Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

[Co Pilot]

Jim, Takuan
Jim happy to share it, hopefully it helps someone. Please everyone remember it's MY experience, it may not be gospel. And, yes, sadly society does frown on self defense, ESPECIALLY if you strike/hit first. You're seen as the aggressor. Odd since you can obviously shoot first if you're justified in shooting in self defense AND can articulate why you did. Worse than odd it's dangerous because usually the only way to win a unarmed fight is to hit first. Let's face it most of us can't and don't want to take the first blow/s. And don't have to legally but hard to explain/justify how you "knew" he was going to hit you. Can it be done? Of course but a loooong, expensive legal journey probably.
About the pepper spray perhaps don't give up on it. It's a very useful tool in many, many situations. You and Takuan gave a few examples, animals, multiple unarmed attackers. And it's easier to "justify" and for most jurors to swallow the use of it because they or someone they know may have a tiny, expired, keychain model on them or in their purse, that they will use for their sd. Sabre is considered a good brand. Many professional's are recommending the POM unit. I don't really have any ideas on how to make sure it's working beyond what you said you did. Perhaps think of it the way many who carry a firearm legally are taught too and do think, it might not stop my attacker or it may malfunction/jam. Be prepared for that possibility. There's an excellent trainer who kind of specializes in pepper spray use for self defense and offers training classes in it. Sadly can't think of his name. If I do I can post it here or message you. Let me know.

Takuan, excellent information and advice. I totally agree on not having an overly "tacticool" or aggressive looking knife, tacticool pen or flashlight. Bright colors are great. Not only for the reasons you stated but I believe subconsciously they look less threatening and more "toy" like! Yes toy like. Hence less threatening. NEVER underestimate what people/law enforcement/jurors feel. Our gut reactions/subconscious is a funny thing and a BIG player in how we make decisions. Ones we don't even realize. None of us who might unfortunately have to use force to defend ourselves want's to be judged, perhaps literally, wrongly because someone at the gut level just felt the tool we used was "wrong".

Sorry if this has been too much thread drift.

[Co Pilot]

A follow up on "scary" self defense tools and the subconscious. I once used a DragonFly to open an evidence bag in front of a jury. Later on a gentleman on the jury asked why I needed "such" a knife. I took it out to show it to him, saying "It's quite small". His ridiculous response? "I bet it's sharp though". This is who you'll have as "peers"
I believe I know part of what scared or upset him. I had opened the knife out of the jury's view, PURPOSEFULLY NOT to upset them. One handed. He heard the "snap" when it opened, perhaps magnified by the acoustics of most court rooms, saw I had opened it one handed and assumed it was a switchblade?

[James Y]

Not too much thread drift at all, Co Pilot. Thank you for sharing.

Yes, as Takuan says, a "scary-looking"/tacticool knife will likely not be looked at kindly by a jury. But even something as benign as a miniature Swiss Army knife can be seen by some as a "deadly weapon." Much less a small,, innocuous-looking Spyderco knife. Sad, really sad. People can be weird. REALLY weird. And unfortunately, that weird wussification among some jurors, and the public in general, can end up costing a law-abuding citizen in a trial, if they were ever forced to defend themselves or a loved one with a knife.

Jim

[Co Pilot]

Jim, remembered the guy who offers excellent training and info on the selection and use of OC sprays if you're interested. Chuck Haggard of Agile training and consulting, at agiletactical.com. He's a veteran of 28 years with the Topeka Police Department. And his other credentials are impressive. There's a good if somewhat dated video on his website under the Video Gallery section on Pepper spray selection, use and training.

[Takuan]

I’ve had experiences similar to Co Pilot’s where people get intimidated by a one-handed knife opening because they think you might have an automatic knife. It’s funny how opening the exact same knife slowly with two hands will get little to no reaction from the same people. I always carry two knives when I’m on campus: a medium-sized folder (e.g., a Para Military 2) and a small, “socially appropriate” folder (e.g., a Dragonfly Salt with its happy yellow handle). When I need to do a chore, I open the small folder with two hands, grip it using the choil to minimize its apparent blade length, and then close it slowly with two hands to make it look as much like an old-school jackknife as possible. The only comments I’ve received about the Dragonfly when opening it this way are things like, “That’s a cool little knife!” It didn’t go so well when I snapped the blade open one-handed to help a colleague cut the polypro straps on a box of copier paper (which she was trying to saw through with one of her keys). She said, “Oh my God, why do you have that?” I replied, “Because it’s sharper than a key!” I don’t think she was amused.

