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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:26 am
by Josh1973
Hello KKnives_Switzerland. As much as I love to watch Pete do testing. And respect his testing and the man himself. I am a bit confused over some of his results. Compared to my lighter duty real life use.
Point in case is the Sandrin cemented Tungsten carbide knife he tested. I bought a Sandrin Torino due to watching his video a year ago. Doing over 1,500 cuts on Manilla rope with the TCK model. Remind you I never used the knife prior to this except to do a paper cut test in which it performed marvelously.
Well the kicker for me is that I cut about 9 or 10 soft wood branches and the razor sharpness and work sharpness both both left completely and snagged on a paper cutting test. And the working edge was not that impressive. I sent it to the Sandrin represenative factory to have it sharpened and that alone ran over $20.
Anyways I noticed they re sharpened the blade to a different angle from original factory. I used the Torino again to cut a few small softwood branches. Same end result. And disappointed.
I ended up putting the knife in the dresser drawer and retiring it after I noticed the knife lost it's sharpness yet again from light use. And miserably failed the paper cutting test despite seeing no damage or flat spots to the blade from inspecting it with a 5x magnifying glass.
I cannot explain how disappointed I was. When I got D2, S35V, and CPM154 that did a day of actual hard work and still could slice paper and shave some hair from my arm without touching up on a honing steel.
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:45 am
by KKnives_Switzerland
Josh1973 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:26 am
Hello KKnives_Switzerland. As much as I love to watch Pete do testing. And respect his testing and the man himself. I am a bit confused over some of his results. Compared to my lighter duty real life use.
Point in case is the Sandrin cemented Tungsten carbide knife he tested. I bought a Sandrin Torino due to watching his video a year ago. Doing over 1,500 cuts on Manilla rope with the TCK model. Remind you I never used the knife prior to this except to do a paper cut test in which it performed marvelously.
Well the kicker for me is that I cut about 9 or 10 soft wood branches and the razor sharpness and work sharpness both both left completely and snagged on a paper cutting test. And the working edge was not that impressive. I sent it to the Sandrin represenative factory to have it sharpened and that alone ran over $20.
Anyways I noticed they re sharpened the blade to a different angle from original factory. I used the Torino again to cut a few small softwood branches. Same end result. And disappointed.
I ended up putting the knife in the dresser drawer and retiring it after I noticed the knife lost it's sharpness yet again from light use. And miserably failed the paper cutting test despite seeing no damage or flat spots to the blade from inspecting it with a 5x magnifying glass.
I cannot explain how disappointed I was. When I got D2, S35V, and CPM154 that did a day of actual hard work and still could slice paper and shave some hair from my arm without touching up on a honing steel.
The problem with cemented carbide is lateral force I found. I did some testing with various carbide grades on "my road to elastic ceramic" and actually had similar, albeit not quite as bad results like yours. The apex seems to "flake" off on a microscopic level. Steel - and now the elastic ceramic - can take lateral force much better than carbide. That's why I show brass carving right away in my "abuse testing" video about the elastic ceramic.
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:50 am
by Josh1973
KKnives_Switzerland wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:45 am
Josh1973 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:26 am
Hello KKnives_Switzerland. As much as I love to watch Pete do testing. And respect his testing and the man himself. I am a bit confused over some of his results. Compared to my lighter duty real life use.
Point in case is the Sandrin cemented Tungsten carbide knife he tested. I bought a Sandrin Torino due to watching his video a year ago. Doing over 1,500 cuts on Manilla rope with the TCK model. Remind you I never used the knife prior to this except to do a paper cut test in which it performed marvelously.
Well the kicker for me is that I cut about 9 or 10 soft wood branches and the razor sharpness and work sharpness both both left completely and snagged on a paper cutting test. And the working edge was not that impressive. I sent it to the Sandrin represenative factory to have it sharpened and that alone ran over $20.
Anyways I noticed they re sharpened the blade to a different angle from original factory. I used the Torino again to cut a few small softwood branches. Same end result. And disappointed.
