Spyderco Military Observations

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
vivi
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Spyderco Military Observations

#1

Post by vivi »

Me and the Military model have a long history together. Let me tell you our story:

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It was a cold winter in 2007 when I first heard about Spyderco. I was browsing guns at Kame's Sporting Goods and saw some high end knives I had never heard of - Spyderco and Benchmade.

I went home and researched them. I found out Spyderco came up with the opening hole, so I decided to try Spyderco instead of Benchmade, because they were the original in my mind.

I bought a saber ground PE Delica because it was the most recommended model.I never did like that knife because it was small for my grip and cut poorly compared to the Swiss Army Knives I EDC'd around then.

I sold it, then asked around for suggestions closer in size to a Buck 110.

I purchased a single liner S60V PE Military based on advice, and I fell in love with it right away.

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Prior to carrying Spyderco, my favorite single blade folder was the Buck 110. Right away I was shocked at the size to weight ratio of the Military.

The next thing that impressed me were the ergonomics. Again, the 110 was my gold standard here, and amazingly the Military beat it.

The Military quickly became my go to pocket knife, replacing the 110, Opinels and Victorinox folders I had been carrying. I used it at work, in the woods and at home.

It's the knife that really sold me on Spyderco, and led me to this forum.

Over the years I've used a lot of different versions of the knife.

I bought a CF/BG42 sprint and had a tip up clip installed.

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I bought a digital camo S30V Millie, CF/S90V sprint, and a CPMD2 seconds

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I ended up swapping the CPMD2 blade into the camo handles, and this was my most frequently carried knife for 5 or 6 years.

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This Military was special to me, being a unique combination of parts I never saw anyone else with.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Et9a5tKC60s

That's a review / cutting demo I filmed before my move. The first half is talking about the Millie, what I like and what I don't, while the latter half is cutting.

No matter how big my knife collection got, the Military was always one of the most frequently carried. Notice its right in the center in this pic:

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In 2014 I had that D2 & camo Military stolen, and I washed my hands of the model. I knew I wouldn't be able to put together one that was exactly the same.

About a year later I got the itch for another, so I picked up a blacked out Military about 400 days after losing the D2 one:

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However, right after I bought it, I had a close friend ask me for a knife. I let him go through my collection, telling him about the different models, and he chose that Military. I had plenty of other knives so I sold it to him.

Replaced it with a 204p sprint.

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(not my picture)

This one I did carry a lot. I didn't baby it at all. Carried it to work, out camping, anywhere and anything unless it was a Pacific Salt kind of day. I fell back in love with the design.

Then a few months after buying this Millie, I had my Para 2 pop open in my pocket twice and I swore off detent based locks. I traded the 204p Military for a Police 4 K390 and didn't look back.

Three years later, this past fall I started looking at Military folders again, missing it. The rex45 sprint looked awesome, but I was too late.

Thankfully there were some in the seconds sale. I decided to order another DLC S30V, and this time I was going to keep it and use it.

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I've been pleased to have the Military enter my collection again, about 14 years after buying the S60V version and falling in love with Spydercos.

After ordering it I wondered how I'd feel about the Military all these years later, in 2021?

Well, after a lot of pocket time the past month, I can say It's still one of my favorites of all time.

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(My 4 favorite single blade folding pocket knives)

I've tried every Spyderco folder I've wanted to audition for EDC besides the Catcherman. Fom the LC200N Pacific Salt, the C95 Manix, Dodo, ATR, Yojimbo 1&2, Calypso/3.5/3/jr/ukpk, Phoenix, Police 1-4, CF/ZDP Stretch, Dyad and more. I've tried different variants of models I like, whether both PE and SE Pacifics, PE and CE C95'S, and the same design in different steels (e.g. Police 4 in VG10 and K390).

This doesn't even scratch the surface of what I've tried from other companies, whether Cold Steel Voyagers, Kershaw Leeks, Benchmade Griptilians or Buck 110's.

Out of the over hundreds of folding knife designs I've tried in my life, the Military easily makes me top 5.

Now, despite my re-kindled love for this model exactly as it is, I've been spending time thinking about a potential Military 2.

