I don't care for Italian knife and pistol designs

[Doc Dan]

I am probably the odd man out on this, but I really find Italian designs to be lacking and often not well thought out when it comes to knives and pistols. The only Italian knives I like are Spyderco designs and not Italian designs. My sense of style and practicality just do not cotton to their ideas. Take Lion Steel's knives. I find them unpleasing to the eye. The Beretta pistols are a marvel of inefficiency. The grip is too fat, the trigger reach is too long, they look funny. I was in the Army when the pistol trials were going on and the much more aesthetically pleasing S&W and Sig pistols actually did better than the Beretta. Beretta was awarded the contract without a trial and when caught red-handed, there was a pistol trial and Beretta was awarded the contract because they were already awarded the contract. The pistol is ungainly, not well balanced, and over large. (Franchi shotguns are great but they are not pistols).

I know the Italians make fine pistols and knives, they just look funky to me.

[Cambertree]

I never liked the Beretta 92 either - it has some strange illogical design features.

So did the story ever come out about how they got the US Army contract, Doc?

I remember reading a book about the way Glock would get US police department contracts - basically laying it on with the comped weekends away for the buyers, wining and dining and strip clubs etc.

The 85 is an ok kind of .22, but I wouldn’t say it’s a great pistol. I’ve never used the 70/71 series, but I’ve been curious about them.

Can’t really say about the Lionsteel knives as I only have a Roundhead Barlow and that’s quite nice, but obviously a US design. It’s too thick in the blade but that’s also down to the designer.

[The Deacon]

Interesting. I have relatively small hands for a man and my fingers aren't terribly long, but I have no problem with the grip size or trigger reach on the Beretta 92. As for "look funny", beauty is in the eye of the beholder and guns that look good often don't work well, the P08 Luger being the ultimate example of that. 100+ years later it's still the sexiest looking handgun ever, but it never was very reliable. Lots of folks say the PX4 Storm is ugly, I find it attractive and, more importantly, my full size .45ACP Storm feels great in my hand and is decently accurate, is lighter yet also more comfortable to shoot, holds more rounds than a 1911, and is safe to carry without having a manual safety to disengage. My only regret, at the moment, is that I procrastinated too long about getting another one in 9mm and they've become very hard to find.

As for Italian knives, while American companies make better autos in terms of quality and practicality, I'll admit to thinking Italian switchblades are among the best looking knives ever made. :)

[MichaelScott]

My uncle gave me what was alleged to be a real Italian the switchblade, although I do have my doubts about that part. He kept it on the shelf with all of his other doodads and souvenirs but I took it out as a teenager and used it. It fell apart within a month. Sexy looking knife though

[James Y]

Kind of OT for this thread, but...

When I was in 8th grade, a friend sold me an Italian-style switchblade with a 3” blade for $5. He said his family got it in Mexico. I seriously doubt it was actually Italian-made; most likely it was made in Mexico. The blade was stamped “rizzuto estileto Milano” and “stainless.” The blade steel was some kind of really cheap, soft stainless. It was pointy but wouldn’t take a good edge. It had a swing guard. The opening mechanism worked, but the point stuck out of the handle when closed.

I used to carry it to school in my RF pocket, along with a medium stockman pocketknife for the ‘real’ pocketknife chores in my LF pocket. I thought I was cool carrying a switchblade around because it was illegal, and secretly thought of myself as “The Man Who Carries A Switchblade”. Until one day while sitting in class, I noticed a prickly feeling around my private area. I realized that the switchblade had partially opened in my pocket, and the prickly feeling was the tip of the blade lightly poking me. With a wave of fear, I removed it from my RF pocket and stuck it in my right rear pocket. Back home, I tossed it in a drawer and never carried it again.

Back on topic, a friend of mine from England was visiting, and we went to a shooting range. I chose a Glock 40, and he said he just HAD TO use a Beretta. Nothing else would do for him. While we were shooting his gun jammed. He got another one, which also later jammed. The Glock I was using did not. My friend was not too happy with the Berettas afterwards. I don’t know if that reflects open the company’s product or if it was user error on his part, but just thought I’d share that.

Jim

[wrdwrght]

I think SIG should have won that first competition, based on performance alone. But then I do love my several P22x.

Isn’t it odd that the US military decided cost should win out over place of manufacture. That round should have been won by an American manufacturer, which SIG then wasn’t. The idea of farming out a nation’s defense is close on treason, but then the US has been farming stuff out since free trade became a thing. But, I do go on.

I did have a Beretta Nano and wanted to love it, but it was ammo-picky, which no SD gun should ever be. But its spare design appealed.

While I am an unapologetic Italophile, I can’t say the same for Italian knife-design. Too much where there should be much less.

I’ll leave it at that and say Spyderco does it right, so Italian knives are not something I ponder, EXCEPT for the looming threat of spinning pivots on Maniago-made Urbans!

Sal?!