I ended up putting the knife in the dresser drawer and retiring it after I noticed the knife lost it's sharpness yet again from light use. And miserably failed the paper cutting test despite seeing no damage or flat spots to the blade from inspecting it with a 5x magnifying glass.
I cannot explain how disappointed I was. When I got D2, S35V, and CPM154 that did a day of actual hard work and still could slice paper and shave some hair from my arm without touching up on a honing steel.
The problem with cemented carbide is lateral force I found. I did some testing with various carbide grades on "my road to elastic ceramic" and actually had similar, albeit not quite as bad results like yours. The apex seems to "flake" off on a microscopic level. Steel - and now the elastic ceramic - can take lateral force much better than carbide. That's why I show brass carving right away in my "abuse testing" video about the elastic ceramic.
Bud. Thanks for replying and explaining lateral force. I never experienced anything like this in my life. I can't wait to see your folding knives come out. I look forward to purchasing one. And I hope you do a slipjoint version down the road.
Wishing you and your family a great week ahead.
Sincerely. Josh1973
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:00 am
by KKnives_Switzerland
Josh1973 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:50 am
KKnives_Switzerland wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:45 am
Josh1973 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:26 am
Hello KKnives_Switzerland. As much as I love to watch Pete do testing. And respect his testing and the man himself. I am a bit confused over some of his results. Compared to my lighter duty real life use.
Point in case is the Sandrin cemented Tungsten carbide knife he tested. I bought a Sandrin Torino due to watching his video a year ago. Doing over 1,500 cuts on Manilla rope with the TCK model. Remind you I never used the knife prior to this except to do a paper cut test in which it performed marvelously.
Well the kicker for me is that I cut about 9 or 10 soft wood branches and the razor sharpness and work sharpness both both left completely and snagged on a paper cutting test. And the working edge was not that impressive. I sent it to the Sandrin represenative factory to have it sharpened and that alone ran over $20.
Anyways I noticed they re sharpened the blade to a different angle from original factory. I used the Torino again to cut a few small softwood branches. Same end result. And disappointed.
I ended up putting the knife in the dresser drawer and retiring it after I noticed the knife lost it's sharpness yet again from light use. And miserably failed the paper cutting test despite seeing no damage or flat spots to the blade from inspecting it with a 5x magnifying glass.
I cannot explain how disappointed I was. When I got D2, S35V, and CPM154 that did a day of actual hard work and still could slice paper and shave some hair from my arm without touching up on a honing steel.
The problem with cemented carbide is lateral force I found. I did some testing with various carbide grades on "my road to elastic ceramic" and actually had similar, albeit not quite as bad results like yours. The apex seems to "flake" off on a microscopic level. Steel - and now the elastic ceramic - can take lateral force much better than carbide. That's why I show brass carving right away in my "abuse testing" video about the elastic ceramic.
Bud. Thanks for replying and explaining lateral force. I never experienced anything like this in my life. I can't wait to see your folding knives come out. I look forward to purchasing one. And I hope you do a slipjoint version down the road.
Wishing you and your family a great week ahead.
Sincerely. Josh1973
Thanks same to you! :)
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:21 am
by Bolster
Could elastic ceramic show up on router bits and saw blades eventually?
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:13 pm
by KKnives_Switzerland
Bolster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:21 am
Could elastic ceramic show up on router bits and saw blades eventually?
Yes.
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:04 pm
by kodai78
Is a dendritic Cobalt Mule possible? I know it’s not steel. It’s better!
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:00 pm
by Rp5
Bolster wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:31 pm
Does anyone know if Larrin has this graphic (one of the most important, IMO) with labels on all the datapoints? There is sort of a tightly clustered "stainless steel winner's circle" for a well-balanced steel around SPY27 and XHP but I'd like to know what the other near datapoints are. Possibly S35VN, S45VN? Dunno.