[Takuan]

When I typed the bit about my Dragonfly Salt having a “happy yellow handle,” it made me think of Bob Ross…

[James Y]

Jim, remembered the guy who offers excellent training and info on the selection and use of OC sprays if you're interested. Chuck Haggard of Agile training and consulting, at agiletactical.com. He's a veteran of 28 years with the Topeka Police Department. And his other credentials are impressive. There's a good if somewhat dated video on his website under the Video Gallery section on Pepper spray selection, use and training.

Thanks, Co Pilot. I'll look into watching that video.

Jim

[James Y]

I’ve had experiences similar to Co Pilot’s where people get intimidated by a one-handed knife opening because they think you might have an automatic knife. It’s funny how opening the exact same knife slowly with two hands will get little to no reaction from the same people. I always carry two knives when I’m on campus: a medium-sized folder (e.g., a Para Military 2) and a small, “socially appropriate” folder (e.g., a Dragonfly Salt with its happy yellow handle). When I need to do a chore, I open the small folder with two hands, grip it using the choil to minimize its apparent blade length, and then close it slowly with two hands to make it look as much like an old-school jackknife as possible. The only comments I’ve received about the Dragonfly when opening it this way are things like, “That’s a cool little knife!” It didn’t go so well when I snapped the blade open one-handed to help a colleague cut the polypro straps on a box of copier paper (which she was trying to saw through with one of her keys). She said, “Oh my God, why do you have that?” I replied, “Because it’s sharper than a key!” I don’t think she was amused.

I've had varying responses to my knives. Back in the '90s, an entitled, obnoxious woman (what would be called a 'Karen' nowadays) saw me cutting some paper with the tiny scissors on my tiny Victorinox SAK Classic and said, "I hope you realize that you're carrying a deadly weapon." And no, she wasn't trying to be funny, either. I could have made a snappy comeback with, "Lady, your breath is a deadly weapon," but instead, I ignored her.

OTOH, I worked for 13 years at a massage/wellness center (before Covid) and used all kinds of knives at work, to open and break down supply boxes, cut plastic strapping, etc. And none of my co-workers there, nor either of my two female bosses, ever had a problem with them. And the knives I used were from Delica-sized up to Military and Police model sizes. I never opened them with a flourish around anyone, but quietly opened them, used them, and put them away. I became known as 'the knife guy', but in a positive way. My actions, without my having to tell them, showed that knives are useful everyday tools, even if they themselves never carried them. And they were the type of people that many "knife guys" would probably prejudge to be anti-knife at first glance. I like to think that during my years working there, I was a good ambassador for utitarian knife carry.



Jim

[James Y]

Sucker Punch Analysis: Stupid Mistakes Got This Guy Robbed

The guy wearing the blue shirt and glasses clearly lacked even the tiniest degree of street smarts/awareness. I'm surprised it wasn't also pointed out how he kept putting his hands in his pockets.

You DO have to keep your attackers in your sight, and constantly maneuver to keep them from surrounding you. I fought off three gangsters during an attempted kidnapping in Taiwan by constantly moving and striking, and keeping them in each other's way. The Kenpo training I received in my younger years included multiple attacker scenario training and pressure sparring, which saved my life.

https://youtu.be/jw0uhlEosAM

Jim

[Co Pilot]

I’ve had experiences similar to Co Pilot’s where people get intimidated by a one-handed knife opening because they think you might have an automatic knife. It’s funny how opening the exact same knife slowly with two hands will get little to no reaction from the same people. I always carry two knives when I’m on campus: a medium-sized folder (e.g., a Para Military 2) and a small, “socially appropriate” folder (e.g., a Dragonfly Salt with its happy yellow handle). When I need to do a chore, I open the small folder with two hands, grip it using the choil to minimize its apparent blade length, and then close it slowly with two hands to make it look as much like an old-school jackknife as possible. The only comments I’ve received about the Dragonfly when opening it this way are things like, “That’s a cool little knife!” It didn’t go so well when I snapped the blade open one-handed to help a colleague cut the polypro straps on a box of copier paper (which she was trying to saw through with one of her keys). She said, “Oh my God, why do you have that?” I replied, “Because it’s sharper than a key!” I don’t think she was amused.

Funny is one way to describe their ignorance and child like fears. It also might be ONE way to describe how easy it is to change their opinion by opening two handed, bright colored handles, etc. The intelligence level of of my fellow man continues to astound, disappoint and terrify me. Remember they'll be on the jury. And they vote!!
With regard to two knives,I do and did the same. The Dragonfly I used that day was my "socially appropriate" knife! And it still upset the sheep. These days it's been downsized to a Lady Bug because the DF might be to terrifying! I wonder how he felt about the Glock 19 I was carrying in a duty holster. I did learn to open with two hands from this.

