Knife too thin

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SalomonA
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby SalomonA » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:25 pm

I generally love using good thin blades more than thicker ones, because they just function much better for what I use them for. I would ask for my pocket favorites, like the smock, and the Pm2 to come 1-1.5mm thinner, but I know comp lock knives have to have blades of certain thicknesses, as per Sal. I would, however, like to see thin back locks, and friction folders in stock thinner than the delica as well. An ideal one for me would probably be a UKPK Wharncliffe blade with a 1.25mm stock of steel other than s30v or vg-10.

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JRinFL
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby JRinFL » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:50 pm

I’ve broken several utility knife blades over the years and a paring knife once. The paring knife was a cheap freebie that was likely poorly heat treated because it never subjected to heavy use.

While I feel that most knives are anywhere from moderately to grossly overbuilt, I think it might be a worse idea to push too far to the underbuilt side. I have seen tons of broken blades on traditional folders. It’s pretty common, despite most using a very tough carbon steels in their blades. I think Sal and crew try to maintain a level of sanity in the modern market, however the realities of business probably mean a thicker blade is a better bet versus the endless warranty and bad press issues.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder: Friends call me Jim. As do my enemies.

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Naperville
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby Naperville » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:00 pm

I have broken and chipped utility blades many times.

I have never broken or chipped any other knife that I can recall, although many moons ago I was not paying that much attention to edge performance. I cannot remember ever tossing out a knife because I damaged it.

I do not use knives as screw drivers, for prying, or batonning.
Spyderco Collection: Military (S110V), Bob Lum Darn Dao(CPM-154), Yojimbo 2 (1 in S30V & 2 in 20CV), Sustain(20CV), Native 5(Maxamet), Jumpmaster 2(H1), Province(4V). SHORT LIST: CF Shaman(S90V), Lum Tanto, Native Chief(?), Street Beat and Street Bowie(4V at 60+ HRC).

Sumdumguy
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby Sumdumguy » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:05 pm

Had a chance to handle the Raffir Noble Chap and a Chap LW, side by side. The LW's handle felt super thin(too thin). Whereas the Raffir felt fantastic. They looked like they were the same size, but the Raffir had to be slightly thicker.

I'm actually thinking of picking up the Raffir version, it was very nice and the scales on this one looked fantastic.

Notsurewhy
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby Notsurewhy » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:29 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:05 pm
Had a chance to handle the Raffir Noble Chap and a Chap LW, side by side. The LW's handle felt super thin(too thin). Whereas the Raffir felt fantastic. They looked like they were the same size, but the Raffir had to be slightly thicker.

I'm actually thinking of picking up the Raffir version, it was very nice and the scales on this one looked fantastic.
The raffir chap doesn't get enough love. It's beautiful. I think it's likely because most folks buy online so they don't get to see it in person. Pictures don't really do it justice.

speedseeker
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby speedseeker » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:13 am

SalomonA wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:25 pm
and the Pm2 to come 1-1.5mm thinner, but I know comp lock knives have to have blades of certain thicknesses, as per Sal.
How about that. I've always wished for a thinner blade stock on the PM2...and now the Para 3 as well...but never really understood this limitation. Makes sense though. I, like you, appreciate a thinner blade for the things I do...it's why I really love the Wharnie version of the Delica. The thin blade combined with that acute tip just really works well for my needs. I especially enjoy being able to use a really good pinch grip. I just mentioned yesterday on FB that if the Para 3 LW had a thinner blade stock it could kick the Delica Wharnie out of my pocket. Never even thought about how the lock system might depend on an adequate width blade for safe operation. Thanks for the education.

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Evil D
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby Evil D » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:20 am

SalomonA wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:25 pm
I know comp lock knives have to have blades of certain thicknesses, as per Sal.

The Ouroboros is listed as being 2.5mm thick and it uses a compression lock. It really seems thinner than that to me. Either way a 2.5mm Para 2 seems very doable per lock travel needs.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Sumdumguy
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby Sumdumguy » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:30 am

Notsurewhy wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:29 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:05 pm
Had a chance to handle the Raffir Noble Chap and a Chap LW, side by side. The LW's handle felt super thin(too thin). Whereas the Raffir felt fantastic. They looked like they were the same size, but the Raffir had to be slightly thicker.

