Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

[James Y]

I like the dirty Judo! I'll let you know if I find a DVD. I looked on em3 videos and did not find it but it's all over YouTube. I'll download what I can because well, if a guy is trying to destroy me on the street I'll use it.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dirty+judo


The only time that I was injured was in Hapkido around 95. This other guy and I were tossing each other pretty hard onto the mat and the next thing I knew my right shoulder was killing me. I did not land properly. I never went to the doctor or had it looked at. At the time, I thought that the ball on my right arm rolled out of the shoulder socket, moving toward my chest. But I think it just damaged the socket a bit, maybe tore the surrounding cartilage a bit.

After all of these years the only part of my body that aches is my lower back(spinal stenosis) and my right shoulder. I also slightly tore the meniscus on my left knee while running in a Winter snow storm in Iowa with a weighted pack. It does not bother me. I don't ski, and I no longer run much. So I'm good to go!



It's always fun until the pain starts to really get to you after the initial injury. Pain can really be something else.

Right now the only thing keeping me from signing up for boxing or muay thai is money and being just a bit out of shape. Not sure whether or not I'll be able to walk as planned this Spring, but so far it's a go. One day at a time!

I think I already posted about the time a basic Judo falling technique saved me from a potentially serious injury. This happened in 2015. By then, I hadn't been in a Judo dojo since 1979...so 36 years. I was doing an early morning walk, and in the semi-darkness, my foot caught on a hard-to-see bump in the street, and then caught my other foot when I tried to catch my balance. I instinctively did a basic Judo front fall and landed perfectly. It happened really fast. I was unhurt, except for some cuts and scrapes on my palms (the road had some little rocks on it).

I was amazed that after all those years, that Judo breakfall technique came out so quickly and naturally when it was needed. You could call that a successful example of using Judo for self-defense against injury from a fall onto a paved road.

Jim

I have this new neighbor, not sure where she is from, maybe Australia or UK based on the flag she flies in front of her home.

She's been here for maybe 5 years and we have owned our home since 82. She has her sump pump water flow directed into the county sewer. She is unincorporated so she gets away with it.

She complained about the water from our sump pump, and demanded we spend thousands of dollars for a french drain and additional upgrades. She came over and complained 3x about the water discharge and we are 100% legal, and that is the way we have directed our water since we moved in. Well, I listened to her once and ran the sump water discharge down the driveway and across the sidewalk(ILLEGAL - but I did it to appease her).

I was walking down the sidewalk 6 months later and it had slimy silt built up on the sidewalk making it slippery and I fell like a load of bricks on the concrete. I fell on my back and it was so fast. Luckily I tucked my chin to my chest or I would have split my head open.

The water is back in the backyard where it belongs.

I'm glad you weren't more badly hurt. A backwards fall is definitely worse than a forward fall.

That neighbor sounds like a real piece of work.

Jim

[James Y]

3 Wrong Things People Think in Street Fights

*Video below.

What he says about not judging a book by its cover is what I say all the time. However, I'll go him one better. You also can't always tell how well a person might be able to handle himself by the way he walks, or from his body mechanics when he hits the pads at the gym. You won't ever see a potential attacker hitting the pads before he attacks you, and if you see someone doing that at the gym, he's not going to be the guy who's going to ambush you on the street. So that example is pretty silly. It depends more on his *level of awareness* as he moves through his environment. Some people who don't train or exercise much at all, or who may walk like they're old, can still be dangerous, if forced to be.

The reason I always say, "Don't Underestimate Anyone," ad nauseum, is because most people ALWAYS underestimate others based on their appearance (their physical size, build, race, sex, mannerisms, clothing, etc.). Or they OVERestimate others based on those same factors.

https://youtu.be/zb25tQDKu1s

Jim

[James Y]

How William Fairbairn Created the Modern SWAT Team in Warlord-Era Shanghai

Great video. Although he vastly understates Fairbairn's martial arts experience. Besides Jujutsu, among other things, Fairbairn also had some training in Baguazhang, most likely the first Westerner to ever do so.

As far as Fairbairn "only" having achieved a 2nd-degree black belt in Jujutsu (or early Judo); IMO, most black belt degrees mean little, other than appearing impressive. Beyond a certain point, black belt degrees are awarded more for one's contributions to an art, such as research, teaching, or promoting it, as opposed to representing greater physical proficiency. Does anybody really believe that a 60-or-70-plus-year-old with a 7th or 8th-degree black belt has superior fighting ability to when he was a 1st or 2nd-degree?