When I first bought a Para 2 from Kames back around 2012, my initial reaction was I wanted that same knife scaled up to be the next generation of the Military.

Having spent time with both a Military and Para 2 the past month, I still think that would be a good idea. The specific changes I liked from the Para 1 to the 2 that I'd like to see carry over to the Military 2 are the four way clip, the different clip design, and the enlarged index finger choil.

I'd also like to see the compression lock on the Military.

Regarding the four way clip, my main issue with tip down carry isn't speed of access, but the way my hand rubs against the knife when I reach into my pocket.

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With a Police clipped tip up, the smooth back and tapered butt end make it easy to access my pocket. With the Military clipped tip down, my hand rubs against the spine jimping and the edges around the opening hole. It doesn't hurt, but it doesn't feel as nice as the Police.

That being said, the current clip works great when carrying IWB or clipped to a side of the leg pocket. I just don't like it clipped to my right front pocket.

Having used both tip up and tip down Military folders, for me there is no downside to tip up carry with the model, only upsides.

My issue with the liner lock, is I think the large cutout that makes it so easy to unlock the knife also makes the knife less ergonomic.

If I take the clip off mine and try to open it left handed, the hole works fine. It's still well exposed. With a little contouring there it would work even better. So with a compression lock it should be possible to have no cut-out where the liner lock release is while still being able to unlock it with gloves on.

Of course I'd also be interested in the stop lock Military proposed by Sal, as I like a self close action to my folders. That idea seems to be abandoned though, so I'm not holding my breath for it to come to fruition. And I certainly wouldn't be opposed to Sal trying to fit a CBBL in these, or a power lock :D

The Military is a very fine knife. It's close to perfect in its current form. But I think a four way clip, deeper PM2 style choil and a compression lock could make it better.

The fact that its had such a long career without being revised to a version 2 is a testament to how good of a design it was at inception. While there have been little CQI updates like a new clip, finer jimping and a second liner, the basic idea has remained the same.

The Military is both a Spyderco classic, and one of their best current offerings. I have mine in my pocket as I wrote this, and expect I'll close 2021 with multiples in my collection.

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VooDooChild
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#2

Post by VooDooChild »

Great observations.

The only thing I really notice with the military is that there isnt as much of a forward guard in the non choil grip when compared to the pm2. But this does make it easier to move around on the handle so its always a trade off.

I like the large cutout for disengagement, it doesnt really mess with me ergonomically. Im sure its a little different for everybody.

As far as a military 2 goes.
Yes to a 4 way clip.
Im going to give a hard no to the stop lock or a cbbl.
Honestly given that I think Golden is making the best backlocks in the market, if the lock had to change then thats what I would want first. I could be ok with a comp lock and maybe open to a power lock.
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#3

Post by Doc Dan »

I agree with pretty much everything you said except for the choil. The choil on the Military is about perfect and is one of the few choils I will tolerate.

If the Millie were not a liner lock, the handle shape would be perfect and needs to be used more often.
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#4

Post by vivi »

VooDooChild wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:54 pm
Great observations.

The only thing I really notice with the military is that there isnt as much of a forward guard in the non choil grip when compared to the pm2. But this does make it easier to move around on the handle so its always a trade off.

I like the large cutout for disengagement, it doesnt really mess with me ergonomically. Im sure its a little different for everybody.

As far as a military 2 goes.
Yes to a 4 way clip.
Im going to give a hard no to the stop lock or a cbbl.
Honestly given that I think Golden is making the best backlocks in the market, if the lock had to change then thats what I would want first. I could be ok with a comp lock and maybe open to a power lock.
The backlock would be my first choice, but it seems the comp lock is the most likely aside from a CQI liner lock. There was talk of a stop lock Military years ago but nothing recently.
Doc Dan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:13 pm
I agree with pretty much everything you said except for the choil. The choil on the Military is about perfect and is one of the few choils I will tolerate.

If the Millie were not a liner lock, the handle shape would be perfect and needs to be used more often.
I could live with the current choil shape in a Military 2. It isn't bad. I just prefer the Para 2 / Police 4 style. The four way clip matters a lot more to me.
Last edited by vivi on Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#5

Post by kennethsime »

I usually do a write-up when I get a new knife. I've been carrying at CTS 204p Military for the better part of 6 months now, and still haven't taken the time to write it up. Now, I'm glad of that - I don't think I would have had much to add beyond what you said, Vivi. I avoided the Military for a long time, but since acquiring one it's been in my pocket more days than not. Great ergonomics combined with a crazy weight to length ratio. I don't really mind the liner lock, though I stayed away from those for years as well.

