour and shape and thicker blade withd. But regarding the blade lenght for me personally there isn't a real need imho for a new knife with a few mm lenght difference between the UKPK and the Urban. But i realise that due to the fact that some countries have very limited options ( UK, Germany, Denmark) and having a choice in a non locking knife is nice. I really like the UKPK but for me it's even on the smallish side due to having big hands and beeing used to carry bigger blades ( yojumbo, military, Shaman) . But i think a 4th model is nice to have for the European market. I would even like a bigger blade if it's technically possible to design a "non-lock" that opens smooth without the blade collapsing on it's own weight. So i might made your decision even more difficult with this info.

[J D Wijbenga]

I am a big fan of the Urban and have the Elmax and AEB-L versions. Those blades lengths are excellent! If that is 2.6 inch, that would be my choice to go with.

[ladybug93]

i don't have any of these knives, but i think there's no reason for a 2.75" blade if there's no law for a 2.75" blade. in other words, i'd want a 2.5" if that was the law and a 3" if that was the law. if the blade is 2.6" or 2.75", no one can legally carry it where the law says 2.5" and they're stuck with 0.5" less blade than they're allowed to carry. it makes much more sense to me to design the knives to work within legal limits, especially where that is the point of the design.

[cesma]

I would like to hear some thoughts on a current question with the size of the Urban;

I hope we have enough Brits here to get opinions and I'l also post this on the British forum.

We made the UKPK as a gamble for the UK market. My crystal ball has cataracts, but some things were clear and the future of slip joints looked real to me because of new laws. It was slow to gain traction, but now, many years later, it is a regular item appreciated by many besides the Brits.

Later came the Urban and the Squeak in an effort to get sizes closer to desires. The UK had a 3" blade, the Urban was to have a 2.5" blade and the Squeak was made with a 2" blade. Then I designed the DK handle to fit the DK blade, which was planned to ultimately use a 2.75" round hole blade with the same handle. This was to be the Metropolitan.

The rub came in was when we realized that we'd been making the Urban for a while and the blade was actually 2.6" which was too close to 2.5" and 2.75" to make the metropolitan. Then we discussed making the Urban a "proper" 2.5" blade to create the distinction and thus move forward with the Metro. Now with the 2.5" Urban in the market, I'm getting complaints to go back to the 2.6" blade.

Id like to get this sorted and make the Urban at 2,6" and forget the Metro, or make both models 1/4" apart?

sal

I've never handled a Urban, i prefer the ukpk; i've got police 3, sage 2, caly 3(i hoor ti find a caly 3,5 un EU), air (my most used), sprig, burch....i think the design concept of the pingo is the right way if we speaking of city knife design concept and if work on it someone like P.Wilson or G.Bradley......

[Dazen]

I for one love the Urban, and love my K390 and S90V equally even though they have their differences. I will personally buy one more Urban (damasteel/ivory G10) and I think I’m done. Well maybe 2 if there is ever a Wharncliffe SE LC200N version!

My question is; where is there a law not permitting a blade longer than 2.5” AND a non-locking knife, that also allows one handed opening? I say this because if there isn’t, just discontinue the Urban and produce the Metropolitan in Golden. That way we all get what we want including the fit and finish we’ve come to love from the UKPK. The Urban will go out with a bang with the Damasteel version anyway!

[ASmitty]

I love the Slipits, so I’m all for more diversity in that line. I’d prefer to see the Urban stay 2.5 and get the Metropolitan too.

[Holland]

The issue I have with the last Urban I bought (HH S90V) is the shape of the blade vs. previous versions. The tip is so high it slips off what I'm cutting all the time. I much prefer the shape of the K390 variant for a leaf blade.

Very telling photo. The K390 version is the only Urban i have owned and really liked the blade shape and size.

The urban at the top of the photo looks more like the squeak.

I vote for the 2.6 inch blade

[austrian_spyder_fan]

The difference is minimal and doesn't bother me.

ASF

[Eee]

The issue I have with the last Urban I bought (HH S90V) is the shape of the blade vs. previous versions. The tip is so high it slips off what I'm cutting all the time. I much prefer the shape of the K390 variant for a leaf blade.

I agree completely with your point about the high tip.
I’ve got a fairly individual perspective partly because of the 3 Urbans I own. To start, I like the Urban, it fits my hand better than the UKPK and is in some sort of ‘Goldilocks’ zone for my hands. There’s no legal difference in the UK, I just prefer the Urban. If you were in an even more restrictive jurisdiction like Boston then that difference would become really important.