It also must be mentioned that belt ranks mean more in some arts (as well as in some time periods) than in others. For example, a Judo black belt is typically going to be MUCH harder to achieve than, for example, a black belt in modern Tae Kwon Do. How much more difficult would it have been to have earned even a 1st-degree black belt in early Judo in the early 20th century, when belt degrees were rare, and you really had to earn them the hard way?

With the real-world fighting experience that Fairbairn had, which is researchable, he could have been a 50th-degree black belt. That is how capable he was.

Belt rank-wise, I've only achieved as high as a 1st-degree black belt in Kenpo, and a 2nd-degree black sash in Choy Lee Fut. In Tanglangquan (Northern Praying Mantis Boxing), my sifu declared me as instructor level; there were no belt rankings at all, only a basic sash worn to protect your waist during twisting and power generation.

I know the martial arts is relatively unimportant to a discussion of Fairbairn's formation of the first SWAT team, but this is a martial arts thread, and the gentleman mentioned Fairbairn's martial arts experience in passing, so I thought I'd discuss that a bit.

https://youtu.be/bzIdO1VEbFk

Jim

[Naperville]

LIVE RIGHT NOW FROM THAILAND, 04/07/2023 AT 7:40AM CST


ONE Championship, "Friday Fights 12," Petsukumvit vs. Kongthoranee


https://youtu.be/QV0y6yNIyac

https://youtu.be/QV0y6yNIyac

[James Y]

LIVE RIGHT NOW FROM THAILAND, 04/07/2023 AT 7:40AM CST


ONE Championship, "Friday Fights 12," Petsukumvit vs. Kongthoranee


https://youtu.be/QV0y6yNIyac

https://youtu.be/QV0y6yNIyac

Thanks, Naperville!

Jim

[James Y]

"Martial Arts is 95% Commercial Bull****" / Bruce Lee Drops a Bombshell on Ed Parker's Students

Grandmaster Chuck Sullivan looks awesome. If he was 30 in 1963, he would be 90 this year. He appears healthier and mentally sharper than a lot of folks in their 60s and 70s.

BTW, Bruce Lee didn't have a speech impediment; he spoke English with a Cantonese accent. Which is why, when he spoke English, his speech pattern sounded a bit like Elmer Fudd

https://youtu.be/E90wMCgyojI

Jim

[James Y]

Old Military Kendo Was Deadly!

*Video below.

Great stuff in this video!

This is true for most martial arts; aesthetics and overemphasis on ritual didn't start playing a significant role until the 20th century. Which approximate decade of the 20th century depends on the art, but the majority of the better-known martial arts were pretty much changed, or beginning to change, post-WW2. There are many reasons for this, the biggest of which is the greatly reduced role of hand-to-hand combat, and the near nonexistent role of spears and swords, in modern warfare. Another reason is stricter laws around self-defense, and fighting in general.

Many people today denigrate martial arts as useless from the POV of how they appear today (emphasis on kiddie Karate daycare, etc.), and fail to realize that the original methods from which those arts evolved were mostly designed to cripple or kill other people. And the training in the past was brutal by today's standards. In modern times a lot of impractical fluff has been added, and a lot of the really effective stuff designed for life and death combat has been altered to be safer to practice, deleted, or has been preserved and taught by a relatively small number of practitioners.

For example, today there are many practitioners of various Kung Fu systems who practice and teach forms with no understanding of the actual meaning of the movements, their principles or their applications, or the training methods that make them effective. Kung Fu systems originally had very few forms (in fact, forms were only one aspect of Kung Fu and not a main focus), and the ones they did have weren't aesthetic-looking at all, compared to the flashy, gymnastics-like performance art of modern Wushu, which began its development during the 1950s, and which many non-Kung Fu people equate with "traditional" Kung Fu. These are some of the reasons why there are so many Kung Fu "masters" and students who cannot fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Or many have to resort to outside methods, such as modern kickboxing, when they spar.

The fact is, real "traditional" martial arts were not too unlike modern MMA, in terms of emphasizing function over aesthetics, only less rule-bound, far more brutal, and also involving weapons. So in a way, modern MMA, although it is a sport, is probably closer to "traditional" martial arts, in terms of methodology, than most would care to admit. And although some teachers of the better modern combatives methods don't consider their methods as martial "arts," they are not too dissimilar to "traditional" martial arts of the past.

https://youtu.be/O41cqvNGeU8

Jim

[James Y]

Closed Fist Punches or Open-Handed Strikes for Self-Defense?

