Let's talk about cutting edge vs blade length

[Doc Dan]

We talk a lot about blade length and that is useful. However, we have not talked about cutting edge length in a thread in a while. There are some instances where blade length could be more important and that is certainly what the law looks at when deciding legality. However, the cutting edge is what does the job. Cutting edge length is sometimes surprising, too.








Here we can see the Manbug lined up cutting edge to cutting edge and not blade length. We can see that it has nearly as much cutting edge as a Dragonfly and a Lil Native. Also, there is not a whole lot of difference between it and the older Urban Lightweight (the new one is about the same as the Lil Native).



Of course the Manbug's edge length is outclassed by the much larger Delica.



The older K390 Urban Lightweight has an edge that compares pretty well to the Delica even though its blade is shorter. The Delica is still longer, but the knife is longer too.



The cutting edge on the Delica is outclassed by the much larger Endura, as you'd expect. However...




The Endura has nearly as much cutting edge as the larger Military. This is surprising. The Endura is more pocket friendly and less bulky and is still very capable.

Blade length is not the only thing. The business portion of the blade is more important, I think. Yes, there are times when a blade is too short for the task at hand. For example, a really large pumpkin is better carved with a Delica than a Manbug. But most cutting can be done with a smaller knife than people realize. The only thing there is that a good handle is very important, all too often. Still, the cutting edge rules most of the time.

[VooDooChild]

The spydiechef and stretch 1 have a lot of cutting edge for their blade length.

Im at the point where I dont invest any concern over the "specs" anymore. If it works I use it.

[TkoK83Spy]

Im at the point where I dont invest any concern over the "specs" anymore. If it works I use it.

I'm in the same boat, I've never paid attention to how much a knife weighs, or what the exact cutting edge length is, or length of the knife itself. As long as it appeals to me and feels good in hand, it's good to me. The Manix is my favorite knife I couldn't tell you the answer to any of those 3 things haha!

[aicolainen]

I don't obsess over these things any longer, but I don't neglect it either.

On some folders I like as much blade and edge as possible for its handle size, this is typically larger size folders that I want to use for food prep while hiking or camping.

It's also the case that I like mid-sized to smaller folders, not because I don't like longer blades or edges or that there are legal restrictions, but they usually fit my narrow hand better, so I usually prefer that the available space in the handle is utilized well to give me as much knife as possible in that small package. I really like the Chaparral in that regard.
Regarding the Manbug having similar edge length to the DF2, that's not really surprising when one compare the designs. And it's a great comparison that highlights how good Spyderco is at providing options. You can get a knife in a small an light package that has just enough blade and prioritizes grip, or you can get a knife in a very small and light package that has just enough handle and prioritizes edge.
Now I would say even the DF2 blade/edge could be slightly longer, but we're not speaking about a whole lot more so it doesn't bother me. The HH Urban on the other hand is one that annoys me. Not because it's bad, but I can't use it without wondering how it would have been with a longer blade.

[Doc Dan]

Specs are specs, but the issue is cutting edge versus blade length. Some knives are more efficient in that regard than others. Knives with choils tend to have less cutting edge than knives without, but not always.

[Evil D]

This is exactly the sort of stuff I love to obsess over, otherwise why would I even bother spending this kind of money on knives?


I do prefer larger knives no doubt, but I could get by with smaller knives up until either 1) blade length isn't long enough to accomplish a cut or 2) handle size and potentially overall strength of the knife aren't enough to use the knife hard enough to accomplish a cut. For example a lot of the stuff I do for work just can NOT be done with a Manbug/Ladybug mostly due to how small the handle is which limits how much force I can put through the knife. Hypothetically speaking if we had a knife that used a Ladybug blade in a Military handle with a Military size lock and pivot (or in other words a regular Military that has been sharpened down to a Ladybug sized blade) then yes I could do practically any task up until blade length becomes an issue (that knife wouldn't work for crap as a cake knife).