I don’t miss the extra length on the s90v Urban in comparison to the marginally longer Aeb-l model. I have an Elmax Urban which has lost the vital 0.1 inch off the tip (a lesson about loaning knives for me there). I don’t miss the extra length there either, but prefer the blade angle. As far as I can see when Spyderco have shortened the design, they have kept the same curve along the spine and brought the edge up to it. When I reground the tip on mine, I brought the spine down to the edge. This means the tip is lower, there is slightly less belly and a more positive blade angle. None of this will stop me buying future Urbans though.

It’s probably similar to me preferring a Rescue UKPK to a Leaf SE model, it just presents the tip better for me. Both good, just different. It’s also telling me I should track down a Wharncliffe and if the Metro or Urban came in a Wharnie I’d buy.

It feels selfish to deny people who need a 2.5 inch blade access to such a great design, but please drop the tip. I’d like to try the Metropolitan, but bigger isn’t always better.

[TheRandomCarry]

Hey guys! A Brit here!

I'll add my thoughts to this, which I often feel are overlooked by people who are very deep in the knife hobby.

But first.... Some background to my Slipit collection....

UKPK BD1 (original)
UKPK HH Edition
UKPK Salt - LC2000N
Urban N690co (newer smaller blade)
Urban S30V HH Edition (newer smaller blade)
Urban S90V HH Edition - Returned due to poor F+F

So, this might be hard to believe for people carrying 4" locking knives, but the UKPK looks like a machete to the *vast majority* of the UK population.

I know it sounds laughable, but:

1. Pocket knives just aren't commonly carried.

2. The UKPK shape/size just looks worlds away from what *most* people would think of for a pocket knife, which would be a SAK or single blade traditional Barlow etc.

I carry my Urban 99% of the time. It is more than enough for the EDC tasks needed in the UK (for most people), it's significantly less threatening to people who aren't knowledgeable on the knife hobby and it's more discreet.

The Urban for me is close to the perfect UK EDC......Much more so than the UKPK in my opinion.

That being said, having looked at the pics of the older Urban with it's 2.6" blade, I think my preference would be closer to that size (and blade shape!)

So actually, if a 2.75" option was being touted, I think it could take the mantle of "Best UK EDC".

It's *clearly* below the 3" UK Law, which the UKPK flirts with too closely if you ask me; and if the handle could be closer in size to the current Urban, rather than the UKPK, I think it would be a winner.

The current Urban looks to have enough room to extend the blade length a little, as others have commented previously.

So yeah, I can definitely see all 3 working in the line up.

UKPK - 3" blade to offer a knife that is to the very limits of the UK Law.

Metro - 2.75" blade for a smaller "people friendly" option compared with the UKPK, but a bigger "upgrade" over the current Urban.

Urban - 2.5" blade for many UK EDC jobs which is more discreet than the other 2, whilst still offering plenty of blade for those important tasks....

Like cutting up our very British sandwiches!

Anyway, just want to reiterate other comments about how nice it is to even be asked the question in the first place.

Thank you Sal!

[Matus]

I am a user located in Germany, so I am not too concerned about +/- 0.1” but I got the Urban (the basic N690co) as it looks very non intimidating. The UKPK feels ‘big’ closed and the blade is quite pointy - plus the handle butt is shaped much better on the Urban. I like (love, actually), the ergonomics, the FRN texture, the stiff action (love how the second detent - when closing - is stiffer than the first one) - it gives a lot of confidence.

I would prefer to see it in thinner stock AND thinner edge. Let me explain - current stock is not an issue per se and is probably part of the safe feeling, stiff action. But the whole blade outside the pivot/spring area could be ground thinner. If 2 mm is enough for the Chaparral, then it would be enough for the Urban.

I was VERY tempted by the Heinie S90V version, but the rather mixed feedback and price kept me from ordering one. I would also love to see it in the weight category of the UKPK, but I would not call it heavy.

I agree that the blade shape on the k390 version is the best of them, but I am fine with the basic one.

Please give us some more steels (BD1N, XHP, S90V, LC200N, etc) if possible and maybe some different FRN colors, that would be sweet.

[GarageBoy]

2.5 is fine if it can be the shape of the existing, but that's just me

I totally understand about the 2.5" being the law (was glad these were around when NYC had the no gravity knife law, so I'd like the same thought applied to our friends in Boston etc)