M398 Steel Testing – Edge Retention, Toughness, and More

[lilshaver]

And

If you just melted all the steel left over sheets from 10 different steels.

What would you get…

Basically a big mess.

[Larrin]

Tool steels are made with recycled steel but they have to know what it is they are recycling if they are going to use previously used steel directly. It isn't uncommon for them to get used tooling, etc. and use that.

[JRinFL]

Tool steels are made with recycled steel but they have to know what it is they are recycling if they are going to use previously used steel directly. It isn't uncommon for them to get used tooling, etc. and use that.

That good to know. I was always worried about it just being wasted.

[sal]

It's a little more complicated than frying an egg. Once the steel come in, we have to begin our "lab testing". Grinding, heat treat, sharpening, etc to determine optimal performance. We use "mules" much like Shawn's "coupons" and we go through the testing. Once it is determined where we want to get to, we'll begin a run of "Mule Teams" making at least 1500 pieces.

Lab testing is good, but we've had Real World Testing (RWT) contradict lab testing more than once so a well rounded balance of lab and People using Mule Teams is a good indication for us to decide where we want to go with the steel.

sal

[aaronkb]

I can’t for the life of me figure out why people still want this steel after reading Larrin’s article…. There are so many other steels I’d rather see them explore.

[sal]

Hi Aaron,

We'll get to them as well. We can do about 4 per year. "Better" is an interesting view. I usually try to think, at least with regards to steel, is "All good, just different". Some will hold an edge longer, some are more corrosion resistant, some are tougher, some a good at just being cheap.

The Mule Team projects lets us and you do some Real World Testing. We've tested many steels and then used them in production and depending on the model and function, some steels are more effective in some areas than others. Also, some steels like CPM-Cruwear or CTS-XHP are popular because they're a good balance of attributes or folks just like them.

sal

[aaronkb]

Hi Aaron,

We'll get to them as well. We can do about 4 per year. "Better" is an interesting view. I usually try to think, at least with regards to steel, is "All good, just different". Some will hold an edge longer, some are more corrosion resistant, some are tougher, some a good at just being cheap.

The Mule Team projects lets us and you do some Real World Testing. We've tested many steels and then used them in production and depending on the model and function, some steels are more effective in some areas than others. Also, some steels like CPM-Cruwear or CTS-XHP are popular because they're a good balance of attributes or folks just like them.

sal

Thanks for the reply, Sal!

I think Spyderco’s curiosity about steels is one of the best traits of the company, so I didn’t mean to come off like I was grumbling about you testing it - I’m just surprised to see so many people on the consumer side clamoring for it. It might be a “good” steel as far as combination of crazy edge retention and decent corrosion resistance, but I can’t think of a single use case where it wouldn’t be beaten out by something with similar edge retention, similar or superior corrosion resistance, and dramatically better toughness.

As for the other 3 you could potentially be doing, I’m dying to know what else you’re looking at. Any chance of Vanax on the horizon? How’s that 15v collab coming along? Of course, it seems like Magnacut might change our perspective on a lot of steels as well.

[Buddafucco]

I can’t for the life of me figure out why people still want this steel after reading Larrin’s article…. There are so many other steels I’d rather see them explore.

I don't think Rex45 got a glowing review from Larrin, but a lot of people still love it in their knives. I do. And I know you like using it in your can openers!

[lilshaver]

Tool steels are made with recycled steel but they have to know what it is they are recycling if they are going to use previously used steel directly. It isn't uncommon for them to get used tooling, etc. and use that.

This is very interesting. You could get some unique mixes this way to test. Thanks Larrin.

[aaronkb]

I can’t for the life of me figure out why people still want this steel after reading Larrin’s article…. There are so many other steels I’d rather see them explore.

I don't think Rex45 got a glowing review from Larrin, but a lot of people still love it in their knives. I do. And I know you like using it in your can openers!

Oof, busted I’ll have to check out what he said about it

[Buddafucco]

I can’t for the life of me figure out why people still want this steel after reading Larrin’s article…. There are so many other steels I’d rather see them explore.

I don't think Rex45 got a glowing review from Larrin, but a lot of people still love it in their knives. I do. And I know you like using it in your can openers!

Oof, busted I’ll have to check out what he said about it

This is the KnifeSteelNerds article he wrote that I saw it mentioned in... https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/05/10/ ... 15-rex-76/

[aaronkb]

I can’t for the life of me figure out why people still want this steel after reading Larrin’s article…. There are so many other steels I’d rather see them explore.

I don't think Rex45 got a glowing review from Larrin, but a lot of people still love it in their knives. I do. And I know you like using it in your can openers!

Oof, busted I’ll have to check out what he said about it

This is the KnifeSteelNerds article he wrote that I saw it mentioned in... https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/05/10/ ... 15-rex-76/

It’s funny, I thought everything he said about it lined up pretty well with my take until the summary! But it sounds like he doesn’t personally value edge strength much, and that’s where he acknowledged Rex 45 really shines.

I also love how well Rex 45 responds to stropping, which is outside the scope of that article

[Cycletroll]

Another great article Larrin!
FWIW S90V has a minimum toughness/Retention ratio and suits my needs for a stainless user steel. No interest in me for m398.

[XuZaX]

So if I may revive this thread again

Sal. I’m getting wrestles here. It’s been almost another year since I asked where all these m398 knives are. Lol. Hurry up. I get r&r and testing. Butt it’s been nearly 2 years since steel was ordered or so it seems. I’m only interested in your production m398 because I know out of nearly all production companies. You guys typically give us the best heat treats on steels.

I collect steels. But i can’t buy a steel I know may not have a half way decent treatment. So here I am still waiting. With over 40 steels and 100 pocket knives. I need m398 still lol

Ps. Thanks for the props for reviving the thread the last time. Love this community and the people in it

[legOFwhat?]

I still have fingers crossed for an M398 mule!

[yablanowitz]

So if I may revive this thread again

Sal. I’m getting wrestles here. It’s been almost another year since I asked where all these m398 knives are. Lol. Hurry up. I get r&r and testing. Butt it’s been nearly 2 years since steel was ordered or so it seems. I’m only interested in your production m398 because I know out of nearly all production companies. You guys typically give us the best heat treats on steels.

I collect steels. But i can’t buy a steel I know may not have a half way decent treatment. So here I am still waiting. With over 40 steels and 100 pocket knives. I need m398 still lol

Ps. Thanks for the props for reviving the thread the last time. Love this community and the people in it

Just so you will know, 2 1/2 to 3 years is average lead time between ordering steel and putting out a Mule Team knife. And that's without a global pandemic gunking up the supply chain and workforce.

[sal]

Hi XuzaX,

Welcome to our forum and thanx much for the interest and support. It's in-the-works.

sal

[yablanowitz]

And

If you just melted all the steel left over sheets from 10 different steels.

What would you get…

Basically a big mess.

And if my understanding is anywhere close to reality, it would be ingot steel. Any powder metal technology advantages would vanish as the steel melted.

[metaphoricalsimile]

Hi XuzaX,

Welcome to our forum and thanx much for the interest and support. It's in-the-works.

sal

Let me know if this is too much to ask, but can you share any general findings from early testing?

[sal]

Hi Simile,

We haven't received the steel yet. These runs take a while when they have to make the batch for us. Most of the foundries do not stock the kinds of steels with which we are playing.

sal