Sprints

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Ankerson
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Re: Sprints

Postby Ankerson » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:59 pm

zuludelta wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:56 pm
I think the basic Sprint Run concept is a good idea: produce a limited number of a knife of a particular design/steel combination that would likely not be popular enough to support a full, ongoing production run. It's a sensible way to fill a perceived gap in the market.

It becomes a problem once you get speculators & scalpers coming into play, making the Sprint Run knives extremely difficult to buy & artificially inflating prices on the secondary market. But that is an issue that may very well be outside of Spyderco's control (larger industries have tried and failed to curb scalper & speculator activity).

The proposed solution, to scale up the production of Sprint Runs so that those who want them are more likely to find them at a fair price (or find them at all!) sounds workable, but that presumes that Spyderco will be able to maintain profit margins from the scaled-up production to still keep the Sprint Run commercially viable for the company. There's probably an optimum production number that will allow for this, but that's for Spyderco's accountants to figure out LOL.

Anyway, just my C$.02.

The problem is always in the supply chain someplace.

Always....

Between the maker and the end customers.....

Always....

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Ankerson
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Re: Sprints

Postby Ankerson » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:01 pm

PStone wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:58 pm
Ankerson wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:29 pm
Evil D wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:07 pm
Users will say this is a great idea.

Collectors will cry that it reduces their value.


Well if they could solve the issue of people gaming the system it would go a long way for others to get them in the 1st place.

Limiting them doesn't seem to work either as some people end up with a lot of them (gaming the system) and they end up on EBAY etc.

Limiting to 2 and some still end up with a bunch of them, there is a massive issue there that needs to be taken care of.

It's either at the disturber level or some store level is were the problem is... Some very dishonest people out there.....Some people end up with a lot of them, means less for everyone else at normal pricing..... ;)

So in the end solving that problem would go a long way toward making more people happy.

IMO all Sprints need to be sold though the Spyderco Store....
I like the SFO idea for sprints. When there’s a sprint coming that I want, I spend a lot of time going to various dealer sites and checking if they have them yet. Plus keeping an eye on the forums. And even then I sometimes miss out. Would be pretty sweet for a lot more OpFocus people too.


Would be a lot more honest too in the long run with Spyderco handling it directly...

AwayFromMySpydieHole
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Re: Sprints

Postby AwayFromMySpydieHole » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:02 pm

Ankerson wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:53 pm
AwayFromMySpydieHole wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:44 pm
Ankerson wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:29 pm
Evil D wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:07 pm
Users will say this is a great idea.

Collectors will cry that it reduces their value.


Well if they could solve the issue of people gaming the system it would go a long way for others to get them in the 1st place.

Limiting them doesn't seem to work either as some people end up with a lot of them (gaming the system) and they end up on EBAY etc.

Limiting to 2 and some still end up with a bunch of them, there is a massive issue there that needs to be taken care of.

It's either at the disturber level or some store level is were the problem is... Some very dishonest people out there.....Some people end up with a lot of them, means less for everyone else at normal pricing..... ;)

So in the end solving that problem would go a long way toward making more people happy.

IMO all Sprints need to be sold though the Spyderco Store....
Not necessarily true.

I sometimes end up with 4 or more of a sprint I REALLY love, even though the limit was 1 or 2 per household.


The dealer or distributor has nothing to do with that in my case. I simply buy my allotment and then I go to the forums to get more.

Oh it is, been watching it for a VERY long time…

Not talking about just a few knives here either...


My point is that you can't paint EVERY instance of someone getting multiple knives as shady dealers or distributors. Some people simply buy their allottment and then take to the forums if they want more. There is nothing shady, dishonest, or deceitful happening in those instances.

