Spyderco Forums

Okay, Sword and Shield (is SAS okay?), here's one for you: no man has the right to impose his definition of the purpose of an object on the owner of that object. Not even the manufacturer can do that. The manufacturer's purpose in the design is irrelevent to the owner's use of that object. TRANSLATION: Regardless of a manufacturer's design, there is really no such thing as a 'fighting knife.' Wether we are talking about a butterfly knife or a switchblade, a knife is for whatever YOU have in mind. The purpose is in the owner's mind, not in the knife!! Those in the gov't and in law enforcement should keep that in mind.

Some famous questions:

"I got a BM AFCK S and BM970 S.
Which one is the most tactical?"
Any thoughts? Hummm?

"Should I use my Endura or my Delica when I am on duty oversea?"
I need an answer !

"Can I use my Sebenza to open oysters?"
Yes?

Sorry Plato, just spoiling your thread !!!! ;-D

SAS is OK, S&S is fine. As I usually say, call me whatever you want, just don't call me late for dinner! <img src="tongue.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

Sounds like a variant of the is-ought divide; that is, what an object is used for cannot be used to determine what it ought to be used for. Just because rain waters plants in some areas doesn't require that rain ought to water plants, and nothing else.

Just because the current use of a knife is a fighter doesn't mean it ought to be used as such.

Try Marcus Aurelius for another version. The First Principles state that an object (or person) acts according to their "First Principle", or their base nature. At base, the nature of a knife is to cut. Subdividing it any further is corrupting its nature.

The Man's Prayer- I am a man. But I can change. If I have to. I guess...

Thank you SAS. You are definitley on my level. Great minds think alike.

Can I use my Glock to punch a hole in sheet metal?

Welcome to the <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>co Forums, Plato! RKBA!

Welcome to the Spyderco forum Plato. Sounds like we're steppin' in tall cotton?

Would not Plato's "pure form" of knife just be more encompassing that the "pure form" for a fighting knife? Couldn't a knife designed for a specific purpose actually be less effective for another purpose?

Does not the designer "own" the design and does that not "impose" the definition of the design?

If the "owner" of Ferrari chose to use it as a plow, does that mean that it IS a plow?

Regarding the Govt and law enforcement, are not the laws designed and written to avoid the thought process?

Just messin'. Thanx for visiting.

sal

Hi Sal.

I guess I live in tall cotton.

Yes, a knife designed for a specific purpose would be less effective for another application. The Mariner is a case in point: its severely curved edge makes it impractical for most applications. It is designed to cut nets. But it would be a mistake to say "Hey, you can't gut a deer with that. That's for cutting nets." I've never gutted a deer, but I think the Mariner would be perfect for that. That makes my point. Spyderco may have 'designed' it to cut nets, but if you find it useful to gut game, Spyderco can't argue with you.

Yes, the designer 'owns' the design, but what if someone bought the knife unaware of the purpose of that design? What if he, in his 'ignorance', thought it useful for something altogether different? How can a purpose be imposed without being communicated?

Obviously, you wouldn't use a Police Model to build model cars as if it were an X-acto knife. Practicallity is in the eye of the beholder. A knife that works well for me may not work well for you in the same circumstances. That's why I can't impose my 'practicallity' on you. Everyone's skill is different.

As far as laws being written to avoid the thought process, that sounds like an accurate assessment of North American culture today. Americans don't think for themselves anymore, and Canadians never knew how to think in the first place. That's why our gov'ts punish 'possession' rather than bad behaviour. I think most cops have good sense though. They are good at judging by appearance and attitude. If you look irresponsible and dirty, and give them an attitude, you may lose the knife in your pocket, or get charged for 'possessing a weapon', regardless of what you use it for. If you look clean and wear nice clothes, a cop probably won't have a problem with your Endura. Age is relevent too. Cops pick on young guys more than older guys. The courts may be blind, but cops know who they are dealing with. They are usually reasonable. Its checkpoints at tourist attractions that worry me. They are like airline security. Try to get into Cedar Point with a Police Model. Much of our society has been bitten by the lie that evil resides in objects like guns and knives.

Plato food for thought,

Always you must hold a weapon in your mind before you hold it in your hand.



Hi everyone, first post, nice place, great knives.

Thank you for that Bors. Very good point.

I was thinking, after my last post, just wear a Tilley Hat and you shouldn't have any problems. I love my khaki T3 Tilley.

Just another thought- Refer back to Plato's cave analogy.

In the cave, a man is chained to the floor of a cave, his back to the fire. Objects pass behind him, but all he sees are distorted reflections of the true reality. Is it not possible that all knife designs are simply this flickering shadow?

The Man's Prayer- I am a man. But I can change. If I have to. I guess...

