Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

[Naperville]

Instagram Post - Readable by anyone I would think.

Guy off the street tries to start a fight at a BJJ Dojo:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0dOaQHM8QL/

[James Y]

Thanks for your posts, Naperville!

Jim

[James Y]

End Fight in 3 Seconds

I REALLY like this video. What he says is very true. There is a world of difference between FIGHTING and SELF-DEFENSE, and a difference between self-defense and self-OFFENSE.

I strongly recommend listening to the entire video. The gems of wisdom he imparts in the latter part of the video are 100% true, and are totally misunderstood by probably 98% of the people who post online comments and criticisms of various martial arts.

https://youtu.be/y0cW0MgLp1s?si=P0TgyQvxW235LgEg

Jim

[twinboysdad]

End Fight in 3 Seconds

I REALLY like this video. What he says is very true. There is a world of difference between FIGHTING and SELF-DEFENSE, and a difference between self-defense and self-OFFENSE.

I strongly recommend listening to the entire video. The gems of wisdom he imparts in the latter part of the video are 100% true, and are totally misunderstood by probably 98% of the people who post online comments and criticisms of various martial arts.

https://youtu.be/y0cW0MgLp1s?si=P0TgyQvxW235LgEg

Jim

Outstanding message but oof that delivery…I have a headache from the screaming. He makes some points that few instructors will or do

[Naperville]

Thanks for your posts, Naperville!

Jim

[James Y]

End Fight in 3 Seconds

I REALLY like this video. What he says is very true. There is a world of difference between FIGHTING and SELF-DEFENSE, and a difference between self-defense and self-OFFENSE.

I strongly recommend listening to the entire video. The gems of wisdom he imparts in the latter part of the video are 100% true, and are totally misunderstood by probably 98% of the people who post online comments and criticisms of various martial arts.

https://youtu.be/y0cW0MgLp1s?si=P0TgyQvxW235LgEg

Jim

Outstanding message but oof that delivery…I have a headache from the screaming. He makes some points that few instructors will or do

Yeah, that delivery... I actually like it, though. At least he keeps his audience's attention and gets right to the point he's making.

There are a TON of martial arts-related videos on YouTube where the person talks on and on and on and on, before they actually say anything of value, much less actually show anything. Even if they're only showing one simple, basic movement, they blather on and on nonstop for minutes at a time, about tiny little details that could have simply been shown in half a second. Those types of videos are a great cure for insomnia. Martial arts are not about the intellect, they are experiential; they are about developing instinctual actions and reactions. Those come from visual learning and physical practice. It doesn't come from 30-minute verbal explanations of tiny details of a movement.

One example: Way back when I was a student in Kenpo, I taught myself the spinning hook kick and jump spinning hook kick, and used it effectively in sparring and competitive fighting. That kick was not taught in our school; we had the hook kick, but not the spinning hook kick, which has a much wider range of motion. I learned it from seeing some brown or black belt doing it a few times at another school that I visited only once, replaying his movement in my head, and perfected it on my own. Nowadays, with YouTube, you can simply replay a video of a movement to see all the details of it over and over again. As long as the person whose movement you're modeling after is good at it, no long-winded technical explanations are needed.

Drill Sergeant guy is very right about the boxer's jab. Anybody who's sparred with even a semi-decent amateur or professional boxer will know that some untrained or semi-trained man or woman is not going to slip a boxer's jab so easily, and outpunch him. They're not going to beat him at his own game. And the boxer doesn't have to be anywhere near a Floyd Mayweather Jr. level. I guarantee the first time the vast majority of black belt-level martial artists (of ANY system) spar a decent boxer of any level is going to be a shock.

Jim

[twinboysdad]

End Fight in 3 Seconds

I REALLY like this video. What he says is very true. There is a world of difference between FIGHTING and SELF-DEFENSE, and a difference between self-defense and self-OFFENSE.

I strongly recommend listening to the entire video. The gems of wisdom he imparts in the latter part of the video are 100% true, and are totally misunderstood by probably 98% of the people who post online comments and criticisms of various martial arts.

https://youtu.be/y0cW0MgLp1s?si=P0TgyQvxW235LgEg

Jim

Outstanding message but oof that delivery…I have a headache from the screaming. He makes some points that few instructors will or do

Yeah, that delivery... I actually like it, though. At least he keeps his audience's attention and gets right to the point he's making.