Specifically speaking on overall length vs edge length, this is another reason I've lost interest in choils/ricassos. It's just more efficient all around to have the max amount of cutting edge possible for a given blade length. Take the Mantra for example, it has darn near a Military size edge but in a Delica sized package. That's smart design IMO.

[Doc Dan]

This is exactly the sort of stuff I love to obsess over, otherwise why would I even bother spending this kind of money on knives?


I do prefer larger knives no doubt, but I could get by with smaller knives up until either 1) blade length isn't long enough to accomplish a cut or 2) handle size and potentially overall strength of the knife aren't enough to use the knife hard enough to accomplish a cut. For example a lot of the stuff I do for work just can NOT be done with a Manbug/Ladybug mostly due to how small the handle is which limits how much force I can put through the knife. Hypothetically speaking if we had a knife that used a Ladybug blade in a Military handle with a Military size lock and pivot (or in other words a regular Military that has been sharpened down to a Ladybug sized blade) then yes I could do practically any task up until blade length becomes an issue (that knife wouldn't work for crap as a cake knife).

Specifically speaking on overall length vs edge length, this is another reason I've lost interest in choils/ricassos. It's just more efficient all around to have the max amount of cutting edge possible for a given blade length. Take the Mantra for example, it has darn near a Military size edge but in a Delica sized package. That's smart design IMO.

Yes it is a smart design. This is a good reason to harp on Sal to get the leaf bladed Rockjumper out. That has an edge all the way to handle. An XL version would be even better.

Cutting edge rules, but sometimes I do need something longer or something easier to hold on to.

[James Y]

It’s probably hard to tell in this photo, but out of these three knives, the knife with the shortest blade and the shortest handle/overall length, the CRK Inkosi, actually has the longest cutting edge. Much has to do with its edge “belly.” The Para 3’s edge length is only a minuscule amount shorter. The shortest edge of the three is the Delica’s.

The edge length differences are easier to see when the knives are held two at a time, facing each other edge-to-edge.



But TBH, for myself, the most important thing is how a knife feels and works for ME, more than getting the most edge length as possible out of a blade.

Jim

[JRinFL]

I guess it’s good that hammers and axes don’t get measured like knives do these days. Look at their work surface to handle ratio!

The handle is your primary interface with any knife and it should rarely, if ever, take second place to edge ratio. Sal gets it, many don’t. Wood carving knives take things to the extreme with hand filling handles and tiny blades. I doubt many wood carvers would want it any other way.

Edited to add: The choil, while part of the blade steel, could and I think should be considered part of the handle. They allow for what is essentially a longer handle that folds along with the blade.

[James Y]

I guess it’s good that hammers and axes don’t get measured like knives do these days. Look at their work surface to handle ratio!

The handle is your primary interface with any knife and it should rarely, if ever, take second place to edge ratio. Sal gets it, many don’t. Wood carving knives take things to the extreme with hand filling handles and tiny blades. I doubt many wood carvers would want it any other way.

Edited to add: The choil, while part of the blade steel, could and I think should be considered part of the handle. They allow for what is essentially a longer handle that folds along with the blade.

I'm perfectly fine with handles being noticeably longer than blades in folding knives. I've used "traditional" pocketknives/ pen knives that have blades that are much shorter than the handles, especially the tiny pen blades. Also the sheepsfeet blades on stockman patterns. Longer handles provide better leverage when using small blades for precision work.

Jim

[ChrisinHove]

Interesting thoughts.

Like JRinFL I consider the choil to be essentially part of a folding handle, particularly in models like the Brouwer, which is the smaller (edge) knife for large hands par excellence.

[Evil D]

I know your point was more towards small knives being more capable than people realize but I thought these pics were relevant here too. We often think of certain knives as being really big or really small because of their overall size and seem to focus less on the actual business part of the knife which is the edge length.

This comparison of the Police 4 and Caribbean shows that even though the P4 is one of the biggest overall folders that Spyderco makes, it's really not much bigger in cutting edge than a Caribbean, which is around the same size as a Para 2 when folded up. So, you almost get Police 4 cutting edge in a Para 2 size package.








