Helping a friend

[Tucson Tom]

I dropped over to a friends house last night and soon after I came through the door, he hit me with the question: "Should I get maxamet or vg10?". My snap answer was VG10 -- but this was just the start of quite a discussion.

He is looking for a small knife and is considering the Para 3 and the dragonfly. I encouraged him to consider the Native 5 also. He owns one Spyderco, a Persistence that I gave him and treasures it. I told him that to my mind the PM2 is not that much bigger than the Para 3, and once they are in your pocket you don't really notice that one is longer.

Happily he is not in any way hung up on appearance, and I have been beating on him with the saying, "you get what you pay for", so just finding the cheapest thing that will sort of do is not what is going on.

We talked at length about knife steels. I told him that to my mind there are 3 categories. Plain carbon steels like 1095, tool steels like Rex-45 and Maxamet, and stainless steels. Nobody uses plain carbon steels for high end folders these days, so it boils down to tool steels versus stainless, as long as you are willing to paint with this broad brush. My recommendation was a well rounded steel, and VG10 certainly qualifies. Maxamet is great stuff, but it pushes one attribute to the limit without balancing others. I took some time to praise S30V as a well rounded steel -- as long as you get it from Spyderco! I was disappointed in S30V in the past, but that was in knives from other makers. I think a lot of the reason people turn up their nose at S30V is either this, or else they just "have to have" the latest hot thing.

I also emphasized "well balanced" and "easy to sharpen" over what seems to many people to be the end all and be all of steels, namely edge holding.

Then we drifted away from steels for a while and talked about knife design. I told him you simply can't tell by looking even at actual size pictures in a catalog. You can't really tell even by handling a knife for a short time at a store or visiting a friend. So I offered to loan him several knives of mine to carry for a few days. I have picked out my Native 5 with FRN and Maxamet, my Cruwear Para 3, and a 52100 PM2. (Maybe 52100 is the only "simple carbon" steel being used in folders?). I was carrying my "rosewood" Rex45 Shaman, but that is bigger than he wants. I also have my Caly 3 in the HAP40 sprint laid out for him to examine -- if he falls in love with it, I may offer to sell it to him at a discount since I rarely carry it.

Lock type is neither here nor there. I have grown to be lock type neutral, or ambivalent (or maybe omnivorous, or perhaps agnostic). Any good lock type from Spyderco will make him happy, including a back-lock.

Finally, we were looking online at some things. I had told him about the steel articles Larrin has been writing (which are right up his alley, since he likes to geek out on stuff like this) and in fact we tripped over one of Larrins articles doing a search on SPY27. I like to think SPY27 will be a well balanced steel like S30V, Cruwear, and VG10. For me, easy sharpenability is really important.

My final recommendation for him was to pick up either the Para 3 in SPY27 (probably my top recommendation) or the Native 5 in SPY27 with FRN. He is obsessing over weight, but I tell him that is only part of the story about how a knife feels in the pocket. Ultimately he should first pick the model that feels best in hand and pocket, then get it in S30V or SPY27 according to availability and how much of a rush he is in.

[sal]

Hi Tom,

You are a good friend.

sal

[JuPaul]

It's awesome that your friend was so interested in researching and learning about the options for his next knife. I think you made some great recommendations and gave really good advice. When I've gifted knives, I've essentially had the same considerations in mind. The para3 lw is a great model, and I seriously doubt that spy27 will disappoint, especially if your friend is used to the 8cr on his Persistence. I can't wait for mine!

[The Meat man]

That's really cool Tom. :cool:

[Sharp Guy]

That is cool! I've been going through something similar with a friend from the shooting community. So far he's bought a Kapara and Sage 5 LW. Now he wants something a little bigger with contoured handle. So he's seriously considering a Shaman. I think I finally have him convinced that he doesn't need REX 45 or Cruwear, Etc. S30V is ideal for what he wants to use it for

[Tucson Tom]

It looks like it will be the Para 3 LW for him. And in BD1N -- he would rather save the money compared to the SPY27.

I think it will serve him well.

It is interesting and fun seeing all of this through another persons mind.

He likes the thumb ramp on the Para 3 better than the straight back of the Native.

[Doc Dan]

That is good of you to give him sound advice. Some would have sold him on S110v and a giant knife.

[Tucson Tom]

That is good of you to give him sound advice. Some would have sold him on S110v and a giant knife.

I expected this post to generate more discussion and different points of view.
I figured in particular that someone would jump up right away and object,

"Tell him to get VG10 and not Maxamet? What are you thinking!!!!"

Honestly it is all about tradeoffs. And price is one that sometimes gets overlooked.

A short list might be:

Availability (try to run out and buy a Rex45 PM2 right now)
Cost (always a factor)
Edge holding (the only thing some people seem to care about)
Corrosion resistance (very good for those that aren't hard core knife fiends)
Ease of sharpening (something I value more all of the time)
Weight
Size (can include legal restrictions)
Color, looks, fashion.
Material (G10 versus FRx)
.... along with toughness and many other factors.

He does want to pick up a Manix or PM2 someday, and that will be a whole different decision.

[The Meat man]

I expected this post to generate more discussion and different points of view.
I figured in particular that someone would jump up right away and object,

"Tell him to get VG10 and not Maxamet? What are you thinking!!!!"...

The most important thing right now is to get him hooked. He can become a steel junkie later. :p :)

[BobABQ]

I have both VG-10 and S30v from Spyderco and I think your view is spot on. They are easy to maintain, have good wear resistance and not overly expensive. Both are good all around steels and difficult to go wrong with!

[Doc Dan]

That is good of you to give him sound advice. Some would have sold him on S110v and a giant knife.

I expected this post to generate more discussion and different points of view.
I figured in particular that someone would jump up right away and object,

"Tell him to get VG10 and not Maxamet? What are you thinking!!!!"

Honestly it is all about tradeoffs. And price is one that sometimes gets overlooked.

A short list might be:

Availability (try to run out and buy a Rex45 PM2 right now)
Cost (always a factor)
Edge holding (the only thing some people seem to care about)
Corrosion resistance (very good for those that aren't hard core knife fiends)
Ease of sharpening (something I value more all of the time)
Weight
Size (can include legal restrictions)
Color, looks, fashion.
Material (G10 versus FRx)
.... along with toughness and many other factors.

He does want to pick up a Manix or PM2 someday, and that will be a whole different decision.

Unless I know someone is a steel junkie or has experience with such steels, I ever recommend something like Maxamet, S110v, or other such steels. I had a conversation on this very issue a few years ago with Surfingringo and we are of the same mind. While I have those types of steels I prefer something better balanced and not as difficult to sharpen. Most people are not going to be happy with such steels. Bragging about them is one thing, living with the hassle is another. As you said, price is important, too.