There are a TON of martial arts-related videos on YouTube where the person talks on and on and on and on, before they actually say anything of value, much less actually show anything. Even if they're only showing one simple, basic movement, they blather on and on nonstop for minutes at a time, about tiny little details that could have simply been shown in half a second. Those types of videos are a great cure for insomnia. Martial arts are not about the intellect, they are experiential; they are about developing instinctual actions and reactions. Those come from visual learning and physical practice. It doesn't come from 30-minute verbal explanations of tiny details of a movement.

One example: Way back when I was a student in Kenpo, I taught myself the spinning hook kick and jump spinning hook kick, and used it effectively in sparring and competitive fighting. That kick was not taught in our school; we had the hook kick, but not the spinning hook kick, which has a much wider range of motion. I learned it from seeing some brown or black belt doing it a few times at another school that I visited only once, replaying his movement in my head, and perfected it on my own. Nowadays, with YouTube, you can simply replay a video of a movement to see all the details of it over and over again. As long as the person whose movement you're modeling after is good at it, no long-winded technical explanations are needed.

Drill Sergeant guy is very right about the boxer's jab. Anybody who's sparred with even a semi-decent amateur or professional boxer will know that some untrained or semi-trained man or woman is not going to slip a boxer's jab so easily, and outpunch him. They're not going to beat him at his own game. And the boxer doesn't have to be anywhere near a Floyd Mayweather Jr. level. I guarantee the first time the vast majority of black belt-level martial artists (of ANY system) spar a decent boxer of any level is going to be a shock.

Jim

I saw a clip where early Jon Jones said a lot of the stuff he did/tried was something he saw on Youtibe and just went with. I personally find that a great quality, to see and replicate. I have it to a degree, my son who wrestles does not. He is risk averse and I am a risk taker. I will say I also heard a trainer named Paul Sharp say it wasn’t what you practiced most, but what you practiced last that you often revert to. My son hit a lat whip and two consecutive underhook inside trips- things he’s never pulled off in matches. They spent 2 days on both the week of the last tournament!

[James Y]

End Fight in 3 Seconds

I REALLY like this video. What he says is very true. There is a world of difference between FIGHTING and SELF-DEFENSE, and a difference between self-defense and self-OFFENSE.

I strongly recommend listening to the entire video. The gems of wisdom he imparts in the latter part of the video are 100% true, and are totally misunderstood by probably 98% of the people who post online comments and criticisms of various martial arts.

https://youtu.be/y0cW0MgLp1s?si=P0TgyQvxW235LgEg

Jim

Outstanding message but oof that delivery…I have a headache from the screaming. He makes some points that few instructors will or do

Yeah, that delivery... I actually like it, though. At least he keeps his audience's attention and gets right to the point he's making.

There are a TON of martial arts-related videos on YouTube where the person talks on and on and on and on, before they actually say anything of value, much less actually show anything. Even if they're only showing one simple, basic movement, they blather on and on nonstop for minutes at a time, about tiny little details that could have simply been shown in half a second. Those types of videos are a great cure for insomnia. Martial arts are not about the intellect, they are experiential; they are about developing instinctual actions and reactions. Those come from visual learning and physical practice. It doesn't come from 30-minute verbal explanations of tiny details of a movement.

One example: Way back when I was a student in Kenpo, I taught myself the spinning hook kick and jump spinning hook kick, and used it effectively in sparring and competitive fighting. That kick was not taught in our school; we had the hook kick, but not the spinning hook kick, which has a much wider range of motion. I learned it from seeing some brown or black belt doing it a few times at another school that I visited only once, replaying his movement in my head, and perfected it on my own. Nowadays, with YouTube, you can simply replay a video of a movement to see all the details of it over and over again. As long as the person whose movement you're modeling after is good at it, no long-winded technical explanations are needed.

Drill Sergeant guy is very right about the boxer's jab. Anybody who's sparred with even a semi-decent amateur or professional boxer will know that some untrained or semi-trained man or woman is not going to slip a boxer's jab so easily, and outpunch him. They're not going to beat him at his own game. And the boxer doesn't have to be anywhere near a Floyd Mayweather Jr. level. I guarantee the first time the vast majority of black belt-level martial artists (of ANY system) spar a decent boxer of any level is going to be a shock.

Jim

I saw a clip where early Jon Jones said a lot of the stuff he did/tried was something he saw on Youtibe and just went with. I personally find that a great quality, to see and replicate. I have it to a degree, my son who wrestles does not. He is risk averse and I am a risk taker. I will say I also heard a trainer named Paul Sharp say it wasn’t what you practiced most, but what you practiced last that you often revert to. My son hit a lat whip and two consecutive underhook inside trips- things he’s never pulled off in matches. They spent 2 days on both the week of the last tournament!