This thread has made me want to get out my Mantra again.

[VooDooChild]

Also I mentioned this in another similar thread but...

It will be pretty hard to beat a pizza cutter.

[Bill1170]

This is exactly the sort of stuff I love to obsess over, otherwise why would I even bother spending this kind of money on knives?


I do prefer larger knives no doubt, but I could get by with smaller knives up until either 1) blade length isn't long enough to accomplish a cut or 2) handle size and potentially overall strength of the knife aren't enough to use the knife hard enough to accomplish a cut. For example a lot of the stuff I do for work just can NOT be done with a Manbug/Ladybug mostly due to how small the handle is which limits how much force I can put through the knife. Hypothetically speaking if we had a knife that used a Ladybug blade in a Military handle with a Military size lock and pivot (or in other words a regular Military that has been sharpened down to a Ladybug sized blade) then yes I could do practically any task up until blade length becomes an issue (that knife wouldn't work for crap as a cake knife).

Specifically speaking on overall length vs edge length, this is another reason I've lost interest in choils/ricassos. It's just more efficient all around to have the max amount of cutting edge possible for a given blade length. Take the Mantra for example, it has darn near a Military size edge but in a Delica sized package. That's smart design IMO.

I agree. This is what I love about my Caribbean, plenty of handle, plenty of edge, and edge clear to the handle.

On the Delica, the longer handle and sub-3” blade give good control and legality. I wouldn’t want a shorter handle.

[Bill1170]

Sorry, double post.

[Wartstein]

I know your point was more towards small knives being more capable than people realize but I thought these pics were relevant here too. We often think of certain knives as being really big or really small because of their overall size and seem to focus less on the actual business part of the knife which is the edge length.

.....

I do focus a lot on edge length. For me the subjective size of a knife is defined by lets say 75% by its cutting edge length.

A longer edge has a lot of advantages and no disadvantages for me, and makes a folder clearly more versatile.
To mention just some:
- Easier to cut stuff with wider diameter (
- More efficient cutting motion (less "back and force" as with a shorter edge, more likely to be one drawing motion, less "running out of edge before running out of material", better in whittling and the like...)
- A longer edge will stay sharp longer
- And: After a lot of work more likely have some still sharp areas

Furthermore, if I want to SHORTEN the edge: No problem to pinch grip the blade, or, as I do, just choke up on the actual edge (very controversial topic here, I know)
But: I can´t make a given edge LONGER.

Of course there are still advantages in longer blades with relatively short edges (but also true for long blades with LONG edges)
- Reach
- More clearance for the fingers when cutting on a board
- Easier to keep the pivot area away from ",messy" stuff.

Said it before:
The Manix for example to me is a small knife with great grip options, but all the limitations a short edge just brings
While my S35VN Tenacious is a full sized EDC folder.

Speaking of the Tenacious: Comparing it to lets say a Para 3 is a bit like Caribbean vs PM2
- The Tenacious is just 2mm longer than a Para 3 when closed...
... but has the cutting edge of an Endura (or even more when calculating the more pronounced belly) - see pic below:
On top: Tenacious: Below: Endura...

[cabfrank]

Great picture. I had not idea the Tenacious' blade was so close to Endura length.

[JRinFL]

These discussions allows seem to forget that Sal and Eric often design knives to meet certain blade length restrictions while avoiding a slavish devotion to the blade/handle ratio nonsense.

[JSumm]

Yes it is a smart design. This is a good reason to harp on Sal to get the leaf bladed Rockjumper out. That has an edge all the way to handle. An XL version would be even better.

Cutting edge rules, but sometimes I do need something longer or something easier to hold on to.

Yes please on the leaf bladed Rock Jumper. And move that tip just a tad to the end of the handle. Lots of edge on that small knife.

[VooDooChild]

Im going to mention the spydiechef again. I was looking at mine today and realised it has the same edge length as a pacific salt/ endura 4.