Spyderco Forums

From what I'm about to propose, some may think I'm crazy. At the very least it's totally subjective and unscientific. At the worst, I'm totally bonkers and gone off the deep end.

When you cut yourself, SOME STEELS HURT MORE THAN OTHERS. There, I've said it. My head tells me it's mostly about the edge......blade geometry, thickness, grind, bevel, coarseness, smoothness, etc. My nerve endings scream that carbon steel hurts worse!!!

Not gonna admit to having a long and voluminous history of cutting myself, but it does go back a ways. Back when we were young and stupid, my best friend and I ordered a couple of Henckel folding lock backs from Eddie Bauers. (Yes, same lineage as Henckel kitchen cutlery.) I got a stag handled lock back bird knife complete with button hook for $21.95 and he got a lock back sod buster with carbon steel blade and cherry wood scales for $12.95. (yes, it was that long ago.) After much handling the cherry wood now looks like straight grained walnut.

We were young enough that we seemed to find bright shiny objects more captivating. One day he came over and said, "This thing stains too easily, I'm gonna get a Buck" and proceeded to toss it in the trash bin. I retrieved it and said, "Don't do that." To which he replied, "You want it? Keep it." I then became its adoptive parent. I've used and worn that carbon steel lock back Henckel Sod Buster in a Buck leather pouch for many years. A heck of a lot more than my fancy stag handled nickel silver bolstered lock back Henckel bird knife.

My friend passed away a few years ago. It's one of those precious treasures that I would never ever think of selling even though some e-bayers seem to think it's precious, too. I don't really use or carry it much these days, but on occasion I will retrieve it from my collection to fondle and work the action. Sometimes I get a little bleary eyed as it takes me back to a time and place when things were more certain. I can also recollect the times I've cut myself with it and it hurt like ****! From sharp coarse to polished push cut it didn't matter. It hurt more than stainless. I've got my fair share of carbon steel kitchen cutlery.........Sabatier, LF&C, Cattaragus, Henckel, and Gustav Emil Ern come to mind among others. They all seem to hurt more and longer than stainless steel.

I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking it was a figment of my imagination but the nerve endings in my hands and fingers beg to differ. Is there something about the chemistry of simple carbon steel or certain impurities therein? I do know that the surface of an apple cut with one of my carbon steel kitchen knives will rust much quicker than one cut with one of my stainless kitchen knives.

Can anyone out there tell me it's not a figment of my imagination?

Don't know about different steels, but a cut from a dull knife always hurts more than a cut from a really sharp one. Sometimes, with the later, the first indication I've been cut is when I see, or feel warm liquid on my skin. So I'm not sure if the type of steel has anything to do with what you're seeing, or if it's just the result a combination of the acuteness of the edge grind, thickness of the blade, sharpness of the edge, and the finish of the edge. Contaminants can also be a factor, a cut from a blade with pretty much anything on it will transfer at least a small amount of that "thing" into the wound.

From a Chemist's point of view: stainless steel means, that the metal is less prone to oxidation (we're living in an oxidizing environment, so this ist the most likely way, metal changes its oxidation state). Once happened, the resulting metal cations (ions with a positive charge) will/can be dissolved in water (again: the most likely solvent in our environment) and can therefore interact more easily with any part of our body. For a low alloy steel, this kind of chemical reaction (rust) comes quickly, so one can find a much greater concentration of soluble metal ions on any surface of such a steel.
That said, I don't know if metal ions can cause pain, but if so, this could be a possible explanation.

we do know that certain common chemical compounds have a marked effect on pain perception of wounds - salt, for instance. Plus, blood and the circulatory system rely on iron compounds to both carry oxygen as well as signal various processes.

Ferric Chloride has been studied as a clotting agent...

So who’d like to volunteer for a series of tests to advance our scientific knowledge? :D

I used to work in a pharmaceutical and hospital supply warehouse, and was surprised that some of the scalpels supplied for surgery were made of non stainless carbon steel.

I volunteer Bloke.

Doc Dan wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:54 am

I volunteer Bloke.

lol!!

It’s impossible to state whether carbon steel blades hurt more than stainless blades or not. Not unless you take two identically-sized, shaped, ground and finished blades, and cut or stab yourself in the exact same ways and depths, in the exact same places (or the exact opposite sides of your body from each other).

Jim

I agree that sharper knives hurt less.

Actually, a more refined edge hurts less. A polished edge at high sharpness hurts less than a coarse edge at high sharpness.

Basically, the cleaner the cut the less it hurts. I think this is why paper cuts hurt so bad. They are not a very clean cut.