[TomAiello]

I have a Fox Livri that I'm extremely fond of. I find a lot of the new Italian designs too 'busy' but the slip joints from Fox, Mercury and MKM (which I believe includes both of those companies) have been excellent for me.

[Ankerson]

They never should have changed from the 1911 .45 ACP in the 1st place..

Was the whole NATO thing, everyone else was using the 9mm so.....

But I will say again there was really no need for the US to change.

Not all Countries are using 5.56mm rifles so I don't get why handguns were such and issue... And the handgun isn't the primary weapon in battle so..... It really was a pointless change...

If anything changed we should have gone back to using the 7.62 NATO for the battle riles......

Now that would have been a worthwhile change.

[Doc Dan]

A lot of people do not realize their hands are not fitting the Beretta pistols well. I find any of the knives to be unattractive and/or uncomfortable to use.

[mikey177]

I too find some Italian knife designs cluttered with overly elaborate details, whether these be unnecessary milling or an obsession with glass breakers. I am also hard-pressed to find Lionsteel folders with thin blade stock. That said, there are some Italian knives that I like, such as the Bastinelli R.E.D. folder, or the Lionsteel M4 and M5 fixed blades.

[Halfneck]

Carried a M9 (Beretta 92) as an Army Medic. I wear large to extra-large gloves so I had no issue with handling the M9. As it was the Clinton years though funding was limited so I only got to qualify with it once at a hastily put together range session. Funny story - the Doctor that did one of my 1st cancer surgeries ended up near me on the firing line when we qualified with the M9. She was all of 5'1" tall. I looked over to see her torquing the pistol around towards me trying to disengage the slide release. I was like "Uhh Ma'am try not to shoot me and cause yourself any more work". She straightened it out with a curse, muttering something about how she hated the M9. Personally I liked the M9 and shot it decent enough - got Expert that day at the range. But it was not a good handgun for people with smaller hands. It also has a horribly long DA trigger pull. Between the M9 and the Sig P226 it competed against, I prefer the Sig. Better trigger, and feels better in-hand.

As for Italian knives - the classic stiletto switchblade is iconic. I've seen some custom Pattadas with horn handles that are beautiful. On newer Italian knives the Lionsteel Gitano is on my want list.

[TomAiello]

I wasn't aware of the Gitano. That's a nice, modern take on a classic. I might have to pick one up, and I'll definitely blame you if my wife objects. :)

I have medium-small hands for a guy, and I shoot the M9 pretty well. I have no real complaints, but it was really the first handgun I ever spent any time with. Also the first one I ever owned (well, it was a Beretta 92FS, but same thing). I'll admit that I prefer the 1911 to the M9 at this point, but I prefer a lot of other handguns to either of them.

I have a Benelli M4 that drives me crazy though. Talk about overly complex.

[Evil D]

Like Paul I too have a soft spot for Italian stilettos, I wish they were made in more modern steels and better quality but they're a timeless design.

I'm kinda torn on guns. For example I actually like how a Glock looks but it comes from liking form following function so I wouldn't even think to compare the aesthetics of a G19 to a nice custom 1911 because they're beautiful in different ways. I don't mind Berettas but I'd take a Sig P226 or P320 over one any day. I rather like my M&P 2.0C too.

[bearrowland]

Exactly.

They never should have changed from the 1911 .45 ACP in the 1st place..

Was the whole NATO thing, everyone else was using the 9mm so.....

But I will say again there was really no need for the US to change.

Not all Countries are using 5.56mm rifles so I don't get why handguns were such and issue... And the handgun isn't the primary weapon in battle so..... It really was a pointless change...

If anything changed we should have gone back to using the 7.62 NATO for the battle riles......

Now that would have been a worthwhile change.

[cabfrank]

The only Italian knife I've had was an Extrema Ratio. Mine was very good quality, and fit/finish, but overbuilt for a folder, in my opinion. As far as pistols, I much prefer Austrian to Italian, given my experience with one brand from each country.

[Ankerson]

Like Paul I too have a soft spot for Italian stilettos, I wish they were made in more modern steels and better quality but they're a timeless design.

I'm kinda torn on guns. For example I actually like how a Glock looks but it comes from liking form following function so I wouldn't even think to compare the aesthetics of a G19 to a nice custom 1911 because they're beautiful in different ways. I don't mind Berettas but I'd take a Sig P226 or P320 over one any day. I rather like my M&P 2.0C too.

I think it's a personal thing.

If I ever do get another handgun it will be another 1911, I have shot others, but the 1911 is really good for me.

I have shot 1911's in 38 Super, 9mm up to 10mm and of course .45 ACP. I actually owned 3x 1911's over the years, all .45 ACP...

The 1911 10mm Delta Élite was a blast to shoot... Had a lot of fun with that one...

[Doc Dan]

The 1911, Hi Power, HK, Sig Sauer, S&W, Glock, and Ruger are all fine looking pistols. They works and don’t break slides. The Italian pistols, not so much. Even the Egyptian contract Berettas are clunky. It is odd, to, because Berretta, Franchi, and Benelli make such fine shotguns.