This argument has been going on at least since around WW1.

Many SD/combatives instructors warn not to use punches in street combat, as you can easily break your own hand. Others, mainly combat sports enthusiasts, say that open-handed strikes don't work, and that only closed-fist punches are effective.

I've personally used both in real (non-sporting) fights, and I never injured my hand, including when I punched a guy in the skull. That said, in my own practice, I no longer train to throw punches to the head. I still train punches to the body, though.

Why? Because I've known, as well as met and spoken to guys whose hands were permanently messed up from punching in street fights. One guy's middle finger bone and its main knuckle were permanently misaligned and pressed down to the point he couldn't even close his hand into a fist anymore, due to a punch landing wrong in a fight, and this was when we were in high school. Other guys have shown me their messed up hands/knuckkes, which they admitted became that way from throwing punches in street fights.

To be clear, 'punches' means fist blows thrown in alignment with the forearm and hand bones, and landing with the base knuckles. Even though hammer fists are closed-fisted, they strike with the side of the hand (the same striking surface as an open-handed chop), and are therefore not 'punches'. Backfist strikes, even though they do land with the knuckles, are also strikes and not true punches. For example, all legal boxing blows are true punches.

There are many instances of punches used to amazing effect on the street without injury to the puncher's hand. But the risk is still there. Boxing gloves and hand wraps were invented to protect the fighter's hands, NOT to protect the opponent from concussive impact. In fact, many people can and do punch much harder with hand wraps and gloves on than they do bare-fisted. In a real SD fight, your hands will not be wrapped and gloved.

I've mentioned before that I scored easy KOs in 2 different fights with a single, short, open-handed slap (not even with the palm heel). But using full body torque, similar to a boxers hook. It took far less effort than a punch would have required, with far less risk of injuring my hand. One of the recipients was even noticeably larger than me.

Punches are perceived as being more manly, more dangerous, and more effective, because the closed fist is the symbol of fighting, and is the weapon used in empty-handed fights in movies and dramatic TV shows. Punches are also the only legal strikes in boxing.

In the end, the choice is up to you. Some people are more comfortable with and suited to using closed-fist punches in real fights and never have any problems. And vice versa.

I will add that anyone who believes that open-handed strikes (palm heel, edge-of-hand chops, or claw hand to the eyes) and hammer fists are ineffective, believe so because they never train them, at least not seriously; therefore, they lack the knowledge of and confidence in them, so those strikes will NOT work for them. Or maybe they view self-defense from a sport fighting context.

To become good at something and to become effective with it, you have to have a valid understanding of what you're doing, and then have a practical training method to develop it. Then you must *train it religiously.* Then, if it still doesn't work for you, at least your point is valid that they don't work for YOU. The same as when I trained Judo as a kid; there were a couple of Judo throws that never worked for me, no matter what. Yet there were other people for whom those throws worked just fine. The fact that I couldn't make them work for myself didn't invalidate the techniques themselves.

Jim

[James Y]

What Really Happened Between Bruce Lee and Victor Moore? Eyewitness, Grandmaster Chuck Sullivan

*Video below.

Vic Moore was a very well-known Karate tournament fighter of the 1960s and into the '70s. For at least the past several years, and most likely for the past 56 years, he's been telling this story of how he "beat Bruce Lee" at a speed demonstration given by Bruce Lee at a 1967 tournament.

Vic Moore was definitely one of the pioneers of American Karate and Karate tournament fighting. That fact is undisputed. BUT, he did not "beat" Bruce Lee in that demo. To be fair, Bruce was not throwing "punches;" he was throwing an eye jab, which for safety purposes clearly fell short of Vic Moore's face by about 2 feet. But the point is, Vic Moore's blocking hand came up too late to have stopped Bruce Lee's hand/arm if he had gone for his eyes.

So do I believe Vic Moore? No. IMO, for a "master," he's acting petty and jealous. Its clear that for 56 years, he's been bitter about a silly little demonstration that proved absolutely nothing. He's probably also bitter because Bruce Lee went on to become a worldwide icon who is still inspiring and beloved by countless people around the world, even 50 years after his death; while he, Vic Moore, is unknown except to his family, his students, and for a diminishing number of surviving American former 1960s-era Karate tournament fighters.