[Co Pilot]

I’ve had experiences similar to Co Pilot’s where people get intimidated by a one-handed knife opening because they think you might have an automatic knife. It’s funny how opening the exact same knife slowly with two hands will get little to no reaction from the same people. I always carry two knives when I’m on campus: a medium-sized folder (e.g., a Para Military 2) and a small, “socially appropriate” folder (e.g., a Dragonfly Salt with its happy yellow handle). When I need to do a chore, I open the small folder with two hands, grip it using the choil to minimize its apparent blade length, and then close it slowly with two hands to make it look as much like an old-school jackknife as possible. The only comments I’ve received about the Dragonfly when opening it this way are things like, “That’s a cool little knife!” It didn’t go so well when I snapped the blade open one-handed to help a colleague cut the polypro straps on a box of copier paper (which she was trying to saw through with one of her keys). She said, “Oh my God, why do you have that?” I replied, “Because it’s sharper than a key!” I don’t think she was amused.

I've had varying responses to my knives. Back in the '90s, an entitled, obnoxious woman (what would be called a 'Karen' nowadays) saw me cutting some paper with the tiny scissors on my tiny Victorinox SAK Classic and said, "I hope you realize that you're carrying a deadly weapon." And no, she wasn't trying to be funny, either. I could have made a snappy comeback with, "Lady, your breath is a deadly weapon," but instead, I ignored her.

OTOH, I worked for 13 years at a massage/wellness center (before Covid) and used all kinds of knives at work, to open and break down supply boxes, cut plastic strapping, etc. And none of my co-workers there, nor either of my two female bosses, ever had a problem with them. And the knives I used were from Delica-sized up to Military and Police model sizes. I never opened them with a flourish around anyone, but quietly opened them, used them, and put them away. I became known as 'the knife guy', but in a positive way. My actions, without my having to tell them, showed that knives are useful everyday tools, even if they themselves never carried them. And they were the type of people that many "knife guys" would probably prejudge to be anti-knife at first glance. I like to think that during my years working there, I was a good ambassador for utitarian knife carry.



Jim

It sounds like you were and thanks for that. I'm truly surprised the Military or Police didn't scare them, did they ever get a good look at them?

[James Y]

It sounds like you were and thanks for that. I'm truly surprised the Military or Police didn't scare them, did they ever get a good look at them?
[/quote]


Although they generally didn't pay much mind to my knives, on a few occasions a co-worker asked if they could see the knife. It happened with a couple male colleagues, and a couple female colleagues. They were impressed by the smoothness of the actions, and the sharpness, before handing them back. These occasions involved my SS SE Police, SE Tasman Salt, G10 Para 3, and my CRK large 21 Insingo. The other knives they just saw now and again, but me using them just became a part of the background.



Jim

[Co Pilot]

It sounds like you were and thanks for that. I'm truly surprised the Military or Police didn't scare them, did they ever get a good look at them?

Although they generally didn't pay much mind to my knives, on a few occasions a co-worker asked if they could see the knife. It happened with a couple male colleagues, and a couple female colleagues. They were impressed by the smoothness of the actions, and the sharpness, before handing them back. These occasions involved my SS SE Police, SE Tasman Salt, G10 Para 3, and my CRK large 21 Insingo. The other knives they just saw now and again, but me using them just became a part of the background.



Jim
[/quote] Interesting. You would think most of those would terrify the average non knife person, especially the SE Police. Sounds like you gave them a different and more positive perspective. Kudos.

[James Y]

Thanks, Co Pilot. I think they weren't afraid because they'd become habituated over time to seeing me and my knives.



Jim

[James Y]

Beginner Fist and Wrist Conditioning

This basic conditioning exercise actually comes from Chinese martial arts, though not too many practitioners nowadays do it. I started doing this exercise when I trained in Taiwan. Even back then, I was one of the only students that did it. I did it straight on the hard floor, with no towel. I did use a folded piece of cardboard if I did it where I lived, because the hard tile floor there would get slippery if your hand was sweaty in Taiwan's heat and humidity.

He mentions starting with one minute and building up to 5 minutes each side. Just my opinion, but 3 to 5 minutes is too long. This position cuts off the circulation in your supporting fist. It isn't necessary to hold the position for more than one to two minutes on each side. It's not as if it's the only exercise there is to do.

I strongly recommend using a proper dit da jow liniment on the hands both before and after such conditioning, as well as massaging and flexing the hands/fingers. It's important to avoid doing long-term damage for the sake of conditioning.

This is a rudimentary-level exercise for " Iron Fist" (NOT the Marvel character) training. It aligns and strengthens the fist, wrist, etc., so they can handle the force of impact that your body puts into a punch. Also, your fist will deform less on impact, so the force your punch imparts into the target (say the opponent's body/torso) will have greater penetration.

