Military 2

[amateur blacksmith]

After using my PM2 in CTS 204P the last few days I've changed my mind on the Military 2. I think maybe I will try one. The PM2 is a really good knife, but to me, is a little small.

A scaled up PM2 in most regards would for me make a better more practical knife. I hope there is no increase in blade thickness over the PM2.

I see the compression lock Millie as a PM2 XL or at least I hope in practice, (albeit with the Millie blade) is what it is.

[JacksonKnives]

Since the last time I thought about a revised Military, I discovered front flippers.

IMO extending the tang to make the Millie a front flipper would be a cool extra trick. Not necessary, of course, since the hole is better for opening in nearly every way, but it wouldn't hurt the design in any way as far as I can tell.

[Wartstein]

After using my PM2 in CTS 204P the last few days I've changed my mind on the Military 2. I think maybe I will try one. The PM2 is a really good knife, but to me, is a little small.

A scaled up PM2 in most regards would for me make a better more practical knife. I hope there is no increase in blade thickness over the PM2.

I see the compression lock Millie as a PM2 XL or at least I hope in practice, (albeit with the Millie blade) is what it is.

I know Sal has said the great original Linerlock-Millie (for me almost defined by that most userfriendly locktype) will remain in the lineup, even if there´ll be a Millie 2 with a comp.lock. Still it would "sooth my soul" if they´d call such a model "PM2 XL", "PM 4" or something like that, since it would be not a Millie anymore for me (but certainly a great, large pm2-ish knife for those who prefer the comp. lock).

Btw: Did you give the linerlock Millie a fair try? If not: Perhaps you´d come to appreciate that locktype! It really has its pros over the comp. - and in some regards over all other locktypes imho.

[amateur blacksmith]

After using my PM2 in CTS 204P the last few days I've changed my mind on the Military 2. I think maybe I will try one. The PM2 is a really good knife, but to me, is a little small.

A scaled up PM2 in most regards would for me make a better more practical knife. I hope there is no increase in blade thickness over the PM2.

I see the compression lock Millie as a PM2 XL or at least I hope in practice, (albeit with the Millie blade) is what it is.

I know Sal has said the great original Linerlock-Millie (for me almost defined by that most userfriendly locktype) will remain in the lineup, even if there´ll be a Millie 2 with a comp.lock. Still it would "sooth my soul" if they´d call such a model "PM2 XL", "PM 4" or something like that, since it would be not a Millie anymore for me (but certainly a great, large pm2-ish knife for those who prefer the comp. lock).

Btw: Did you give the linerlock Millie a fair try? If not: Perhaps you´d come to appreciate that locktype! It really has its pros over the comp. - and in some regards over all other locktypes imho.

Hi Wartstein

I completely agree with you on the name. I see the change from the Military to Military 2 being more of a XL PM 2.
The names you outlined seem a better fit.

With regards ''have I tried the Military?'' Yes I have . I have five of them and IMHO the best folder that Spyderco makes.
My best of that 5 variants is the fluted titanium. I was lucky to pick it up while they were still available.

I agree, those that like big knives should try a military liner lock if they haven't already.

[Wartstein]

...

I know Sal has said the great original Linerlock-Millie (for me almost defined by that most userfriendly locktype) will remain in the lineup, even if there´ll be a Millie 2 with a comp.lock. Still it would "sooth my soul" if they´d call such a model "PM2 XL", "PM 4" or something like that, since it would be not a Millie anymore for me (but certainly a great, large pm2-ish knife for those who prefer the comp. lock).

Btw: Did you give the linerlock Millie a fair try? If not: Perhaps you´d come to appreciate that locktype! It really has its pros over the comp. - and in some regards over all other locktypes imho.

Hi Wartstein

I completely agree with you on the name. I see the change from the Military to Military 2 being more of a XL PM 2.
The names you outlined seem a better fit.

With regards ''have I tried the Military?'' Yes I have . I have five of them and IMHO the best folder that Spyderco makes.
My best of that 5 variants is the fluted titanium. I was lucky to pick it up while they were still available.

I agree, those that like big knives should try a military liner lock if they haven't already.

Thanks for your reply!

Ok, so you actually have more experience with the Millie than I have

It´s just that some (obviously NOT you of course!) rule out the linerlock as "oldschool - inferior" before giving it a fair try.
That being said: The comp. lock is a cool and really ingenious design! Still I think there are very few higher end linerlock models in Spydercos in house line anyway and so the Millie should remain being one of those few.