I'm sure that Larrin does, but he hasn't posted it that I've seen. I've been trying to compile a list of his data points though, and my running list is pictured below. The difficult part, as I'm sure you know, is that Toughness and Edge Retention are inversely related to hardness, so testing steels at different hardness can produce different results. Hard to plot data points on a sliding scale. These are my best approximations. I think Larrin appreciates toughness because as he always points out, edge geometry matters more than composition, but when you have higher toughness in your composition, you can heat treat harder and make thinner blade stock with less probability of chipping or breaking than a lower-toughness steel.
As to the thread - as others have said, my top three lookouts are MagnaCut, Vanax, and Non-Steel (Elastic Ceramic/Tungsten Carb/Dendritic Cobalt.)
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:14 pm
by Josh Crutchley
I would really like to see something like Vancron, Vanax, or something similar with carbonitrides might be interesting.
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:26 am
by AlexRus
Joshcrutchley1 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:14 pm
I would really like to see something like Vancron, Vanax, or something similar with carbonitrides might be interesting.
Some stainless monsters? :)
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:55 pm
by DansGearAddiction
Magnacut, S390, M398 or REX121 would all be sweet.
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:52 pm
by Fireman
I’m stuffing the ballot box…
S7!
3V!
52100!
Dendritic cobalt would be rad. I have a knife already in it by Boye but I would buy a mule version. Cast mule would be a first but not the first cast knife for Spyderco.
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:56 pm
by KnifeKnuts
Manganese wear plate Mule Team blade.
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:46 pm
by AlexRus
Fireman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:52 pm
I’m stuffing the ballot box…
S7!
3V!
52100!
Dendritic cobalt would be rad. I have a knife already in it by Boye but I would buy a mule version. Cast mule would be a first but not the first cast knife for Spyderco.
52100 was the first Mule to be released back in 2007 :)
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:16 am
by Fireman
AlexRus wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:46 pm
Fireman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:52 pm
I’m stuffing the ballot box…
S7!
3V!
52100!
Dendritic cobalt would be rad. I have a knife already in it by Boye but I would buy a mule version. Cast mule would be a first but not the first cast knife for Spyderco.
52100 was the first Mule to be released back in 2007 :)
Thanks. I was uncertain of that one but did not look at the list before posting. Thanks for the correction.
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:22 am
by AlexRus
Fireman wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:16 am
AlexRus wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:46 pm
Fireman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:52 pm
I’m stuffing the ballot box…
S7!
3V!
52100!
Dendritic cobalt would be rad. I have a knife already in it by Boye but I would buy a mule version. Cast mule would be a first but not the first cast knife for Spyderco.
52100 was the first Mule to be released back in 2007 :)
Thanks. I was uncertain of that one but did not look at the list before posting. Thanks for the correction.
Sometimes you may still see one of them 52100 for sale :)
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:40 pm
by cody6268
I was just looking at a Crucible spec sheet for CPM-20CV which mentioned a CPM-9V, said to be extremely tough and wear-resistant, and I wonder if it would be actually usable as a blade steel?
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:37 pm
by Fireman
AlexRus wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:22 am
Fireman wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:16 am
AlexRus wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:46 pm
Fireman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:52 pm
I’m stuffing the ballot box…
S7!
3V!
52100!
Dendritic cobalt would be rad. I have a knife already in it by Boye but I would buy a mule version. Cast mule would be a first but not the first cast knife for Spyderco.
52100 was the first Mule to be released back in 2007 :)
Thanks. I was uncertain of that one but did not look at the list before posting. Thanks for the correction.
Sometimes you may still see one of them 52100 for sale :)
I think my brain might have meant 5160. All the super tough steels. A millie in super tough steels appeals to me and especially one in LC200N
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:31 am
by AlexRus
I'm for MagnaCut and M398
Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife
Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:35 pm
by Tucson Tom
Not that I expect this to happen, but I sure would like to get a mule in 52100 -- but this would be a replay of a mule from before my time. I just wish I had a mule sized fixed blade in 52100, that would make me happy.
But among the choices in the short poll, I would pick the Vanax.