I'm actually thinking of picking up the Raffir version, it was very nice and the scales on this one looked fantastic.
The raffir chap doesn't get enough love. It's beautiful. I think it's likely because most folks buy online so they don't get to see it in person. Pictures don't really do it justice.
It's one you have to buy in person. The pattern can look great or like crap, they are all different.

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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:31 am

I carry an Opinel regularly and it is thinner at both the edge and the spine than any other folder I own. It will slice circles around any Spydie I own and I haven’t broken it yet. Just sayin....
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:33 am

The main reason I do not like the Para3 is that the ergos are off for me. The super thick blade stock is the other reason. That is why i stick with the Delica and Native.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

Mattysc42
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby Mattysc42 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:56 pm

Personally, I don’t notice a difference in use between 2mm and 3mm blades, so long as the blade is wide enough and well sharpened. The native cuts just as well as a chaparral for me 99% of the time.

I think that 3-4mm and a wide blade is the best range for overall use, after using my chaparrals, natives, manix XLs, and shamans extensively. Having cut tens of thousands of feet of cardboard, thousands of industrial pallet straps, and occasionally food with each, the one that works best for extended use is surprisingly the shaman despite the thicker blade stock. The manix XL is a very close second, but the jimping in the handle creates hot spots if used long enough.
BRING ON THE MANIX XL SPRINTS AND EXCLUSIVES! And 10v or K390ify the Golden lineup, please.

Top 5 folders I’ve owned: Serrated Caribbean Leaf, Shaman, Manix XL, ZDP-189/CF Caly 3.5, Native LW.
Top 5 steels I’ve owned: LC200N, K390, CPM S90V, M390, CPM REX45.
Top 3 steels I want more of: M390 class, A11 class (including K390), CPM REX45.

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Wartstein
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby Wartstein » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:24 am

Mattysc42 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:56 pm
Personally, I don’t notice a difference in use between 2mm and 3mm blades, so long as the blade is wide enough and well sharpened. The native cuts just as well as a chaparral for me 99% of the time.

I think that 3-4mm and a wide blade is the best range for overall use, after using my chaparrals, natives, manix XLs, and shamans extensively. Having cut tens of thousands of feet of cardboard, thousands of industrial pallet straps, and occasionally food with each, the one that works best for extended use is surprisingly the shaman despite the thicker blade stock. The manix XL is a very close second, but the jimping in the handle creates hot spots if used long enough.

I am a fan of and advocate for thinner bladestocks, but clearly you use your knives more frequently than I do and thus you have more and valid experience.

May I ask: Do you think the Shaman "works best" partly also cause of its superior ergos? Or the very tall blade and thus still very good slicing geometry despite having rather thick stock?

Or, to put it differently: Do you think a thinner (3mm stock ), but otherwise similar Shaman would work even better for the tasks you encounter?

EDIT: I am NOT actually advocating for a thinner Shaman. It's perfect the way it is for what it is
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

Mattysc42
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby Mattysc42 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:43 am

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:24 am
Mattysc42 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:56 pm
Personally, I don’t notice a difference in use between 2mm and 3mm blades, so long as the blade is wide enough and well sharpened. The native cuts just as well as a chaparral for me 99% of the time.

I think that 3-4mm and a wide blade is the best range for overall use, after using my chaparrals, natives, manix XLs, and shamans extensively. Having cut tens of thousands of feet of cardboard, thousands of industrial pallet straps, and occasionally food with each, the one that works best for extended use is surprisingly the shaman despite the thicker blade stock. The manix XL is a very close second, but the jimping in the handle creates hot spots if used long enough.

I am a fan of and advocate for thinner bladestocks, but clearly you use your knives more frequently than I do and thus you have more and valid experience.

May I ask: Do you think the Shaman "works best" partly also cause of its superior ergos? Or the very tall blade and thus still very good slicing geometry despite having rather thick stock?

Or, to put it differently: Do you think a thinner (3mm stock ), but otherwise similar Shaman would work even better for the tasks you encounter?