[James Y]

When the comp lock Military was discussed before, although some were opposed to this, IMO, calling it the PM 4 (4" blade) would simplify things.

Jim

[Bdubs808]

Discussion on this forum about a Compression Lock Military 2 is often like discussing rival sports teams; it gets serious and polarizing quite fast.

[mark greenman]

When the comp lock Military was discussed before, although some were opposed to this, IMO, calling it the PM 4 (4" blade) would simplify things.

Jim

I think the ideal solution is renaming the Para 3. That way the family of knives will make sense:

Military

Paramilitary

Insurgency (formerly Para 3)

[James Y]

Bdubs808,

Discussing it doesn't push any of my buttons at all. I like the Military's liner lock. IMO it is the best liner lock out there. It's the only liner lock lock knife design I carry anymore.

I'm also not opposed to a comp lock version, either. And since Sal has already mentioned that the liner lock version will remain in the lineup, I can't see why the issue could (or should) be polarizing. Once a comp lock version comes out, if someone doesn't like one version or the other, they don't have to buy it.

Jim

[James Y]

When the comp lock Military was discussed before, although some were opposed to this, IMO, calling it the PM 4 (4" blade) would simplify things.

Jim

I think the ideal solution is renaming the Para 3. That way the family of knives will make sense:

Military

Paramilitary

Insurgency (formerly Para 3)

Hi, Mark.

I've been wondering why the Para 3 isn't just abbreviated to PM 3. Sure the PM 2 and the Para 3 are different, but not THAT different. They aren't totally unrelated. Referring to it as the PM 3 would simplify things a little.

Jim

[mark greenman]

When the comp lock Military was discussed before, although some were opposed to this, IMO, calling it the PM 4 (4" blade) would simplify things.

Jim

I think the ideal solution is renaming the Para 3. That way the family of knives will make sense:

Military

Paramilitary

Insurgency (formerly Para 3)

Hi, Mark.

I've been wondering why the Para 3 isn't just abbreviated to PM 3. Sure the PM 2 and the Para 3 are different, but not THAT different. They aren't totally unrelated. Referring to it as the PM 3 would simplify things a little.

Jim

I think the issue with either Para 3 for PM3 (or calling the Military 2 the 'PM4') is how it relates to the Paramilitary 2/PM2.

Spyderco's are constantly improving (we're on our 4th gen of Endura/Delica and Police) so what happens when the next generation of PM2 is developed? Call it the PM2.1? The Para 3 makes it kinda weird to have a Paramilitary 3/PM3 now.

[James Y]

Well, you have a point there.

I would think that calling a further improved PM 2 just the PM 2 would be fine. In the same way that the Military, with its various CQI over the years, is still simply called the Military. I could be wrong, but I have doubts that any future changes to the PM 2 would be as different as the change from the PM1 to the PM2 was. Anyway, just my own thoughts, which have no power to affect any changes in the way Spyderco does things, anyway.

Sorry for straying off-topic, OP.

Jim

[Wartstein]

Discussion on this forum about a Compression Lock Military 2 is often like discussing rival sports teams; it gets serious and polarizing quite fast.

I was involved in those discussions and feel differently... as soon as it was clear that the "original" Millie would not get discontinued, everyone was happy, right?

The more intense discussions before that were understandable imho: The Mille in its current linerlock form really is an ikone loved by many, actually REPLACING it with a comp. lock version would be like switching the PM2 totally from comp. to linerlock or the Manix from CBBL to backlock...
Plus there generally aren't too many in house linerlock choices for those who appreciate that locktype..

[Evil D]

When the comp lock Military was discussed before, although some were opposed to this, IMO, calling it the PM 4 (4" blade) would simplify things.

Jim

I feel like this would be the "safest" solution. The Military loyal will be safe from losing what they love and we'd still get essentially the same result.

[Wartstein]

When the comp lock Military was discussed before, although some were opposed to this, IMO, calling it the PM 4 (4" blade) would simplify things.

Jim

I feel like this would be the "safest" solution. The Military loyal will be safe from losing what they love and we'd still get essentially the same result.

Wise words, David! :)

Yours truly, a "Military loyal"

[Granoo Fink]

If one doesn't want to call it Military, there's another solution. Given the fact that the Para 3 isn't named PM 3 because it was a further evolution of the PM 2, but a - more or less - independent design with a _3_"-blade, it should consequently be called Para 4.

