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First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 5:22 am
by Gtscotty
I'm a poor drafter, but after clumsily poking around Fusion 360 for a few nights a managed to complete my first pass at mule scales:
Everything is held together by button head hex cap screws (M4x12) and embedded nuts. I think I'm going to change the profile of the sweep curve I used to contour the handle to add more curve to the profile and taper more towards the spine. Also I need to thin the scales out a little in general so that they will engage the factory Kydex sheath without forcing it open as much as they do now, they are comfortable in my hand though, and don't feel too bulky.
I'd like to add texture to the handles and need to see if the emboss function could be made to work. There doesn't seem to be a simple way to apply surface textures in Fusion, and the methods I've seen on YouTube seem like they would be pretty complex given the sweep curves.
If any of you CAD pros have any tips, especially for texturing, I'd love to hear them!
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:49 am
by Xplorer
I'm very impressed! That looks like a really nice handle.
It looks to me like you've got the taper down to the bottom and the finger contouring looking great.
It's helpful to have a wider surface at the top of the spine, so when you modify the curve toward the top I would suggest only focusing on "softening" the point of the transition itself (to eliminate a potential hot spot) and still try to maintain a good top surface for applying downward pressure.
Great work!!
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:14 am
by RustyIron
Fit: very nice!
Embedded nuts: clever!
Complicated curves: hard to fathom!
Thanks for showing us the results.
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 12:37 pm
by AlexRus
Looks good!
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 2:27 pm
by defenestrate
This is a really nice design. I've been meaning to get a 3D printer, this is a good excuse to do so. I'm sure some variance would work better for some folks but this looks like it would make a lot of folks happy. I'd have to have it in hand but the apparant looks and ergos seems good and I like the embedded nuts.
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:27 pm
by RustyIron
The question that's burning in my mind is, "How did you get the scales to so accurately fit the blade? Do you have one of those fancy laser scanners that automatically figures out shapes? To me, figuring out how to match that curve so closely would be VERY difficult.
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:17 am
by JRinFL
Nice job, especially considering it is your first attempt. Would you be willing to share the 3D file once you have it where you are happy with it?
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:24 am
by Gtscotty
Xplorer wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 10:49 am
I'm very impressed! That looks like a really nice handle.
It looks to me like you've got the taper down to the bottom and the finger contouring looking great.
It's helpful to have a wider surface at the top of the spine, so when you modify the curve toward the top I would suggest only focusing on "softening" the point of the transition itself (to eliminate a potential hot spot) and still try to maintain a good top surface for applying downward pressure.
Great work!!
Thanks, there actually is some taper to the spine as well, just not as much as to the belly, and honestly that shot doesn't show it well because since I swept the cutting curve down the length of the knife, the butt end didn't get tapered like the spine and belly sides. I am going to try to make the scales a little thinner and taper the spine more, but there will probably be some trial and error to see how much I can move while still keeping enough material on the top and bottom of the nuts. It's comfortable for me to hold and use now, but I'd like it to fit the factory Boltaron sheath and it's a bit thick for that right now.
defenestrate wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 2:27 pm
This is a really nice design. I've been meaning to get a 3D printer, this is a good excuse to do so. I'm sure some variance would work better for some folks but this looks like it would make a lot of folks happy. I'd have to have it in hand but the apparant looks and ergos seems good and I like the embedded nuts.
Definitely get one, its quite the rabbit hole to go down. I think Ender 3s are a little under $200, Ender 3 Pros a little over. PrusaSlicer is free and has Ender machine profiles, a personal use Fusion 360 license is also free. I'll put the final scale design up on Thingiverse, I was just going to get it to fit the Boltaron sheath better first. If someone wants to try this version I can post it up as well, and then add the trimmed version later. This version is snug in a factory leather sheath that was stretched for the factory scales, but I'm sure will fit well after it sits in there a while.
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:39 am
by Gtscotty
RustyIron wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 11:27 pm
The question that's burning in my mind is, "How did you get the scales to so accurately fit the blade? Do you have one of those fancy laser scanners that automatically figures out shapes? To me, figuring out how to match that curve so closely would be VERY difficult.
There is a feature in Fusion 360 called canvas where you can take a picture of an object, upload it in Fusion 360 as a background and scale it off of a known dimension. I think I read this idea on another scale thread here, or somewhere, but I set my calipers next to the Mule in the picture with the jaws set to exactly 2 inches, so scaling once in was easy.
Once the canvas is it, I used a bunch of splines to sketch the perimeter of the handle on the picture, and the hole function to drop matching holes everywhere there was one on the tang in case I wanted to use them later, they'll be located. After that I printed very thin handle sections so I could iterate quickly and pushed and pulled the edges and circles between each iteration until everything lined up laid over my mule.