And I've been watching/buying the sprints for a long time as well. I started buying sprints a decade ago coming up in a month. In fact we talked almost 8 years ago about the CF/s90v paramilitary 2 sprint, because I had a line on some of them just sitting on a brick and mortar store's shelf. :)

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Ankerson
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Re: Sprints

Postby Ankerson » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:06 pm

AwayFromMySpydieHole wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:02 pm
Ankerson wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:53 pm
AwayFromMySpydieHole wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:44 pm
Ankerson wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:29 pm




Well if they could solve the issue of people gaming the system it would go a long way for others to get them in the 1st place.

Limiting them doesn't seem to work either as some people end up with a lot of them (gaming the system) and they end up on EBAY etc.

Limiting to 2 and some still end up with a bunch of them, there is a massive issue there that needs to be taken care of.

It's either at the disturber level or some store level is were the problem is... Some very dishonest people out there.....Some people end up with a lot of them, means less for everyone else at normal pricing..... ;)

So in the end solving that problem would go a long way toward making more people happy.

IMO all Sprints need to be sold though the Spyderco Store....
Not necessarily true.

I sometimes end up with 4 or more of a sprint I REALLY love, even though the limit was 1 or 2 per household.


The dealer or distributor has nothing to do with that in my case. I simply buy my allotment and then I go to the forums to get more.






Oh it is, been watching it for a VERY long time…

Not talking about just a few knives here either...


My point is that you can't paint EVERY instance of someone getting multiple knives as shady dealers or distributors. Some people simply buy their allottment and then take to the forums if they want more. There is nothing shady, dishonest, or deceitful happening in those instances.

And I've been watching/buying the sprints for a long time as well. I started buying sprints a decade ago coming up in a month. In fact we talked almost 8 years ago about the CF/s90v paramilitary 2 sprint, because I had a line on some of them just sitting on a brick and mortar store's shelf. :)


You can when they end up on EBAY almost right away... ;)

Bunches of them by the same sellers having a lot of them....

At the same time nobody else can get them because THEY already have them...

That is a supply chain issue.

That's what I watch....

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Re: Sprints

Postby BornIn1500 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:10 pm

Ankerson wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:29 pm
IMO all Sprints need to be sold though the Spyderco Store....
I don't think that will ever happen, especially after the latest increase in MAP which does nothing but shovel a higher percentage of sales dollars to distributors. I don't think they'll cut out distributor profits on sprints.
Last edited by BornIn1500 on Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Sprints

Postby VooDooChild » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:11 pm

Is the problem flippers and people playing the market? Every sprint run/exclusive is different. I couldnt touch a cruwear micarta shaman with a ten foot pole. But Ive got a straight spine stretch and could probably get another if I wanted.

I think in the modern world we have people making a living off of sitting behind a computer and turning a profit. And when market trends dictate that those people should buy a limited production item, it happens and the normal consumers are left buying things on the secondary market because they cant compete. I wouldnt be suprised if there were teams of people doing this in various industries just to turn a net profit.

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Re: Sprints

Postby Ankerson » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:12 pm

VooDooChild wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:11 pm
Is the problem flippers and people playing the market? Every sprint run/exclusive is different. I couldnt touch a cruwear micarta shaman with a ten foot pole. But Ive got a straight spine stretch and could probably get another if I wanted.

I think in the modern world we have people making a living off of sitting behind a computer and turning a profit. And when market trends dictate that those people should buy a limited production item, it happens and the normal consumers are left buying things on the secondary market because they cant compete. I wouldnt be suprised if there were teams of people doing this in various industries just to turn a net profit.

Exactly....

Reason why I think Spyderco needs to take this in hand directly...

There are only a certain number of knives, were did they go?

And to whom?

Shouldn't be too hard to figure out...

Someone brought up using serial numbers on sprints, I think that is a good idea....

Then you can keep track of every single knife and were it came from... Exactly....

Then if batches end up on EBAY right away etc get them and look at the serial numbers, that will tell you exactly were the problem is with zero doubt.

And the knives would actually be more valuable in the end...

