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Mule Team knives steel hardness testing results
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 8:02 am
by AlexRus
Hi y'all!
I've got a question. Spyderco Mule Team knives are sample knives used for different steel performance testing in the same blade geometry, and as we all know that even the same steels at different hardness show a bit different properties in performance. Anyone tested the hardness of steel on their Mules? Please share your date if you did. If we get enough date we could even make a listing of Mule Team knives steels hardness.
Thank you all in advance.
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 8:32 am
by TomAiello
I think that we should create a thread with Mule hardness tests, and it should get a sticky in this forum. :)
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 9:32 am
by Bolster
TomAiello wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 8:32 am
I think that we should create a thread with Mule hardness tests, and it should get a sticky in this forum. :)
Ditto. Wish I could contribute; don't have a hardness tester.
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 9:38 am
by Pokey
Here's an extensive list in a post that member elmeringalo has tested:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=88602&p=1495061&hi ... C#p1495005
Re: Z-Max mule!
post by elmeringalo » Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:39 pm
I’ve measured all my Mules and this is the results:
MT02P CPM-M4 62HRC
MT03P CPM-S90V 60HRC
MT04P ZDP-189* 65HRC
MT05P 9Cr18Mo* 59HRC
MT06P CPM-S35VN 58HRC
MT07P DPS15/VG10 34HRC
MT08P Aogami Super Blue 63,5HRC
MT09P Cobalt Special SUS420J2* 56HRC
MT10P CTS-BD1* 57,5HRC
MT11P M390 60HRC
MT12P CruWear * 59,5HRC
MT12P CruWear (2)* 62HRC
MT13P Elmax 60HRC
MT15P CTS-B75P 63HRC
MT16P CTS-XHP* 60HRC
MT17P K390 64HRC
MT18P CPM-S110V 69HRC
MT19P PSF27* 61HRC
MT20P CTS-B70P* 60,5HRC
MT20P CTS-B70P(2)* 61HRC
MT21P CPM4V* 64HRC
MT21P CPM4V(2) 65HRC
MT22P RWL34* 59HRC
MT22P RWL34(2) 61HRC
MT23P CPM 20 CV 60HRC
MT23P CPM 20 CV(2) 61HRC
MT24P Maxamet 69HRC
MT25P L200N* 57HRC
MT25P L200N(2) 58HRC
MT26P PMA11* 63HRC
MT26P PMA11(2) 64HRC
MT27P Micro-Melt PD1 63,5 HRC
MT27P Micro-Melt PD1(2) 63HRC
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 9:45 am
by AlexRus
TomAiello wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 8:32 am
I think that we should create a thread with Mule hardness tests, and it should get a sticky in this forum. :)
Good idea! Renamed the thread to Mule Team knives steel hardness testing :)
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 9:48 am
by AlexRus
Pokey wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 9:38 am
Here's an extensive list in a post that member elmeringalo has tested:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=88602&p=1495061&hi ... C#p1495005
Re: Z-Max mule!
post by elmeringalo » Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:39 pm
I’ve measured all my Mules and this is the results:
MT02P CPM-M4 62HRC
MT03P CPM-S90V 60HRC
MT04P ZDP-189* 65HRC
MT05P 9Cr18Mo* 59HRC
MT06P CPM-S35VN 58HRC
MT07P DPS15/VG10 34HRC
MT08P Aogami Super Blue 63,5HRC
MT09P Cobalt Special SUS420J2* 56HRC
MT10P CTS-BD1* 57,5HRC
MT11P M390 60HRC
MT12P CruWear * 59,5HRC
MT12P CruWear (2)* 62HRC
MT13P Elmax 60HRC
MT15P CTS-B75P 63HRC
MT16P CTS-XHP* 60HRC
MT17P K390 64HRC
MT18P CPM-S110V 69HRC
MT19P PSF27* 61HRC
MT20P CTS-B70P* 60,5HRC
MT20P CTS-B70P(2)* 61HRC
MT21P CPM4V* 64HRC
MT21P CPM4V(2) 65HRC
MT22P RWL34* 59HRC
MT22P RWL34(2) 61HRC
MT23P CPM 20 CV 60HRC
MT23P CPM 20 CV(2) 61HRC
MT24P Maxamet 69HRC
MT25P L200N* 57HRC
MT25P L200N(2) 58HRC
MT26P PMA11* 63HRC
MT26P PMA11(2) 64HRC
MT27P Micro-Melt PD1 63,5 HRC
MT27P Micro-Melt PD1(2) 63HRC
Wow! Awesome! Thank you Pokey!
P.S. But CPM-S110V 69HRC? Might be a mistake? Never seen, read or heard of S110V is capable of 69HRC. It's not Maxamet or REX121. CPM S110V would just fall apart from cutting an apple at 69HRC. IMHO.