Thanks for sharing, twinboysdad.

Yes, I can believe when Jon Jones says that. Of course, he was already an excellent Greco-Roman wrestler. I would say that, in the vast majority of people who can replicate skills, without being formally taught, through observation and memorization, they already have a solid foundation. I'm sure that you have that, too.

The most outstanding case of mastering a skillset through pure memorization and replication through self-practice, that I'm aware of, was a Korean Tae Kwon Do master named Hwang Jang-Lee. As a child in Korea during the 1950s, he used to hide and spy on a group of men practicing TKD in a field, because his parents forbade him to join the group. Then he would go off by himself in the mountains to practice what he saw the men practicing. He did this for years, and used an old pair of his father's pajamas for a gi/dobok. In his late teens, a friend lent him a uniform and a belt so he could enter a large group testing for black belt. Hwang not only passed the test, but he knocked out all of his sparring opponents.

Later, Hwang went into the South Korean military and became a member of the notorious Korean Tiger Division that served in the Vietnam War. There, he killed a South Vietnamese knife fighter who challenged him to a fight with a single kick to the temple. He also kicked a North Vietnamese soldier who infiltrated a base and was about to shoot him in the back at close range. He dispatched the man by kicking him in the throat. The next day, that soldier was taken in front of a firing squad.

Hwang figured out his own unique way of doing TKD, and was known as one of the world's most dangerous kickers. He didn't believe in stretching exercises; he only loosened up by rolling his hips and legs, and by kicking air. He figured out how to generate power by making circular motions from his legs to his core, and in his major joints, even for linear movements. Any striking art uses circles to generate power, but Hwang figured this out on his own. He practiced kicking at imaginary targets that he pictured in his mind as dots that disappeared quickly, which developed his speed and accuracy. He did not believe in bag work, feeling that it developed a habit of pushing, instead of developing explosive force. This was back BEFORE Tae Kwon Do was watered down and altered to become an Olympic sport, and was still trained as a combative martial art closer to its actual roots in Shotokan Karate.

At 79 years old today, Hwang is still healthy and strong, and teaches in Korea. He remains a highly respected, high-ranking TKD master, and he was 100% self-taught.

Hwang also acted in many martial arts films of the '70s and '80s in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and South Korea. He is most well-known in the West as playing the arch-villain in the two films that catapulted Jackie Chan into superstardom: Snake in the Eagle's Shadow and Drunken Master (both from 1978).

Here is a brief clip of Hwang Jang-Lee as the villain in the Hong Kong movie, Kid From Kwangtung (1982).

https://youtu.be/XS_tRSnAdRM?si=jkRwgQqXYFy9nxE7

Jim

[James Y]

Brush or Roller?!

This is THE biggest point that most martial arts people seem unable to grasp. Self-defense and fighting are two very different things. There is WAY more to SD than one's fighting ability. Fighting is a contest, whether in competition or in a testosterone-fueled street fight. SD is to preserve life and limb of self, and/or others that you are responsible for protecting. Big difference.

https://youtu.be/O-fH-hNpTtk?si=aIlQMSGg6e72WfiV

Jim

[James Y]

Real Knife, No BS

https://youtu.be/x2PEb1vFYiQ?si=1K0iIizCf3JuxakW

Jim

[Naperville]

I do not think he ever studied Largo Mano.

I drilled on all of the moves he's knocking and many more while studying the styles of GM Leo Giron's Bahala Na in Stockton under GM Tony Somera. I dabbled in many martial arts, but this and a couple of other arts taught me the techniques of Largo Mano.

Self defense, preservation, and "to win"...are different things, but they are all possible with Largo Mano. You stay outside, defang the snake, and hopefully walk away.

THE FOLLOWING ARE OKAY FOR THE BASIC CONCEPTS. You need the training to pull it off.

This is my instructor GM Tony Somera(dec.) of Bahala Na
https://youtu.be/mJAhw-2ThJo

LARGO MANO Concepts
https://youtu.be/wbBdoh0TjT8

[James Y]

I do not think he ever studied Largo Mano.

I drilled on all of the moves he's knocking and many more while studying the styles of GM Leo Giron's Bahala Na in Stockton under GM Tony Somera. I dabbled in many martial arts, but this and a couple of other arts taught me the techniques of Largo Mano.

Self defense, preservation, and "to win"...are different things, but they are all possible with Largo Mano. You stay outside, defang the snake, and hopefully walk away.