Ego is a harsh taskmaster. It fuels the need to always be seen as "The Best." It makes mountains out of molehills. It attaches grave importance to things that are unimportant, and magnifies them. For probably all 56 years since, Vic Moore has been telling a false narrative that he "beat" Bruce Lee in a speed demo that most who even saw it would have forgotten about, because it bruised his ego.

I'm glad that there are honest martial artists out there like Chuck Sullivan, who are willing to call people out on their BS, including his contemporaries.

I have no problem at all admitting when someone has gotten the better of me, whether in sparring, in competition, or if it was in a meaningless little speed demo. If it had been me, if anyone even asked me about it, I would've said, "Yes, I was in a little speed demonstration given by Bruce Lee, and my blocking arm came up too slowly. His finger strike fell short, but he probably would've gotten me if he had moved that quickly, but with commitment. Bruce Lee was very fast. What can I say? I got to meet Bruce Lee." Period. End of story.

Note: Bruce Lee is one of my idols (and not because of his movies). But I am not a Bruce Lee worshipper. He was a legitimately super-talented martial artist, and was highly intelligent; but he was also a showman. The trick of that demo is not that Vic Moore was slow; it was that Bruce Lee was fast, AND that *action is faster than reaction.* In the grand scheme of things, demonstrations like that mean nothing.

https://youtu.be/8LG-6wLIBr0

Jim

[James Y]

John "Awesome" Anderson Street Fight Seminar

(Video below)

John "Awesome" Anderson was the head doorman (bouncer) at one of the most dangerous clubs in Coventry, England, where Geoff Thompson worked in the '80s, in an era when clubs there were a literal testing ground of what worked or didn't work in actual fights. Geoff Thompson mentioned him in his book, Watch My Back.

I don't remember if John Anderson had training in boxing or was self-taught, but Geoff Thompson, who won over 300 street fights over his approximate decade-long time as a bouncer, mostly with one-punch KOs, has said that he would never have wanted to tangle with John Anderson. That tells you A LOT about John Anderson's ability.

At the beginning of the video, Anderson shows an unconventional hook punch, striking with the first two prominent (index and middle finger) knuckles, with the fist turned completely over (little finger side of the fist higher than the thumb side). His version differs from the conventional boxing hook, which is thrown either palm down, or palm in (towards you). Some of the trainees are later seen punching the pads using conventional methods.

I no longer emphasize closed-fisted strikes to the head, except for hammer fists, for self-defense. But if I did still did, it would probably resemble the hook the way he demonstrates at the beginning. It resembles the shortened knuckle version of Choy Lee Fut's Sau Choi strike, with the thumb side of the fist down, palm outward, and striking with the index and middle finger knuckles.

John Anderson is definitely a man who can effectively throw closed-fisted punches for one-punch KOs on the street.

https://youtu.be/EifJYeemANc

Jim

[Naperville]

I'm glad you weren't more badly hurt. A backwards fall is definitely worse than a forward fall.

That neighbor sounds like a real piece of work.

Jim

James, I was more injured from that then any other injury in my life! I was laid up for 2 months.

I don't care one way or the other about her, I have no bad feelings or ill will toward her, but she avoids me now. I laugh when I think about her spunk. That's fine if that is what ticks her boxes. I get along with 99% of people so she is an anomaly. I go out of my way not to discuss difficult issues and create bad juju with neighbors.

I do not know the religions or how people vote of all of my neighbors. I can guess at one or two, but life is too short to care about things like that. They love the town and are excellent neighbors, so what is not to like. I lucked out on where I live. Family owns the home and there is no way I could afford to live here on my own. I cannot afford a home, that is just how things worked out.

I do have my own knife collection and decent sized library though!

[James Y]

I'm glad you weren't more badly hurt. A backwards fall is definitely worse than a forward fall.

That neighbor sounds like a real piece of work.

Jim

James, I was more injured from that then any other injury in my life! I was laid up for 2 months.

I don't care one way or the other about her, I have no bad feelings or ill will toward her, but she avoids me now. I laugh when I think about her spunk. That's fine if that is what ticks her boxes. I get along with 99% of people so she is an anomaly. I go out of my way not to discuss difficult issues and create bad juju with neighbors.

I do not know the religions or how people vote of all of my neighbors. I can guess at one or two, but life is too short to care about things like that. They love the town and are excellent neighbors, so what is not to like. I lucked out on where I live. Family owns the home and there is no way I could afford to live here on my own. I cannot afford a home, that is just how things worked out.