Before you try this exercise, I recommend you be able to do knuckle push-ups easily. If your wrists and fists aren't strong enough to do that with two hands without buckling, it won't be safe to hold this "fist stand" position supported by one fist. It's also vitally important to maintain full concentration while holding this position; another reason not to hold it for too long, as the mind may tend to wander. The hands and wrists have small, fairly delicate bones and articulating joints, so this isn't the same thing as holding a horse stance for 5 to 30 minutes.

https://youtu.be/F8j3Qegduy8

Jim

[James Y]

Uriah Hall Teaches How to Throw a Spinning Hook Kick

https://youtu.be/bUUE3xpZ550

Uriah Hall Spinning Hook Kick KO:

https://youtu.be/Bj3xL9zoY1M

Jim

[James Y]

Lee Morrison: How to Double Your Striking Power

https://youtu.be/YHeOW2DPiY4

Jim

[James Y]

Lee Morrison: How to Use Brain Engagement and Misdirection Before Striking

https://youtu.be/lbgYo3JpAes

Jim

[Evil D]

So I grew up with two uncles who both worked their way up to black belts in Taekwondo. I would never claim that I know anything but I did fool around with them both quite a bit when I was a teen.

Funny thing about these guys is they grew up in a certain suburb around Cincinnati that was not the most mellow...and let's just say they had a reputation for holding their own so to speak. There was an incident at my house once when I was about 13 where a man came into my yard and attacked my mother, and the eldest of those two uncles came to her defense (while I went for the shotgun). My uncle nearly killed the guy, but didn't do one bit of Taekwondo on this guy. Afterwards we all talked about it and he said his instinctive reaction was everything he learned from fighting in the streets as a teen and that it never even occurred to him to do any of the moves he had learned. Fortunately the shotgun wasn't loaded and I couldn't find any shells or I might be posting this from prison.

[James Y]

So I grew up with two uncles who both worked their way up to black belts in Taekwondo. I would never claim that I know anything but I did fool around with them both quite a bit when I was a teen.

Funny thing about these guys is they grew up in a certain suburb around Cincinnati that was not the most mellow...and let's just say they had a reputation for holding their own so to speak. There was an incident at my house once when I was about 13 where a man came into my yard and attacked my mother, and the eldest of those two uncles came to her defense (while I went for the shotgun). My uncle nearly killed the guy, but didn't do one bit of Taekwondo on this guy. Afterwards we all talked about it and he said his instinctive reaction was everything he learned from fighting in the streets as a teen and that it never even occurred to him to do any of the moves he had learned. Fortunately the shotgun wasn't loaded and I couldn't find any shells or I might be posting this from prison.

Thanks a lot for sharing this, David. I’m glad to hear that the man who attacked your mother got what he deserved.

This is a good point about natural fighting instincts taking over when it’s for real (i.e., outside of the martial arts school, competition, etc.). I’ve seen martial artists use skills from their art effectively on the street, and I’ve seen others who were also effective, but showed little to nothing of the martial art(s) they practiced. Believe it or not, I’ve even seen a few fights involving boxers, and MMA guys, who resorted to wild slugging instead of any particular ‘trained’ skills. Especially when there is EMOTION involved.

I’ve been in a few street fights when I was young and stupider. In not one of them did I ever show anything stylish. In a couple of them, I KO’d guys with a single, sudden, pre-emptive, full-body torque, open-hand slap to the side of their head/jawline area. In each case, while they were in the middle of saying something. I did use skills and strategies I’d learned in Kenpo multiple attacker scenario training years earlier against three men who tried to abduct me one time; but again, nothing “fancy,” or anything that would look cool in a movie. And another time, a Judo throw that caused a KO.

In my youth, I was mostly known for my kicks, which I used to great effect in competitions, including full-contact. But I never threw a single kick in any of the “real” fights I was in, not even any low kicks. And I never even assumed a “fighting stance” or “fighting posture” in any of them, either. TBH, in real fights, I never cared how I looked, or which “style” I used, although (since I didn’t have dozens of street fights under my belt), it was my training that helped me develop the power, timing, proper distancing, mobility, and the instinct/will to win. The ability to act and react properly.

IMO, simple and effective means far more than being system-or-style-conscious. Trying to look fancy or stylish in a real fight “might” work, IF you’re forced to subdue a drunk 80 year-old professor running amok at a cocktail party. But it can also get you clobbered or killed. In the sudden stress of *real* fighting, if you have *too many* options in your head, it creates “analysis paralysis.” As one of my teachers used to say, “If you hesitate, you meditate, in a horizontal position.”

For myself, the “artistic” side of martial arts helped keep me interested in training, and gave me different ways to fight in competition/competitive sparring. And to develop different types of physical coordination, balance, and mental flexibility, that just doing practical skills alone may not have developed.

Jim