The sad realization that I cannot live without choils...

[Albatross]

Today is a bittersweet day; I've realized some of the knives I've had my eye on for a while, are not going to work for me. The simplification of my buying criteria is nice, and somewhat comforting, but the realization that certain knives won't work for me, is difficult to accept.

I know there's a recent thread about choils, but I didn't want to hijack it.

I have known that choils are a preference of mine, but what I did not realize, was how important they are to me. Knives like the Endura work for me, because the ricasso offers enough room for my index finger to grasp, much like a choil. It's not as secure or roomy as a choil, but it works. I truly dislike the distance between the handle grip and cutting edge on all knives. For the people who want a cutting edge that extends all the way to the handle: I think we have similar tastes in this regard, but take different approaches to get around it. Choil vs extended cutting edge. Tomatoes tomahtoes.

I love most things about the Mantra 2, but the lack of a choil confuses my hand. Where does my index finger go? What about my thumb? I'm being dramatic, but there was a moment where I had to think about finger placement.

When I pick up the Shaman, Manix, PM2, Para 3, or P4, I use the choil and am not left wanting for other grip options. I've said this before, but I truly believe that most (all the ones I've tried) knives with a choil, are designed to be more comfortable when using the choil. Maybe it's just how my hand is.

The GB2, Chef, and Ikuchi are off the list now. These knives would have filled certain rolls for me, but would also give me a chance to see what all the hype has been about.

Maybe I need to instead look at the Chaparral, Chief (when a salt comes out), and?

The really unfortunate thing about this realization is that it excludes some of the more slim (Ikuchi) or interesting (Chef) designs. I like slim pocket knives, which is why I own a Mantra 2, but it would be nice to see some slim blades, with choils, and some titanium framelocks with choils. Heck, if we could get a Chef with a choil, I would buy one instantly. An Ikuchi or similar design, with a choil would push me to buy 2.

Am I the only one passing on knives without choils? Does anyone else think choils make the grip more comfortable?

[SG89]

I'm pro-finger choil and I also get hand-confused when I have a knife without one.

[TkoK83Spy]

You're not alone brother, I too love me a choil! Or at least a ricasso...full length cutting edge like on the SpyOpera is an instant NO for me. The way I see it, this preference helps me save A TON of money by easily ruling out certain knives. Don't look at it as a bad thing (says your wallet) haha!

[RustyIron]

The only place I'd disagree is on the Manix 2 XL. The handle is big enough to accommodate my whole hand, with plenty of breathing room. I don't need a choil on that knife.

[Sharp Guy]

A few years ago I only wanted knives with finger choils. Now I've started going the other direction. I still like my models that have finger choils but knives like the Mantra, Sliverax, GB2, Southard, etc and some non-Spyderco models have changed my view. I don't miss the lack of a finger choil on those at all.

[odomandr]

I am the exact opposite. I cannot get it through my mind to choke up on the blade to put a finger up there. i grew up on slip joints and using the bolster on them or being cautious to not slip my grip off the handle. I love the ikuchi, chef, and centofante and they are my current rotation. Ive got the gb2 & opera on my list. I like an edge to the hilt. I am trying to get used to it on the roadie and something small i understand that is useful. I just havent gotten use to it because i tend to gravitate towards designs without it

[Albatross]

I am the exact opposite. I cannot get it through my mind to choke up on the blade to put a finger up there. i grew up on slip joints and using the bolster on them or being cautious to not slip my grip off the handle. I love the ikuchi, chef, and centofante and they are my current rotation. Ive got the gb2 & opera on my list. I like an edge to the hilt. I am trying to get used to it on the roadie and something small i understand that is useful. I just havent gotten use to it because i tend to gravitate towards designs without it

For what it's worth, I've never slipped out of a choil. I actually think, despite what my eyes and brain told me prior, that a choil with jimping is more secure than many knife handles are.

Having said that, it sounds like you have a nice lineup and some interesting models on your list, so enjoy your choil-less knives! I am a bit jealous...

[JuPaul]

Today is a bittersweet day; I've realized some of the knives I've had my eye on for a while, are not going to work for me. The simplification of my buying criteria is nice, and somewhat comforting, but the realization that certain knives won't work for me, is difficult to accept.

I know there's a recent thread about choils, but I didn't want to hijack it.

I have known that choils are a preference of mine, but what I did not realize, was how important they are to me. Knives like the Endura work for me, because the ricasso offers enough room for my index finger to grasp, much like a choil. It's not as secure or roomy as a choil, but it works. I truly dislike the distance between the handle grip and cutting edge on all knives. For the people who want a cutting edge that extends all the way to the handle: I think we have similar tastes in this regard, but take different approaches to get around it. Choil vs extended cutting edge. Tomatoes tomahtoes.

I love most things about the Mantra 2, but the lack of a choil confuses my hand. Where does my index finger go? What about my thumb? I'm being dramatic, but there was a moment where I had to think about finger placement.

When I pick up the Shaman, Manix, PM2, Para 3, or P4, I use the choil and am not left wanting for other grip options. I've said this before, but I truly believe that most (all the ones I've tried) knives with a choil, are designed to be more comfortable when using the choil. Maybe it's just how my hand is.