THE FOLLOWING ARE OKAY FOR THE BASIC CONCEPTS. You need the training to pull it off.

This is my instructor GM Tony Somera(dec.) of Bahala Na
https://youtu.be/mJAhw-2ThJo

LARGO MANO Concepts
https://youtu.be/wbBdoh0TjT8

Hi, Naperville. Thanks for posting.

David James's (the teacher in the video) instructor was Florendo M. Visitacion, AKA "Professor Vee," whose system was not a "pure" style, but looks to have been a hybrid style he formulated from several martial arts, including FMA, JMA (Japanese martial arts), CMA (Chinese martial arts), etc. I remember reading a bit about him in one of the New York-based martial arts magazines (probably Official Karate magazine) back in the late '70s or early '80s.

I know it sounds like he's knocking FMA, but having watched a bunch of his videos, I don't really think he's knocking FMA or its methods. He IS knocking videos that teach such methods as practical street self-defense for the "average Joe." He has said that WHATEVER martial art one does, to be able to apply it in a real street situation as it is stylistically practiced, one has to have had a ton of training to a high level of skill. He is knocking those individuals who recommend using those same skills to the average man or woman who needs to learn practical SD, but who hasn't had (or doesn't have) the time, the training, the mindset, or the talent to achieve expert level in a particular martial art. He has said he knows hardcore individuals of many arts who could pull off their skills on the street, but that your average non-martial artist who needs to learn SD, or the typical casual/part-time martial arts student, would not be able to pull off those same skills. In that context, I agree with him.

TBH, I would say the same about any of the arts I've studied. To actually apply any of them in a real SD situation as practiced as a "pure" art takes a high level of training, skill, experience, and confidence.

For one example: If someone asked me to teach them street SD (I don't teach anymore, but let's suppose here), I wouldn't just tell them to learn Choy Lee Fut, or Tanglangquan (Praying Mantis style), or Kenpo Karate, or Judo, or Shito-ryu Karate, or kickboxing, or any of the other arts I've studied. Because if they're only wanting to learn SD, they don't have years to devote to training to the levels of skill and conditioning necessary to make those martial arts work as natural actions and reactions, as a style, under the pressure of a real situation. They need something that's simple and effective that can be learned quickly. He's basically saying that "the professionals/experts with LOTS AND LOTS of training under their belts can pull it off, but can YOU?" Not YOU personally, Naperville, but a collective "YOU."

I've seen him say that in various ways, in different videos of his (maybe even in one I've already posted here), but he addresses that in this video, from around 8:00. He doesn't specifically mention FMA in that last part, but what he's saying here applies to any martial ART:

https://youtu.be/bX3SNMuN4ZQ?si=UWvauBVRSEmdmCRf

Jim

[Naperville]

Little more thinking. Let me rephrase what I said.

I'm not knocking his statements on some of the moves, because as you said they require a ton of timing and training. It has been a long time since I have done that training and while I know it, it may or may not come in handy. You of course know, you use what presents itself if you can react quickly enough.

From the get go, I will 100% be staying way outside hopefully beyond blade range, using Largo Mano skills(to target hands, wrists and forearms), and maybe some of what I've learned (after passing the target if I feel lucky) along with targeting just above the knee (using Michael Janich's skill set, if I can get there...but you've got to be in close to do that and that is where the danger lay). I will allow the opponent to close the gap. I will probably allow the opponent to strike many times drawing them out, opening them up to make a mistake.

Let's face it, it is all very dangerous and anyone who has sparred knows this. Knives cut so easily. All that it takes is a nick and the clock starts. YOU ARE NOW BLEEDING OUT.

The way that a knife is held in still photos is not how this all works. The wrist rotates, and the edge can cut in a myriad of thrusts, draws, and directions.

My goal would be to make the opponent reach, extend out a target where Largo Mano can be employed. If he/she comes barreling in - all bets are off...get a hold of the weapon arm ASAP, and try to pin them against something (table, bar, wall, ground).

[Naperville]

I have to say, many think that using a knife for self defense is easy. This is a red flag, a total misnomer.

Literally hundreds if not thousands of hours must be spent in edge and tip awareness and training before becoming proficient at using a knife for anything other than cutting a tomato in one's kitchen. Then it is a constant worry with live blades.

Most escrima/arnis/kalis they do not spend a lot of time on edge and tip training. They are not bladed arts per se. A lot of practitioners will use rattan(as a mock tool/weapon) and let it go at that. Anyone worth their salt, AKA "advanced students" do practice edge and tip discipline, and it must be trained on constantly.