Plato I agree with the T3 love mine aswell. I do think that Canadians think though...we are just run by our Southern Ontarion suits and they have very little knowledge(about the outdoors and hunting/fishing/camping)but very much say. I will be astonished when they solve a crime because thye found the registered gun that was used. What we need to do is get people in the gov't that know alittle about the outdoors and all that that encompasses. But until a bear walks up Parliament Hill and bites some MP in the*****the sping bear hunt will never open up again and us folks in the north will just have to be really careful taking out the garbage because of the over population of bears. Sorry to get toatlly OT from your thread.
In regards to knife philosophy...always carry one, ok two or three and that way you are always covered. Take Care!

"everything else is just a jeep"

Hi CKE. Yes, it's too bad about the bear hunt. I hope things turn around. Why don't Canadians wake up and stop voting Liberal!?!!

As far as carrying knives is concerned, there are two ways of looking at it:

1) I don't know that I will need one today, so I won't carry one", or

2) "I don't know that I won't need one today, so I will carry one just in case."

I have lived by the second principle since I was a teenager (I'm 36). I consider this 'theoretical thinking.' "IN THEORY, I MAY NEED A KNIFE TODAY. THEREFORE I WILL CARRY ONE."
I consider #1 'practical thinking.' "I DIDN'T NEED A KNIFE YESTERDAY, SO I WON'T CARRY ONE TODAY."

Have you ever noticed that you don't see the opportunities or need to use a knife until you start to carry one? I think most of us started to carry a knife because we thought about it in a theoretical way. We said "This would be good to have. I might need this."

None of us knows what the day will bring when we get up in the morning. We don't know when we will need a pen, or a Leatherman, or a flashlight, or a knife. If you wait till you need one before you start to carry one, you won't have it when you need it.

I have lived with a fear of being searched by police for many years. I have always carried a SwissChamp, a Leatherman, a 560 Buck knife, and often, an Endura. I would like to have 2 or 3 Spydercos. I would like to have one in my left pocket for when my right hand might be incapacitated in some difficult situation. Imagine trying to get your Endura from your right pocket with your left hand! I think I would pull a muscle.

The problem is, I would be faced with a stupid question from a practical thinker like "Why do you have so many knives?" Then people suspect you. Can you imagine having to empty your pockets for a cop? How embarrassing! I hate being scrutinized. How do you answer a question like "What do you intend to do with that?" Practical thinkers can only think in terms of some concrete purpose. They can't appreciate the 'preparedness philosophy': "I should always have it." They might be able to understand one knife, but if you have 2 or 3 Spydies, you must be up to no good. How do you answer an authority figure who holds YOUR Spydie in his hand and says "This is a weapon!" when you say it's not.

Who gets to decide what YOUR Police Model is for, and when and where you should carry it?

One thing I have learned is that if I carry something for a specific purpose, and only have it when I am certain I will need it, I will not have it when I need it. Try to carry a Mini-Mag or a Surefire ONLY at night. You go out during the day, but don't get home till midnight. You needed the Surefire at 10pm. You didn't have it because "you only carry it at night." Not too smart.

Our society has been corrupted by political correctness, and put us on the defensive.

Heres a story for you Plato...I went up to a local police officer. In hand I had a Calypso Jr and the other a Military. I asked him if it was legal to carry either one. He said as long as they are not concealed your a fine to carry them. He opened the Millie and went to close it ane hand it back. He could not figure the liner lock and just handed it back to me handle first. My interpretation of the moral of the story is: even though he could not figure out the knife it was still just a knife nothing more nothing less.
I have read you never admit that the knife is a weapon, if they ask you if you have a weapon on you you say no but I do have a pocket knife...This is all just hypothetical because other than asking a few police officers I have never been stopped and searched and had to justify why I have two, sometimes three Spydie on me. It is a tough call. Take Care!!
PS: I never voted Liberal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"everything else is just a jeep"

CKE, I think the difference with you is that you live so far north. That's 'outdoors' country. I think you have less political correctness and statist sentiment up there. As far as that goes, all of Ontario from Ottawa to Windsor is the worst place to be. Once you get out towards Lake Simcoe and that whole western half, they might be more relaxed. I have even heard of the RCMP responding to complaints about handguns by telling the gunowner "Charlie, please keep your gun in your bag. You cause problems when people see it." But that's not in Toronto or London. That's way out in the boonies.

The key to carrying knives is maturity and responsibility. Handle the knife responsibly and be mature in dealing with others. Forgive easily and don't offend others. Then your knife is seen in that context. The thing is, you always provide the context that others will see your knife in.

Of course that's not to say there are no morons in your life who will see evil in your pocket, or in your head, regardless of your character. Some people are so thick in the head, all that matters to them is that the knife COULD be used as a weapon, so as far as they're concerned, your character and intentions mean nothing; you still shouldn't be carrying it. I am so sick and tired of dimwits who think it is unwise to carry a knife that I feel like moving to Alberta.