This was the first time I've had to match a smooth artsy curve with a bunch of other existing holes, so it was different than most of my other doodles in the past.
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 3:32 pm
by Josh Crutchley
Looks great! I'm still using clear sla resin scales on my mule.
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:22 am
by defenestrate
Gtscotty wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 8:24 am
Definitely get one, its quite the rabbit hole to go down. I think Ender 3s are a little under $200, Ender 3 Pros a little over. PrusaSlicer is free and has Ender machine profiles, a personal use Fusion 360 license is also free. I'll put the final scale design up on Thingiverse, I was just going to get it to fit the Boltaron sheath better first. If someone wants to try this version I can post it up as well, and then add the trimmed version later. This version is snug in a factory leather sheath that was stretched for the factory scales, but I'm sure will fit well after it sits in there a while.
Thanks for the input. Honestly, that's the main thing that's been keeping me from buying. I want to start with something fairly easy to work with and versatile as well as affordable. I have yet to use a 3D printer (which means I'm years behind where I should be as a committed geek) and I've done some research but honestly there is so much info out there that it is exhausting trying to sift through it even though I am usually okay at it.
Seems to me like the ender 3 is widely recommended for most 3D printing purposes that aren't exotic and extremely expensive. For example, I'd love to 3D print metals but the cheapest models for that run 60K (the HP metal jet is something like 400K I think and I'm not even sure I could use most of those at home). But a widely adopted model that works with at least a few different materials and has lots of people figuring out mods and hacks while still being affordable is pefect for me. I'll look over the differences between the 3, 3 pro and 3X and just pick one. I have no problem paying that for a knife and it should be useful enough to hold me over until (and if indeed I use it enough) I want to buy something more substantial. I've heard loads of praise for these.
No worries about getting the current version - if I get pretty good with mine while you are working out the design (or maybe after it gets to where you are pretty happy with it), I can always try to help or design an alternative. Good stuff.
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 9:29 am
by Bolster
Do like. Good job man. I'll bet the grippiness (the patterning on the surface) is nearly ideal.
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 11:53 am
by Gtscotty
defenestrate wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 6:22 am
Gtscotty wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 8:24 am
Definitely get one, its quite the rabbit hole to go down. I think Ender 3s are a little under $200, Ender 3 Pros a little over. PrusaSlicer is free and has Ender machine profiles, a personal use Fusion 360 license is also free. I'll put the final scale design up on Thingiverse, I was just going to get it to fit the Boltaron sheath better first. If someone wants to try this version I can post it up as well, and then add the trimmed version later. This version is snug in a factory leather sheath that was stretched for the factory scales, but I'm sure will fit well after it sits in there a while.
Thanks for the input. Honestly, that's the main thing that's been keeping me from buying. I want to start with something fairly easy to work with and versatile as well as affordable. I have yet to use a 3D printer (which means I'm years behind where I should be as a committed geek) and I've done some research but honestly there is so much info out there that it is exhausting trying to sift through it even though I am usually okay at it.
Seems to me like the ender 3 is widely recommended for most 3D printing purposes that aren't exotic and extremely expensive. For example, I'd love to 3D print metals but the cheapest models for that run 60K (the HP metal jet is something like 400K I think and I'm not even sure I could use most of those at home). But a widely adopted model that works with at least a few different materials and has lots of people figuring out mods and hacks while still being affordable is pefect for me. I'll look over the differences between the 3, 3 pro and 3X and just pick one. I have no problem paying that for a knife and it should be useful enough to hold me over until (and if indeed I use it enough) I want to buy something more substantial. I've heard loads of praise for these.
No worries about getting the current version - if I get pretty good with mine while you are working out the design (or maybe after it gets to where you are pretty happy with it), I can always try to help or design an alternative. Good stuff.
Yep, there's plenty of Analysis Paralysis inducing variety and options in 3d printing. I know some folks with Enders, and while they may require a little tweaking, they seem to be good machines. I have small kids and a rather demanding job now, so I decided it was worth it to me to pay more and spend more time printing as opposed to tweaking, so I picked up a Prusa i3 MK3s kit for $800 shipped. About 10 hours to slowly build it (and get well acquainted with how it works), and it's been problem free for a few years. They now make a Prusa Mini that is well regarded and is ~$350, should still have plenty of plate room to build something like these scales.
BTW, a few of the 3d YouTube channels that I think are informative and helpful (and have discussion of different printers) are:
CNC Kitchen
Thomas Sanladerer
Maker's Muse
Chris Riley
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 12:01 pm
by Gtscotty
Bolster wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:29 am
Do like. Good job man. I'll bet the grippiness (the patterning on the surface) is nearly ideal.