YES, everyone that I know over the age of 10 uses knives, but the edge cuts everyone holding a knife, and the tip has a way of hanging up on clothes and body parts when you move quickly. It is something you have to learn through practice.

I almost put a knife completely through my left hand, and I certainly thought that I knew what I was doing and had hundreds of hours of training. Just let your mind wander for one millisecond with a live blade in one of your hands and the next thing you know, you will be bleeding.

If using a pipe, rattan, whatever, and you are practicing an edge weapon strike, think of where the blade is located, and always keep it in mind. You will be surprised that half of the time you are striking targets with the side of the blade, and not the edge. This is where muscle memory comes in and the hundreds of hours of training are needed.

[James Y]

I have to say, many think that using a knife for self defense is easy. This is a red flag, a total misnomer.

Literally hundreds if not thousands of hours must be spent in edge and tip awareness and training before becoming proficient at using a knife for anything other than cutting a tomato in one's kitchen. Then it is a constant worry with live blades.

Most escrima/arnis/kalis they do not spend a lot of time on edge and tip training. They are not bladed arts per se. A lot of practitioners will use rattan(as a mock tool/weapon) and let it go at that. Anyone worth their salt, AKA "advanced students" do practice edge and tip discipline, and it must be trained on constantly.

YES, everyone that I know over the age of 10 uses knives, but the edge cuts everyone holding a knife, and the tip has a way of hanging up on clothes and body parts when you move quickly. It is something you have to learn through practice.

I almost put a knife completely through my left hand, and I certainly thought that I knew what I was doing and had hundreds of hours of training. Just let your mind wander for one millisecond with a live blade in one of your hands and the next thing you know, you will be bleeding.

If using a pipe, rattan, whatever, and you are practicing an edge weapon strike, think of where the blade is located, and always keep it in mind. You will be surprised that half of the time you are striking targets with the side of the blade, and not the edge. This is where muscle memory comes in and the hundreds of hours of training are needed.

Thanks for your posts, Naperville.

Yes, I totally agree that knife work is not as easy as many people believe it to be.

Now, do people without any specific knife combat training "unalive" other people with knives? All the time. But it's just like many people have thrown fatal one-punch KOs, where the other person falls and their head hits the pavement. That doesn't necessarily make the man who threw the punch a great puncher or a good boxer; it means he happened to land it just right (or just wrong, depending on the situation). The goal of developing a skill is to hopefully develop the ability to do so with some consistency, at a higher level.

I never did study a knife-oriented martial art. And the only FMA I dabbled in was a Modern Arnis seminar taught over a weekend by Remy Presas, back in 1982. And that was mostly rattan stick work, and a bit of empty hands.

Even then, on occasion I've cut myself using my knives for mundane tasks like cooking, or even simply fidgeting around, etc.

I try to treat my knives like exotic pets. Meaning, they can be considered useful companions, but they always carry that element of danger. If you're not paying attention, they can and will bite you.

Jim

[James Y]

"My Story"

I found his story to be inspirational. There is very little martial arts content discussed in this video, but he tells about his life's journey, how he got to where he's at, and why he is the way he is.

https://youtu.be/VWGui1baKQE?si=N1G3bHqgFYx3RrfJ

Jim

[James Y]

Knife at Your Face

As anyone can see, I've been posting a lot of his videos lately, because he's put a TON of videos out, and he has really good information. At the very least, he gives his viewers a lot to consider.

https://youtu.be/50mqLL-KvjY?si=987XH9YSEnEAqkQi

Jim

[James Y]

Knife Defense Won't Work Against a Skilled Attacker

https://youtu.be/NK01YjCDRyQ?si=LKp3Svtxam4RmmXX

Jim

[Naperville]

"My Story"

I found his story to be inspirational. There is very little martial arts content discussed in this video, but he tells about his life's journey, how he got to where he's at, and why he is the way he is.

https://youtu.be/VWGui1baKQE?si=N1G3bHqgFYx3RrfJ

Jim

This martial artist is a study in perseverance, NOT LUCK, but perseverance. Interesting life story and my life is not as interesting.

[James Y]

"My Story"

I found his story to be inspirational. There is very little martial arts content discussed in this video, but he tells about his life's journey, how he got to where he's at, and why he is the way he is.

https://youtu.be/VWGui1baKQE?si=N1G3bHqgFYx3RrfJ

Jim

This martial artist is a study in perseverance, NOT LUCK, but perseverance. Interesting life story and my life is not as interesting.

His life, his belief in himself, and yes, his perseverance, are simply astounding.

Jim