The GB2, Chef, and Ikuchi are off the list now. These knives would have filled certain rolls for me, but would also give me a chance to see what all the hype has been about.

Maybe I need to instead look at the Chaparral, Chief (when a salt comes out), and?

The really unfortunate thing about this realization is that it excludes some of the more slim (Ikuchi) or interesting (Chef) designs. I like slim pocket knives, which is why I own a Mantra 2, but it would be nice to see some slim blades, with choils, and some titanium framelocks with choils. Heck, if we could get a Chef with a choil, I would buy one instantly. An Ikuchi or similar design, with a choil would push me to buy 2.

Am I the only one passing on knives without choils? Does anyone else think choils make the grip more comfortable?

Yep, I like choils quite a bit, too. And when you're really used to them, it's pretty easy to accidentally choke up on the blade itself when you pick up a knife without one. I had to retrain my brain this summer when I tried a few choilless knives (like the Caribbean and the spyopera).

Have you owned a Kapara? It's a nice slim design, but still has a shallow choil.

[Albatross]

Today is a bittersweet day; I've realized some of the knives I've had my eye on for a while, are not going to work for me. The simplification of my buying criteria is nice, and somewhat comforting, but the realization that certain knives won't work for me, is difficult to accept.

I know there's a recent thread about choils, but I didn't want to hijack it.

I have known that choils are a preference of mine, but what I did not realize, was how important they are to me. Knives like the Endura work for me, because the ricasso offers enough room for my index finger to grasp, much like a choil. It's not as secure or roomy as a choil, but it works. I truly dislike the distance between the handle grip and cutting edge on all knives. For the people who want a cutting edge that extends all the way to the handle: I think we have similar tastes in this regard, but take different approaches to get around it. Choil vs extended cutting edge. Tomatoes tomahtoes.

I love most things about the Mantra 2, but the lack of a choil confuses my hand. Where does my index finger go? What about my thumb? I'm being dramatic, but there was a moment where I had to think about finger placement.

When I pick up the Shaman, Manix, PM2, Para 3, or P4, I use the choil and am not left wanting for other grip options. I've said this before, but I truly believe that most (all the ones I've tried) knives with a choil, are designed to be more comfortable when using the choil. Maybe it's just how my hand is.

The GB2, Chef, and Ikuchi are off the list now. These knives would have filled certain rolls for me, but would also give me a chance to see what all the hype has been about.

Maybe I need to instead look at the Chaparral, Chief (when a salt comes out), and?

The really unfortunate thing about this realization is that it excludes some of the more slim (Ikuchi) or interesting (Chef) designs. I like slim pocket knives, which is why I own a Mantra 2, but it would be nice to see some slim blades, with choils, and some titanium framelocks with choils. Heck, if we could get a Chef with a choil, I would buy one instantly. An Ikuchi or similar design, with a choil would push me to buy 2.

Am I the only one passing on knives without choils? Does anyone else think choils make the grip more comfortable?

Yep, I like choils quite a bit, too. And when you're really used to them, it's pretty easy to accidentally choke up on the blade itself when you pick up a knife without one. I had to retrain my brain this summer when I tried a few choilless knives (like the Caribbean and the spyopera).

Have you owned a Kapara? It's a nice slim design, but still has a shallow choil.

I haven't owned a Kapara, but it has been calling to me. The more slender profile (when open), and the contoured handle, really speak to me.

[anycal]

...
I love most things about the Mantra 2, but the lack of a choil confuses my hand. Where does my index finger go? What about my thumb? I'm being dramatic, but there was a moment where I had to think about finger placement.
...
Am I the only one passing on knives without choils? Does anyone else think choils make the grip more comfortable?

I am with you on the Mantra. :spyder: got us real good with them choils, didn't they.

Don't get me started on how many times I tried to close my GB2 and Stretch as a compression lock :D

[ChrisinHove]

I have large hands and a choil is the best way to extend grip length without extending the handle. I equally dislike cramped grips and finger guillotines, so prefer choil’d designs.

[Sharp Guy]

Don't get me started on how many times I tried to close my GB2 and Stretch as a compression lock :D

Ha! I've tried to do that a few times too. I also have another model or two that my hand thinks should be a liner/frame lock. Kind of weird how that happens

[prndltech]

I can’t recommend the Chaparral enough. I been toting the lightweight clipless, in the pocket. It’s lock up is SOLID. I have zero movement in either direction. The SS back spacer and the liners give it a very solid feel. I cannot find a flaw, Definitely the Taichung quality that got them their reputation (my example at least).

I’m surprised to say that it has become one of my favorite pocket knives to date. I’m glad I gave it a chance, I all but dismissed it and sold it (i picked it up used, a while back). I made myself carry it for a week straight after I sharpened it and it is now staying with me forever. If I lost it today, I’d immediately order another one. It even sits in the shirt pocket well at work. It is a true “edc” knife that is perfect for all the mundane tasks, I can’t wait to really test it! The dragonfly passed, so I know this will.