Ok I’m just going to have to take your words for it since I have no intention of testing it myself. Lol

I have not used my knives today because I’m still recovering from the scare I had in my dreams. I dreamt that I tested 10 different Spyderco knives by cutting each of my finger tip off!! Thanks God it was only a dream!

Not very scientific but over the weekend I managed to cut myself 3 times with 3 different steels. :eek:

First was a 52100 chef's knife I had just sharpened. I was wiping down the blade and cut through the rag right into my thumb, didn't notice it til I saw the blood. Second was a Hap40 santoku and I did the same thing but got my index finger this time. Both were small cuts and not painful. The third happened when I wasn't paying attention and dropped the blade of my Spyderhawk onto my knuckle. Again not a serious cut but definitely stung the most of three.

I'm gonna say placement of the cut and geometry were the two biggest factors since the first two were carbon steels with thin geometry into softer flesh and the last was a stainless SE that hit bone.

I was convinced for a while that very high carbide steels sharpened to the same grit hurt more. I'm talking S60V, S90V, S110V, Maxamet, etc. I tell myself it must be my imagination but my imagination can be pretty convincing . Brass and copper seem to hurt more than steel for whatever imaginary reasons. Copper especially.

My most painful cut of all time was a lid from tuna fish or cat food can, I can't recall which at this time. It was opened on my electric can opener and was pretty jagged. That was the one that scraped down to and along the bone. I needed inside and outside stitches on that and it took a long time to heal. It hurt worse than any slice or stab I've ever had and including ones that stuck into bone like a dart board.

Doc Dan wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:54 am

I volunteer Bloke.

James Y wrote: It’s impossible to state whether carbon steel blades hurt more than stainless blades or not. Not unless you take two identically-sized, shaped, ground and finished blades, and cut or stab yourself in the exact same ways and depths, in the exact same places (or the exact opposite sides of your body from each other).

Jim

Blackpearl wrote: ...I’m still recovering from the scare I had in my dreams. I dreamt that I tested 10 different Spyderco knives by cutting each of my finger tip off!! Thanks God it was only a dream!

C’mon Bloke, step up mate! A few little nicks in the name of science won’t hurt ya! :p :D

Pearl’s already done the hard part in establishing a good testing protocol. :eek:

And in fairness, I think we oughta test different types of stainlesses and carbon steels... maybe a few tool steels too, just to be sure. :D

Then how about SE vs PE? :eek:

C’mon, enquiring minds need to know! :eek: :D :p

Finally, a thread that i can weigh in on as an expert. I’m not proud of it, but last Week Tuesday the heel of my d2 chef knife caught a right hand finger. Didn’t feel a thing. Only noticed it by the blood. Thursday nite, I sent the edge of an AEB-l honosuke into a left finger. A very sharp, very toothy edge and I felt it bite in. Felt the grab of the teeth. Friday nite, Jeeze! Another right thumb cut from the heel of a hap-40 gyuto. This one hurt. The wife is starting to get worried, like maybe........ I’m losing it and should stick to collecting watches or something. Saturday nite, a serrated bread knife to a left finger. Not even drinking. As you all (probably)know, serrated is the worst. Second worst, I nominate a sharp toothy edge. Sunday nite= take out pizza. For the next few weeks, i’m maintaining polished edges on everything. I’ll get thru this.
Dee
Four nicks in five days.

I think a toothy edge would be more painful than a smoother edge. It is likely that if a knife has oil or other chemicals on it, the knife will hurt a lot more than a regular cut from a clean knife (ask me how I know!). I think it feasible that some chemical properties of some steels might be more painful to a small select number of people with specific sensitivities.

Dee wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:25 pm

Finally, a thread that i can weigh in on as an expert. I’m not proud of it, but last Week Tuesday the heel of my d2 chef knife caught a right hand finger. Didn’t feel a thing. Only noticed it by the blood. Thursday nite, I sent the edge of an AEB-l honosuke into a left finger. A very sharp, very toothy edge and I felt it bite in. Felt the grab of the teeth. Friday nite, Jeeze! Another right thumb cut from the heel of a hap-40 gyuto. This one hurt. The wife is starting to get worried, like maybe........ I’m losing it and should stick to collecting watches or something. Saturday nite, a serrated bread knife to a left finger. Not even drinking. As you all (probably)know, serrated is the worst. Second worst, I nominate a sharp toothy edge. Sunday nite= take out pizza. For the next few weeks, i’m maintaining polished edges on everything. I’ll get thru this.
Dee
Four nicks in five days.

That truly is dedication to science. :eek: Your sacrifice is greatly appreciated. Simple carbon steels like 1095 don't seem to like me.