I do find the handle length just a bit excessive, and I do find the choil to be a bit small. Personally, I'm using the choil more than not. I'd be happy with a PM2 choil & 4-way clip, as well as a compression lock. And I'd be extra-happy with K390 and Ranger Green scales. This is the Military 2 we've been hoping for awhile now, and I'll be first in line to pick one up. :cool:
Last edited by kennethsime on Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#6

Post by TenGrainBread »

A stop lock Military would be super cool, but I understand why the Comp lock is financially a better choice for Spyderco.
I liked my Parata while I had it. The stop lock is a unique-feeling lock but I wouldn't call it smooth in the way a liner lock or Comp lock is. I would still buy a stop lock Military over a liner or Comp.
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#7

Post by Wartstein »

Great write up, Vivi!! :)

Just two things where we disagree:

- The choil of the Millie for me is perhaps the most perfect choil I know: Sufficient size for my finger, but not taking away lots of edge, and not TOO deep (deep choils for me tend to feel great when just holding the knife, but in real use shallower choils give me more control)
- And, no surprise: A comp. lock would ruin the Millie a bit for me.
Firstly, I actually do find the cutout for the linerlock actually comfortable in hand, a bit like chamfering (not kidding!)
Secondly, I found that a comp.lock cutout makes a knife uncomfortable and "hotspotty" in prolongued use, due to its particular location on the handle (might be the case just with my particular handsize / hand"geometry")
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- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#8

Post by acer »

Great write up. Military fantastic knife. MILITARY; STRETCH2 frn, Para 3,G10. The only spydercos you’ll ever need👍😂😂 Happy 2021 . Hoping this year we can get on top of this COVID 19 , and return to some type of normality. All the best over and TRULY IN . ACER.
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#9

Post by Doc Dan »

Apparently the comp lock Millie is still a thing. We should see one eventually. I would still prefer a back lock or a button lock or a stop lock.

I like simple locks without a lot of joints and things to go wrong. The CBBL would be okay and a lot less prone to spring breakage than an Axis lock. I wonder if there is room in that slim handle for one with a button large enough to get gloved hand on, though. I doubt it.
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#10

Post by JD Spydo »

Well Vivi this is most interesting because it parallels with a similar experience I have had in my quest for the perfect EDC folder ( PE especially). I had owned and used a few different Military models over the years but until I made one of the best trades in my "knife life" the C-36 Military was just another great model in my footlocker full of Spyderco folders.

It was a just a little over 4 years ago and I had a couple of Spyders I put up for trade that I had two of. I got an offer from a guy I had not yet traded with before. I was told by a trusted friend that he did custom handles on several folders and fixed blades. The guy offered me a hybrid C-36 Military model that had M390 blade steel that he had put different scales on. It was an M390 version with completely different hardware. It had digital camo handle/scales and it was just very slightly used which didn't bother me in the least because I wanted a Supersteel C-36 Military to use and use hard. I had owned at least 8 different Military models over the years with several different blade steels but it wasn't until I got that M390 Military that I felt like I had the ultimate EDC.

Oh I realize that there are better blade steels out there but I've had such excellent results with this M390 blade and I haven't even tried to replace this M390 Military that I've been EDCing for the past 4 + years. I had two very trusted friends tell me that I should semi-retire my M390 Military model and go to a CRUWEAR version to move up the ladder. But to me this is a clear case of " IF IT ISN'T BROKE THEN I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO FIX IT". The heat treat on this M390 blade has just made for a stalwart EDC and to this day I haven't yet been tempted to switch EDC folders.