I do have my own knife collection and decent sized library though!

Sorry to hear it was that serious. But glad that it wasn't even worse. Falls are scary at any age.

Luckily, I get along with pretty much all of my neighbors.

I also have quite the library. There are some books I got during the early pandemic era that I still haven't gotten around to yet. I haven't been buying any books since. I have a good knife collection, but I'm not buying any knives, either. Last one was my Native Chief, bought in December 2021. There are a few I'd still like to get someday, but I'm in no hurry, and for now, my money is used only for essentials.

Jim

[James Y]

1 Brutally Honest Reason Men are Weak in Street Fights

https://youtube.com/shorts/ZGHO1EqoBn8?feature=share

Jim

[James Y]

Same Old, Same Old (my name for it)

*Video below.

Interesting that this guy says how useless martial arts training is, and yet the book he's shilling for is by Paul Vunak, a very well-known, legit martial artist. The guy in the video has that classic, ultrafast speech pattern of a conman. To the point that, at first, the ad looks like a comedic spoof.

It's the same type of ad that ran on the back covers of magazines and comic books back in the 1960s and '70s. "With almost no training, you can beat muggers, rapists, and bullies, with the secret method that will make you 10 times more effective than a Karate master."

I have no interest in the "free" book. It very well could have some very valid information. But I strongly dislike the forced, scam-sounding hype around it. The same hype with which countless other, now mostly-forgotten "new" methods have been presented over the years.

The real truth is, if something is learned, taught and used as a combative fighting method, it IS martial arts, regardless of how simple it is or its origins. ALL martial arts originated as no-rules "dirty" fighting. The so-called clean, rule-bound martial arts fighting is called combat sport fighting.

https://youtu.be/pyJ416N6Wlc

Jim

[twinboysdad]

R.A.T. Is rebranded SCARS by Jerry Peterson IIRC

[James Y]

R.A.T. Is rebranded SCARS by Jerry Peterson IIRC

I thought they were different. Many years ago, I read that Jerry Peterson was originally a black belt in a system called Kung Fu San Soo. Paul Vunak of R.A.T. was (is?) a Jeet Kune Do instructor.

Jim

[Self Taught]

The best martial arts for anyone is wrestling and jiu jitsu. I competed at a high level in jiu jitsu and had the opportunity to spar with many people types of people. World champs, heavyweights, lightweights, special forces, police, mma fighters, Olympian’s... the list goes on. A good base in wrestling will get it to the ground in seconds. Then between wrestling and jiu jitsu you can control your opponent with ease. It takes years of practice and dedication cause there’s no short cuts to fighting

[James Y]

Street Fights Compilation: Karate, Judo, Boxing, BJJ, Etc.

Many of these are indeed street (young male ego) fighting, and not legitimate self-defense. Off the top of my head, only the two boxing examples, the BJJ/rear naked choke in the subway car, the Judo throw and grappling near the glass doors, the guy who Karate chopped the pimp, and the Karate guy on his front porch who struck the young bully, looked like legitimate examples of self-defense.

The rear naked choke could very well have also been Judo. BJJ didn't invent chokes and grappling; BJJ was developed from Judo, which itself was developed from older Jujutsu styles, which had the RNC. I learned Hadaka Jime (rear naked choke) in Judo back in the 1970s, years before BJJ came onto the scene in the US.

The "Kung Fu" guy didn't look like any legitimate Chinese martial arts fighting method I've ever seen. He looked like a poser who was copying something he saw in a movie or something.

Of course, the video is age-restricted, so it cannot be embedded.

https://youtu.be/9jn6JOkEUX8

Jim

[Naperville]

That is a pretty good channel. I'll have to go back a few times.

I watched the video below from the same channel because it was UFC. I like the street stuff too but some of the UFC stuff is great because the fighters are both trained(supposedly )...this guy below likes to use people's heads for a punching bag!

Marvin Vettori Highlights - Marvin 'The Italian Dream' Vettori
https://youtu.be/WfT67QFMCpE

[James Y]

That is a pretty good channel. I'll have to go back a few times.

I watched the video below from the same channel because it was UFC. I like the street stuff too but some of the UFC stuff is great because the fighters are both trained(supposedly )...this guy below likes to use people's heads for a punching bag!

Marvin Vettori Highlights - Marvin 'The Italian Dream' Vettori
https://youtu.be/WfT67QFMCpE

Thanks for posting that, Naperville.

Jim