What ever happened to CTS-20CP?

[Donut]

This steel was featured on one of the first Para 2 sprints. It was Carpenter's version of CPM-S90V. I don't know if I've ever heard anyone say it was better or worse than CPM-S90V. No one ever seems to talk about it.

Why haven't we seen this steel on anything but that one sprint run? I feel like we could use Carpenter's version of CPM-S90V on a dozen other models.

What is everyone's thoughts? Open to discussion.

[nerdlock]

I have often wondered about this. It seems that among Spyderco steels, this one is the rarest.

Could it be that production costs, such as grinding and heat treatment, have made any production run using this steel financially unfeasible?

It's quite a shame since the PM2 release of this has been elevated into a safe queen / Facebook / Instagram / social media flex for the few individuals who have managed to own a copy of this.

[soc_monki]

I have often wondered about this. It seems that among Spyderco steels, this one is the rarest.

Could it be that production costs, such as grinding and heat treatment, have made any production run using this steel financially unfeasible?

It's quite a shame since the PM2 release of this has been elevated into a safe queen / Facebook / Instagram / social media flex for the few individuals who have managed to own a copy of this.

I doubt it's production costs. Otherwise spyderco wouldn't have maxamet as a production steel! Especially if 20cp is analogous to s90v.

I think it's probably more to do with the fact that carpenter seems to be harder to actually get steel from in a timely manner. That's why cold steel switched to s35vn from cts-xhp. They couldn't get xhp in the time frame or quantity they required, so they went with another option.

Besides, if it's basically s90v, why not just use more s90v? I used to not like it but after using it more, sharpening it more, I've grown to love it.

[Evil D]

This was my first sprint purchase and I've used the heck out of it. It's probably so close to S90V that most people would never tell the two apart.

[Brock O Lee]

It was also my first sprint (and Spyderco). It is still in use, mostly handling the recycling. The steel is very similar to S90V in my experience.

[JonLeBlanc]

Wasn't 20CP intended to be Carpenter's version of Bohler M390?

[bearfacedkiller]

Wasn't 20CP intended to be Carpenter's version of Bohler M390?

204P is their version of m390. 20CP is their version of S90V.

I am guessing that S90V is either cheaper or easier to procure.

[TkoK83Spy]

They just changed the "C" to a "4" and called it a day!

[bearfacedkiller]

It’s also sometimes called CPM-420V. On one hand anything that sounds like it is a 400 series steel scares people off. On the other hand, that is a lot of V’s!

There is also the whole 420 thing if you are into that. I am sure there are quite a few that would love to have a blade with 420 on it.

[soc_monki]

It’s also sometimes called CPM-420V. On one hand anything that sounds like it is a 400 series steel scares people off. On the other hand, that is a lot of V’s!

There is also the whole 420 thing if you are into that. I am sure there are quite a few that would love to have a blade with 420 on it.

420hc (on bucks) is just fine... Now if it was 420j2...might have an issue!

[JacksonKnives]

If you think the comparison between CTS-204P and CTS-20CP is confusing, just wait till you add CPM-20CV into the mix!

Adding to speculation about why we don't see more 20CP:

• S90V might not be as rare, but it's well-known among Spyderco collectors as a "premium run" signifier.
• The Crucible S-series alloys use a numbering system that's (mostly) sequential, fairly easy to decode and well-known to the knife-buying public. Carpenter's scheme is confusing to the point of misleading buyers.

S90V fills the "high-wear-resistance" niche well, but Maxamet, M390/204P/20CV and S110V each offer properties that some users will prefer, while higher-toughness alloys are currently trending. 4V and Cruwear are very popular, Spyderco have themselves developed Spy27 on the higher-toughness side of things, and Magnacut is soaking up enthusiasm while we wait for it to be widely available.

Which is to say, there's plenty of reason to offer a few runs per year in either S90V or 20CP, but not both, and deliberately alternating them would probably be more confusing that it would be worth even if Spyderco could get a "deal" from Carpenter.

[Evil D]

It’s also sometimes called CPM-420V. On one hand anything that sounds like it is a 400 series steel scares people off. On the other hand, that is a lot of V’s!

There is also the whole 420 thing if you are into that. I am sure there are quite a few that would love to have a blade with 420 on it.

Whoever is first naming a steel 420THC is gonna be rich just from flea market sales alone

[TkoK83Spy]

It’s also sometimes called CPM-420V. On one hand anything that sounds like it is a 400 series steel scares people off. On the other hand, that is a lot of V’s!

There is also the whole 420 thing if you are into that. I am sure there are quite a few that would love to have a blade with 420 on it.

Whoever is first naming a steel 420THC is gonna be rich just from flea market sales alone

Needs to be stonewashed with flakes of crystally oranges and purples!

[Pokey]

It’s also sometimes called CPM-420V. On one hand anything that sounds like it is a 400 series steel scares people off. On the other hand, that is a lot of V’s!

There is also the whole 420 thing if you are into that. I am sure there are quite a few that would love to have a blade with 420 on it.

Whoever is first naming a steel 420THC is gonna be rich just from flea market sales alone

Needs to be stonewashed with flakes of crystally oranges and purples!

And you get one free in every bag of Doritos.

[Sharp Guy]

Don't be bogartin' that steel!

[RamZar]

CTS-204P and CTS-XHP have similar Edge Retention to CTS-20CP but better Corrosion Resistance.



https://www.carpentertechnology.com/hub ... Alloys.pdf

[nerdlock]

CTS-204P and CTS-XHP have similar Edge Retention to CTS-20CP but better Corrosion Resistance.



https://www.carpentertechnology.com/hub ... Alloys.pdf

I think that chart must be a gross and sweeping oversimplification and generalization of the steel...

Based on the chemical composition from that chart, 20CP has about:
2.2 Carbon, 13 Chromium, 9 Vanadium and 1.2 Molybdenum

These values are comparable to S90v (taken from Larrin's article on S90v):
2.3 Carbon, 14 Chromium, 9 Vanadium and 1 Molybdenum
(source: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/09/28/ ... eat-treat/)

I doubt that on edge retention alone 204P and XHP would be more or less equal to 20CP.

[Larrin]

Carpenter is known in recent years for having a low priority on knife steel delivery, so that would be my guess. If they wanted S90V type steel it would be much easier to buy S90V.

[JonLeBlanc]

Wasn't 20CP intended to be Carpenter's version of Bohler M390?

204P is their version of m390. 20CP is their version of S90V.

I am guessing that S90V is either cheaper or easier to procure.

oh jeez, why are there so many letters and numbers?!

[Chumango]

When the PM2 came out in this steel Jim Ankerson tested it:

viewtopic.php?t=49269

About the steel generations discussed in that thread - everyone uses a modified second generation PM process now but there's only one who calls it third generation, and that is Bohler. In reality they all produce very similar products by very similar processes.