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 9:56 am
by TomAiello
The best way to check that is to test another mule and see what happens. I have an s110v mule that we could test, but no ability to test it.
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:12 am
by AlexRus
TomAiello wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 9:56 am
The best way to check that is to test another mule and see what happens. I have an s110v mule that we could test, but no ability to test it.
Agreed. But I'm still sure that 66-67HRC is the maximum S110V could be heat treated. And it would become EXTREMELY brittle at that 66-67HRC, not usable at all as a knife. IMHO again :)
TomAiello wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 9:56 am
I have an s110v mule that we could test, but no ability to test it.
Unfortunately I got no access to hardness testing machines either
P. S. I found Mule Team on Spydiewiki. It shows Spyderco Mule S110V at 60/61 HRC
http://www.spydiewiki.com/index.php?title=MT_Mule_Team
But it has no data for Mule SPY27 and Mule S45VN yet
So we need SPY27 and S45VN Mules to be hardness tested :)
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:24 am
by TomAiello
It could easily be a typo when he typed up his list to upload. Or a weird test result. Or maybe Spyderco really does have amazing s110v heat treat. My experience with Spyderco's s110v is that it holds an edge for a _long_ time but is chippy in hard use (I've chipped my s110v Manix and never chipped my Maxamet Manix, which does not seem to accord with the general experience of others on this forum or the internet generally).
Unfortunately, I don't have a Maxamet mule to test, but I have heard (also third hand on the internet) that the Maxamet mule was run harder than the production blades. I'm skeptical of that though, because my EDC Maxamet Manix holds it's working edge more or less forever.
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:27 am
by AlexRus
TomAiello wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 10:24 am
It could easily be a typo when he typed up his list to upload. Or a weird test result. Or maybe Spyderco really does have amazing s110v heat treat. My experience with Spyderco's s110v is that it holds an edge for a _long_ time but is chippy in hard use (I've chipped my s110v Manix and never chipped my Maxamet Manix, which does not seem to accord with the general experience of others on this forum or the internet generally).
Unfortunately, I don't have a Maxamet mule to test, but I have heard (also third hand on the internet) that the Maxamet mule was run harder than the production blades. I'm skeptical of that though, because my EDC Maxamet Manix holds it's working edge more or less forever.
Maxamet and REX121 are the beasts :cool:
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 11:52 am
by David R
There are a few collections of hardness tests out there. One problem seems to be that most people doing the tests don't want to manage the data. Another issue is that it's hard to know when tests are done correctly or done at all. How can we know people aren't fabricating results?
I've had ~20 mules tested and can post the results. However, I'd prefer to add them to a shared spreadsheet where each test needs to have a the corresponding test info shared (who tested, when, links to any video or other evidence of the test).
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 12:10 pm
by TomAiello
Does anyone know how to build a shared spreadsheet that people can add data to?
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 12:14 pm
by AlexRus
TomAiello wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 12:10 pm
Does anyone know how to build a shared spreadsheet that people can add data to?
There is one on Spydiewiki, but we can't add to it or edit it
http://www.spydiewiki.com/index.php?title=MT_Mule_Team
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 12:17 pm
by AlexRus
David R wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 11:52 am
There are a few collections of hardness tests out there. One problem seems to be that most people doing the tests don't want to manage the data. Another issue is that it's hard to know when tests are done correctly or done at all. How can we know people aren't fabricating data.
I've had ~20 mules tested and can post the results. However, I'd prefer to add them to a shared spreadsheet where each test needs to have a the corresponding test info shared (who tested, when, links to any video or other evidence of the test).
Yeah, data authentication is a problem sometimes
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 5:57 pm
by Bolster
MT07P DPS15/VG10 34HRC ?
So...that's the damascus mule, I think....would the 34 pertain to the outer damascus part? Not the VG10 center certainly.
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 6:39 pm
by yablanowitz
Yeah, that sounds like the tester hit a soft layer.
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 12:05 am
by AlexRus
Bolster wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 5:57 pm
MT07P DPS15/VG10 34HRC ?
So...that's the damascus mule, I think....would the 34 pertain to the outer damascus part? Not the VG10 center certainly.
My guess is that MT07P DPS15/VG10 being 34HRC is rather a mistake or a typo, along with MT18P CPM-S110V being 69HRC
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 11:04 am
by Gtscotty
Has anyone posted HRC results for the new MT31 in S45VN yet?
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 11:59 am
by AlexRus
Gtscotty wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 11:04 am
Has anyone posted HRC results for the new MT31 in S45VN yet?
I haven't seen it yet. Maybe anyone else?
Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing results
Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 12:55 am
by AlexRus
A little update guys:
Spyderco Mule MT28 SPY27 - 61.5±0.5 HRC
According to gx9