I also have an S110V PARA2 model which is close in performance that I also dearly adore but I still like the M390 Military better for most everyday uses for a lot of reasons. OH I'm sure that in due time I'll find another C-36 Military or maybe even some other folder with a newer/better blade steel to become my main EDC but for right now I'm as happy as I can be with this M390 model that is my current main EDC. I am however looking very forward to this new Sprint Run C-60 Ayoob that is on the horizon that will be available in PE & SE both. But it would take something of that caliber to get me to even so much as consider a switch of EDC folders. Even if something new comes down the Spyderco Product pipeline that I find appealing I still doubt I ever completely retire my beloved M390 Military model. :cool:
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#11

Post by ChrisinHove »

How do you get on with the Native Chief, Vivi?

I had a user Millie for years, but px’d it for the fluted Ti version which just seems a little too nice to use! I’ve been pondering the choice between another Military and the Chief.
Last edited by ChrisinHove on Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#12

Post by Cl1ff »

Really awesome write up, as usual, Vivi!
I think the Military is one of Spyderco’s most elegant designs! I have to agree with Wartstein on its shallow choil.
Someday, I’d really like to buy a Rex45 sprint.

While the stop-lock concept is more appealing to me right now, something tells me I’ll also like the compression lock! Who knows maybe, if things go well, we’ll get both.

At the least, I hope there are models in the works using Stop-locks, CBBLs, Powerlocks, or even new ones!
No that anyone needs to be in a rush of course. I know the makers already have their hands full doing good work on existing projects!
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#13

Post by brj »

Great story, Vivi - and one I can definitely relate to. 2007 was also the year when I've discovered both the Pacific Salt and the Military and they've quickly became the golden standard to measure everything else against.

This thread triggered my own 'down memory lane' moment, I hope it's not derailing the topic, but rather adding a bit more context to your observations :)

Initially got the pacific salt for the novelty of H1, I liked it well enough but there was no epiphany, no a-ha moment, more like a "**** yeah, this would make a great summer iwb-shorts beater, let's try more of these Spydercos" and that led me to the Millie. That's the moment it all came together: that huge beats of a knife melted in the palm of my hand, was like a feather when clipped to the pocket and the monstrous twang of that liner lock was the boldest statement I've ever heard till then (or ever since). I've got first a plain jane S30V, then the D2 sprint (that sold for 118 bucks at that moment :) ) then the BG-42 version that was somehow still available more than a year later, and it's been downhill from there.

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I like and rotate all of them, but most often it's one of the FrankenMillies below:

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(left to right)
- S30V with custom Cuscadi scales. My pet project during the 2020-spring lockdown
- M390 framelock, possibly my most carried Millie ever
- S30V blade with custom scales, Ti liners and G10 full size backspacer. Feels great and hefty in hand but it weights considerably more than the others so during the last couple of years or so it hasn't been that present in the rotation (but I've been carrying it in the past as my main EDC for close to 2 years in a row)
- 2-tone orange and black S30V and my first Millie ever, still going strong. A bit of a side effect here (something to play with while waiting on my Cuscadi scales) but still turned out nice. The orange G10 is quite worn out, so the knife turned out to be easy on the jeans/pockets and still providing good traction in hand.
- and finally not a FrankenMillie, but it appears I like quite a lot S110V for EDC, with a bit of touch up every 2 weeks or so it's unbelievably good.

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:59 am
- The choil of the Millie for me is perhaps the most perfect choil I know: Sufficient size for my finger, but not taking away lots of edge, and not TOO deep (deep choils for me tend to feel great when just holding the knife, but in real use shallower choils give me more control)
Fully agree here, I can work with every type of lock Spyderco might be tempted to use on the Millie (or handle material, for that matter, or color) but if they decide to go with a more pronounced choil, that would kill the Military ergonomics for me. This is why my Native Chief sees less usage than it should, I guess.

I do try out and carry other knives, but each time I grab one of my Millies I have this moment of wondering what on Earth has possessed me and determined me to carry knife X for a number of days when any of the good old Millies were waiting for me in the drawer? To me it's not only the quintessential knife for Spyderco, but THE folder that any other should be measured against.
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#14

Post by Doc Dan »

ChrisinHove wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:45 am
How do you get on with the Native Chief, Vivi?
That's a good question. What about it, Vivi?
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#15

Post by Oloung1 »

vivi wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:24 pm
With a Police clipped tip up, the smooth back and tapered butt end make it easy to access my pocket. With the Military clipped tip down, my hand rubs against the spine jimping and the edges around the opening hole. It doesn't hurt, but it doesn't feel as nice as the Police.