[Evil D]

When the comp lock Military was discussed before, although some were opposed to this, IMO, calling it the PM 4 (4" blade) would simplify things.

Jim

I feel like this would be the "safest" solution. The Military loyal will be safe from losing what they love and we'd still get essentially the same result.

Wise words, David! :)

Yours truly, a "Military loyal"

At this point anyone who doesn't own a Military has nobody to blame but themselves unless they're new to the brand.


There hasn't been a sprint or exclusive in years, so if they decided right this minute to discontinue the Military what would really be lost? I think some people just want that warm and fuzzy feeling of knowing a knife is still in production even when they already own it and have absolutely no intention of buying that knife again. I understand the comfort of knowing you can easily replace a knife if you need to but beyond that we aren't gaining anything by having the current Military sit in a state of stagnation. I say either start firing off sprints and exclusives of every steel the Military hasn't been made in or bring out the next evolution of the design. I'm sure the answer there will be "why not both" and yeah that would be great but at this point it doesn't seem like that's going to happen.


And to be clear, I'm definitely one of the Military loyal. I may even be the biggest Military supporter of the last few years, but something needs to happen. I feel like the resistance of change is keeping us at a place where all we'll have from here on is the basic Military or if we're lucky a switch to S45V, when the Military 2 may actually blow us all away and be better in every way possible AND come with new and exciting steels.

I'm just saying, something has to happen because right now the Military barely gets any mention until someone asks about the Military 2 and then we all lose our minds about not changing it. Otherwise the small following of loyalists are sitting in limbo with a knife we aren't buying anymore because we already own, and that all but guarantees it will eventually get discontinued.

[Wartstein]

...

There hasn't been a sprint or exclusive in years, so if they decided right this minute to discontinue the Military what would really be lost? I think some people just want that warm and fuzzy feeling of knowing a knife is still in production even when they already own it and have absolutely no intention of buying that knife again. I understand the comfort of knowing you can easily replace a knife if you need to but beyond that we aren't gaining anything by having the current Military sit in a state of stagnation. I say either start firing off sprints and exclusives of every steel the Military hasn't been made in or bring out the next evolution of the design. I'm sure the answer there will be "why not both" and yeah that would be great but at this point it doesn't seem like that's going to happen.


And to be clear, I'm definitely one of the Military loyal. I may even be the biggest Military supporter of the last few years, but something needs to happen. I feel like the resistance of change is keeping us at a place where all we'll have from here on is the basic Military or if we're lucky a switch to S45V, when the Military 2 may actually blow us all away and be better in every way possible AND come with new and exciting steels.

I'm just saying, something has to happen because right now the Military barely gets any mention until someone asks about the Military 2 and then we all lose our minds about not changing it. Otherwise the small following of loyalists are sitting in limbo with a knife we aren't buying anymore because we already own, and that all but guarantees it will eventually get discontinued.

Well, then am for the sprint/exclusive variant... since just and only turning the Millie into yet another comp. lock knife would not be an "evolution" imho, but rather a step back (and I´d say this even if I did not prefer the linerlock over the comp.lock!!).
"Evolution of the design" is fine, but for me would mean something else or at least something more but this lock change - I can´t see much that would make a Millie better in way that it "would blow us all away" (though this might be possible of course!), but if so I´d say implement those new design features, but keep the linerlock, especially if it should remain being a "Millie"...

Also Sal did actually say indeed that BOTH a comp. and linerlock Millie would remain in the lineup, should the former ever happen..
But yes, calling it then "Para 4" or "PM2 XL" would make a lot more sense imho...

[Evil D]

Also Sal did actually say indeed that BOTH a comp. and linerlock Millie would remain in the lineup, should the former ever happen..
But yes, calling it then "Para 4" or "PM2 XL" would make a lot more sense imho...

Seems like I remember reading the same thing about the Paramilitary staying in the lineup too but the Para 2 absolutely crushed it in sales.


The more I think about it, I bet a four inch blade Para 4 is more likely to happen because of the well known and almost guaranteed sales name of "Para __", and in the end the Military will get discontinued altogether and there won't be a Military 2 at all. There has been talk of a Military 2 since I joined this forum and here we are 11 years later still debating over it. Maybe the last round of CQI was all the Military 2 that we'll ever see.

[bearfacedkiller]

I agree, call it the Para4 and watch it sell.