EDIT: I am NOT actually advocating for a thinner Shaman. It's perfect the way it is for what it is
The shaman is best imo mostly because of the handle ergos, but the thicker stock also makes for a more comfortable thumb rest when pressing into cuts. The wide blade compensates for most of the downsides of thick stock when slicing.
BRING ON THE MANIX XL SPRINTS AND EXCLUSIVES! And 10v or K390ify the Golden lineup, please.

Top 5 folders I’ve owned: Serrated Caribbean Leaf, Shaman, Manix XL, ZDP-189/CF Caly 3.5, Native LW.
Top 5 steels I’ve owned: LC200N, K390, CPM S90V, M390, CPM REX45.
Top 3 steels I want more of: M390 class, A11 class (including K390), CPM REX45.

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spyderg
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby spyderg » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:27 am

I spent 19 years working in a warehouse. Disposable blades were the only kind given out but few of us used them. They broke and dulled too easily. I tried the heavy duty disposable type, they indeed lasted longer but when they broke they were especially dangerous. I quit using them when a piece became embedded in my safety glasses. Had a few cheap knives that were ok but my Manix2 in Cruwear became my most carried. The blade is just the right thickness to stand up to those dreaded thick-a$$ plastic straps but thin enough to still be slicey.
If you're wielding the sharpest tool in the shed, who's going to say that you aren't...?

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TkoK83Spy
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby TkoK83Spy » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:56 am

spyderg wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:27 am
I spent 19 years working in a warehouse. Disposable blades were the only kind given out but few of us used them. They broke and dulled too easily. I tried the heavy duty disposable type, they indeed lasted longer but when they broke they were especially dangerous. I quit using them when a piece became embedded in my safety glasses. Had a few cheap knives that were ok but my Manix2 in Cruwear became my most carried. The blade is just the right thickness to stand up to those dreaded thick-a$$ plastic straps but thin enough to still be slicey.
I agree with you 100%. Those cheap Stanley box cutters/blades are just that...cheap. I too, in the past have had the blades snap or the tips literally fly off. Around 5 years ago I started using some $25 Kershaw knives and instantly fell in love with using real pocket knives at work. Now evolved to these high quality Spyderco knives, there's no turning back!

It's funny, some of the guys ask me why I would risk damaging such expensive knives when we have box cutters for free at work. I'll pull out whichever Spyderco I have on me, and a box cutter. Put them side by side and ask which would you feel more confident and safe using to cut 6-8 of those plastic straps on each pallet of parts...when there is around 10-20 pallets in each shipment.

I also agree, the Manix is perfect for this kind of work. Manix and Shaman are my go too knives when I know ahead of time that it will be a heavy work day.
19 :spyder:'s in 11 different steels
2 - ZT's - 0460 and 0470
1 - Microtech Ultratech DE OTF

-Rick

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Wartstein
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby Wartstein » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:41 am

Mattysc42 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:43 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:24 am
Mattysc42 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:56 pm
I am a fan of and advocate for thinner bladestocks, but clearly you use your knives more frequently than I do and thus you have more and valid experience.

May I ask: Do you think the Shaman "works best" partly also cause of its superior ergos? Or the very tall blade and thus still very good slicing geometry despite having rather thick stock?

Or, to put it differently: Do you think a thinner (3mm stock ), but otherwise similar Shaman would work even better for the tasks you encounter?

EDIT: I am NOT actually advocating for a thinner Shaman. It's perfect the way it is for what it is
The shaman is best imo mostly because of the handle ergos, but the thicker stock also makes for a more comfortable thumb rest when pressing into cuts. The wide blade compensates for most of the downsides of thick stock when slicing.

Thanks!
I have to admit: A more comfortable thumb rest is undeniable an advantage of thicker blades.
And if weight and compact closed size is not a concern, the Shaman certainly is a perfect all around knife and slicey enough.
I'd just think that the tip could be a bit too robust (which of course also is a plus in certain scenarios!) and not acute enough for being ideal for a few " splinter picker" tasks, but that's about it.
Last edited by Wartstein on Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

Notsurewhy
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Re: Knife too thin

Postby Notsurewhy » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:48 am

Thin blades for all! Boo
Very well, no thin blades for anyone! Boo
Thin blades for some, miniature American flags for others? YAY!


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