[vivi]

I can understand feeling a little down when you realize certain things just aren't going to work for your preferences.

The ATR was a personal favorite, but by the time the ATR 2 came out, which fixed the two things I disliked about the original, I had decided I'd stop buying compression lock knives. They don't keep the knife closed as well as my lifestyle requires.

I am 100% with you on wanting my hand as close to the edge as possible. But I am 0% with you on requiring a choil to get that grip.

Look at a Resilience or Caribbean or Rockjumper. Those essentially get your hand as close to the edge as any choil does. I don't see a downside to those designs.

What makes a knife like that feel like it won't work for you compared to choils?

[Wartstein]

Well, I absolutely disliked finger choils for quite some time - not the choils themselves, but the fact that they do shorten the available cutting edge (imho more edge makes a knife more versatile)

Nowadays I actually like the choked up grip on many models. It has a certain balance and feel that I can appreciate. Still: In order to being really able to enjoy the finger choil on certain models, I have to accept beforehand that I have a rather small knife (concerning cutting edge) in hand and have to deal with that fact.
Best example for that is the Manix 2 LW: I really love the choked up grip when working with it, but for me it is not a big knife, but rather a smaller working knife, that offers extremely good and versatile ergos.

/ What I have to say here again, though I know it is not too popular on this forum (but my and others honest experience): Folks, it is no problem to choke up even on a really sharp cutting edge of a knife if done right. You won´t get cut just cause you put your finger on the edge (accidentely or deliberately). I use that grip all the time on my Enduras and other knives in various tasks - and never ever hurt myself. Though of course a choil (or Ricasso) is a lot more comfortable for that, no doubt!

[JuPaul]

Don't get me started on how many times I tried to close my GB2 and Stretch as a compression lock :D

Ha! I've tried to do that a few times too. I also have another model or two that my hand thinks should be a liner/frame lock. Kind of weird how that happens

Yes! The Wolfspyder, for one. Every single time I hold it, I go for the liner lock that isn't there.

[Menipo]

I haven't owned a Kapara, but it has been calling to me. The more slender profile (when open), and the contoured handle, really speak to me.

I don't like choils. When I grab a knife I feel that the place for the hand is the handle. The blade is "the other" part of the knife, the one that must not be touched by the fingers, specially in the edged portion. But it is just me and it is probably the consequence of having used, since I was a kid, our traditional navajas which are the opposite of a choil: as the brass bolsters are rounded and slippery, one learns very soon to keep the forefinger far from the place where the blade starts ....

I am sure that you will love the Kapara. IMO it is one of the best Spidies ever. It has the virtue of having a choil (even shallow) for those who love choils and not having a true choil (even putting the forefinger in that "handle choil" one can avoid touching the blade) for those who don't like them (like me) :D

[tomcatt1]

I just got my first knife with a choil, the Shaman, so I've had to be careful when I pick up the Tenacious not to slide my finger up on the blade. I don't find myself doing that with the Chef, and the more I use it the more I like the Chef, so I would not pass on the Chef just because of no choil. :)

That being said, I understand setting rules about knives, so get the ones that you like!

I had to come back and edit. I forgot that the Meerkat has a choil, but that one is pretty much needed cause of how small the knife is. I'm not big fan of small knives though :)

[aicolainen]

It's your thread and your preference, so I'm not going to say you're wrong, but I can't say I agree.

I have quite small hands, and for knives larger than a Chaparral, the choil mostly feels like wasted cutting edge.

The mentioned Chaparral as well as the Dragonfly is my favorite implementations of a choil, full four finger grip on a very small and pocket friendly knife and just utilizing the space that would otherwise be taken up by a ricasso.

Backlocks get a pass because some "wasted" space is kind of integral to their design, but even there I hope to more handle forward designs mitigate this on larger backlocks in the future.

[Evil D]

Choils just make more sense on some knives and less sense on others. I don't think I'd base this realization on how any of the Mantras feel unless you have really small/thin hands, because it's not quite a full grip handle for me so I definitely understand how it could feel like it needs a choil because my pinky finger is struggling to have a place to grip so if I could just scoot my hand forward and put my index finger somewhere then the rest would feel much roomier.

It's a different story on the Rock Jumper, Caribbean, Tenacious/Resilience. I just don't see what a choil could improve on those.

Another thing is, there's an ergonomic issue with using choils during hard use. The Shaman feels amazing to me when gripping it on the choil, but it really doesn't feel too great trying to really white knuckle grip that choil for harder use, so then I drop back behind the choil and now I'm too far from the edge and and I lose leverage and cutting power. I can't wait to see the choilless Shaman whenever it comes out.

On the other end, I can't imagine a Native 5, Dragonfly, Caly 3, Lava,.... without a choil. Like you said, I'm pretty sure some designs are intended to be gripped on the choil while other models like the Military (to me) feel like an option more than a dedicated grip design. I think most of the struggle with all this is designing a knife that feels "right" when gripped in either position, and for me it's always one or the other that feels better and then the other option is a waste of space on either end of the grip.