All they really have in the way of texture right now are the layer lines, which are probably grippy enough for most uses, but i'd like to put some dedicated texture on there, I haven't seen a simple way in Fusion, so I may give Blender a try to see if textures can be simply done there.
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:23 pm
by defenestrate
Gtscotty wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:53 am
Yep, there's plenty of Analysis Paralysis inducing variety and options in 3d printing. I know some folks with Enders, and while they may require a little tweaking, they seem to be good machines. I have small kids and a rather demanding job now, so I decided it was worth it to me to pay more and spend more time printing as opposed to tweaking, so I picked up a Prusa i3 MK3s kit for $800 shipped. About 10 hours to slowly build it (and get well acquainted with how it works), and it's been problem free for a few years. They now make a Prusa Mini that is well regarded and is ~$350, should still have plenty of plate room to build something like these scales.
BTW, a few of the 3d YouTube channels that I think are informative and helpful (and have discussion of different printers) are:
CNC Kitchen
Thomas Sanladerer
Maker's Muse
Chris Riley
Right on. I've been interested for years and it's an easy call to get one and stick it in my home office near my regular printer. I could afford something fancier but I'd be better off learning the basics and taking an inexpensive but community-supported machine and learning to set it up and modify it - if I get into it enough to learn all of that and start making things, a fancier printer would make more sense. I don't always want to take the time to get to know new things but I've wanted to do this for a long time and a couple hundred bucks to start is very affordable to me right now.
I've seen a couple of those youtube channels. Will look into them. Thanks.
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 6:44 pm
by Sharp Guy
Very nice! I've thought about designing some scales but I don't really see it as an upgrade to what I already have. Mule scales makes sense though
I have an Ender 3 (with some upgrades) running right next to me at the moment. I have a CR-10S Pro behind me and another one in the garage. I actually started with a Monoprice Mini Delta (now up in the attic). I ran that for a few months and then bought a CR-10S Pro. I got the Ender on sale for a bargain and it's been a workhorse for me. I've designed some parts that I sell and the Ender's running almost every day to keep my inventory stocked.
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 7:05 pm
by Sharp Guy
Gtscotty wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 12:01 pm
Bolster wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:29 am
Do like. Good job man. I'll bet the grippiness (the patterning on the surface) is nearly ideal.
All they really have in the way of texture right now are the layer lines, which are probably grippy enough for most uses, but i'd like to put some dedicated texture on there, I haven't seen a simple way in Fusion, so I may give Blender a try to see if textures can be simply done there.
Just throwing this out there....in Fusion 360 you should be able to select the surface (or create a new plane along that surface), create a new sketch on that surface (or plane), draw your texture pattern, and then do a negative extrusion. Similar to how you'd create numbers or letters in the surface of an object like I did below.
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 5:40 am
by Gtscotty
Sharp Guy wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 7:05 pm
Gtscotty wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 12:01 pm
Bolster wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:29 am
Do like. Good job man. I'll bet the grippiness (the patterning on the surface) is nearly ideal.
All they really have in the way of texture right now are the layer lines, which are probably grippy enough for most uses, but i'd like to put some dedicated texture on there, I haven't seen a simple way in Fusion, so I may give Blender a try to see if textures can be simply done there.
Just throwing this out there....in Fusion 360 you should be able to select the surface (or create a new plane along that surface), create a new sketch on that surface (or plane), draw your texture pattern, and then do a negative extrusion. Similar to how you'd create numbers or letters in the surface of an object like I did below.
Those T1X single load sleds are neat, are folks using those for NRL22 type competition?
I've done letters and designs on flat surfaces before, what I'm not sure about is how to do it on surface made up of compound curves, it doesn't want to select the same way. Have you tried that emboss function on a complex curved surface?
It wound up being a chore to get the fillet command to calculate around the top perimeter of the curved handle, I kept getting errors most of the ways I tried.
I've been out of town most of the last week, but I'm going to try to work on thinning the grips a little tonight if I have time. The current version is still tight on my Mule, but it's printed in PLA, which is kind of bad about low temperature creep, so I expect they will loosen over time. I'll eventually print my final versions in PETG, which is much better about creep and also more resistant to environmental exposure.
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Mon May 31, 2021 9:36 pm
by Gtscotty
Re: First crack at 3d printed Mule Scales
Posted: Mon May 31, 2021 11:49 pm
by Fireman
It looks amazing! Great job! What do they cost to produce? All it needs is a lanyard hole for the deep cary leather sheath :D