Having used both tip up and tip down Military folders, for me there is no downside to tip up carry with the model, only upsides.
Thanks for the historic perspective and great write up, Vivi.

I feel what was quoted is worth mentioning again. I'm an advocate of 4 way carry clip and while it's common on most Spyderco models, other manufacturers are usually not as consistent (with non frame locks). Limits me some in testing other brand models, though I am probably in the minority that prefers tip up/left side carry.
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#16

Post by James Y »

Great post and great thread, vivi!

I love the Military. It’s the only liner lock design I will carry anymore.

My first Military was a 440V model, with “Military” etched into the blade, bought over 20 years ago. Admittedly, I’ve rarely used it, due to 440V’s reputation of being a bear to sharpen. I own a total of only 4 Millies, my favorites being the two S30V models I have.

Even if the Military had a tip-up option, I’m not sure if I would use it myself. With such a large blade, I could see it having a greater chance of working open in the pocket, even if the back of the blade is against the side of the pocket. The bigger/heavier the blade, the less I trust a little ball detent to hold it closed in tip-up position.

One of the things I love about the Military is that, although its handle is large, it fits my hand perfectly, and I have medium-sized hands.

I would love to see a regular production Military in SPY27.

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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#17

Post by Menipo »

Many thanks for your great write up, Vivi!!!

My history with the Millie is also very long. In the fall of 1999 I was walking through the streets of Toledo (the "Spanish Seki" where legendary steels have been forged and where there is a cutlery shop on every street). I saw her in one of those shop windows. More than two decades ago American knives were something truly exotic here, and being used to traditional Spanish pocket knives, it seemed so weird to me that I went into the store and asked to see it. As soon as I had it in my hand it was love at first sight and I had no problem paying the $ 215 they asked me for it. That was a small fortune considering that a high end Spanish craft custom folding knife then costed around $ 100 (standard Toledo knives of good quality costed $ 20-25). I also remember that when I asked for the box, (In those small stores the purchased good was usually just wrapped in paper) the owner of the store gave me the box of a C18 Wayne Goddard Jr. Since he would not speak a word of English, he surely had confused the boxes and gave the box of my Millie to the customer who bought the C18. :D
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#18

Post by anycal »

Good read!

My history with the Military is going on 5 years. But from the very first camping trip with it, it changed what knives I carry and use for outdoor activities.

I would use a fixed blade for almost everything, and rarely use a folder. In a way it probably had to do with the folders I used before Syderco. For various reasons, just not optimal for the tasks. The Military replaced my need for a fixed blade in 90% of the things I do outdoors these days. I guess to some extent, other :spyder: folders had also something to do with it.

The Military impressed me from the first time I pulled it out of the box. It seems like such a simple design. Could not believe how light it was compared to its size. How slim it was, yet ergonomic for a flat handle knife. Love the negative blade angle during harder cuts. The heft of the blade allows me to run the pivot a little tighter while maintaining smooth action. Which allows for zero blade play. That, both lock types (liner and RIL), and the thicker blade stock make the knife feel very solid. And that's why my need for a fixed blade has been greatly reduced.

I am a fan. If you have been around for a while, you had the opportunity to experience a variety of steels. To date, the 204P has seen the most use. But the S90V CF/Ti is my favorite.

Looking forward to how Spydeco implements the compression lock on this knife.

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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#19

Post by elena86 »

The KW CF/Ti framelock exclusive Military in S90V is my most treasured Spyderco. A Military to end all Militaries IMO.
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Re: Spyderco Military Observations

#20

Post by vivi »

ChrisinHove wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:45 am
How do you get on with the Native Chief, Vivi?

I had a user Millie for years, but px’d it for the fluted Ti version which just seems a little too nice to use! I’ve been pondering the choice between another Military and the Chief.
I've handled one but have not owned it yet. I like the ergonomics, but felt the opening hole was a touch less exposed than I'm used to compared to my Police. I'm waiting for the Rex45 version to release to give it a test drive. I've been wanting to try that steel but I missed the Military run and the other Rex45 knives are a bit small for me.
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