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Re: Sprints

Postby Ez556 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:24 pm

The idea of sprints being sold exclusively through SFO sounds good in theory, but there’s a lot of details that make that not sound as appealing once you stop and think about it. Again, I like the concept, but then Spyderco has to deal with the massive increase in processing orders and shipping stuff if they took on ALL sprint traffic. You’d also have the big dealers that get all the buzz from sprints and any collateral sales that result that are now mad that you took that from them (though they’d still obviously have exclusives). It’d probably start making the whole sprint run concept less financially sound for Spyderco.
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Re: Sprints

Postby Ankerson » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:26 pm

Ez556 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:24 pm
The idea of sprints being sold exclusively through SFO sounds good in theory, but there’s a lot of details that make that not sound as appealing once you stop and think about it. Again, I like the concept, but then Spyderco has to deal with the massive increase in processing orders and shipping stuff if they took on ALL sprint traffic. You’d also have the big dealers that get all the buzz from sprints and any collateral sales that result that are now mad that you took that from them (though they’d still obviously have exclusives). It’d probably start making the whole sprint run concept less financially sound for Spyderco.

They could do serial numbers instead...

They would know were they all went step by step...

In the end we would see a lot more in the customers hands at normal prices before the flippers etc got them....

At least they would have a much better chance going were they are supposed to go with the people in the supply chain knowing they are being tracked.
Last edited by Ankerson on Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Sprints

Postby Liquid Cobra » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:35 pm

Ez556 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:24 pm
The idea of sprints being sold exclusively through SFO sounds good in theory, but there’s a lot of details that make that not sound as appealing once you stop and think about it. Again, I like the concept, but then Spyderco has to deal with the massive increase in processing orders and shipping stuff if they took on ALL sprint traffic. You’d also have the big dealers that get all the buzz from sprints and any collateral sales that result that are now mad that you took that from them (though they’d still obviously have exclusives). It’d probably start making the whole sprint run concept less financially sound for Spyderco.
Not to mention it would make it nearly impossible for people like me in Canada to get from the SFO.
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Re: Sprints

Postby Larry_Mott » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:39 pm

Not quite sure i follow here, are you saying it's the distributors (straw men) who put the sprints and exclusives on eBay less than an hour after release?
I thought it was "ordinary" people, greedos who order knives through drone accounts using bots to strike the second the release goes public.
(Yes, i am serious)
Regardless of who it is, the only way is to let them get buried with their overpriced knives and they'll probably turn their attention to other stuff in limited edition, watches, baseball cards or what have you :)
I'm afraid raising the limit to 2400 pcs sprint runs would result in either twice as many knives for sale on eBay at extortionate prices, or knives lingering unsold because supply trumped demand..
Maybe i'm just being a tin foil hat negative old geezer.. (Please don't post 'yes you are' :D )
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Re: Sprints

Postby Ankerson » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:41 pm

Larry_Mott wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:39 pm
Not quite sure i follow here, are you saying it's the distributors (straw men) who put the sprints and exclusives on eBay less than an hour after release?
I thought it was "ordinary" people, greedos who order knives through drone accounts using bots to strike the second the release goes public.
(Yes, i am serious)
Regardless of who it is, the only way is to let them get buried with their overpriced knives and they'll probably turn their attention to other stuff in limited edition, watches, baseball cards or what have you :)
I'm afraid raising the limit to 2400 pcs sprint runs would result in either twice as many knives for sale on eBay at extortionate prices, or knives lingering unsold because supply trumped demand..
Maybe i'm just being a tin foil hat negative old geezer.. (Please don't post 'yes you are' :D )

That's why the serial number idea is best. :)

You do know that any dishonest activity over the internet is illegal right?

It's all fraud....

Then once they mail it that's mail fraud etc....

Yes, you can actually put these people in jail and they can do real time...

The min they buy it under false pretenses it becomes illegal merchandise and anything that happens after that is also illegal. So anyone involved can all be charged... They could actually tack on weapons charges too if they got really picky and really wanted to nail them to the wall..

Then there is also income tax evasion on both the State and Federal level while they are adding the charges up.

That's the reason why I have been screaming about it....
Last edited by Ankerson on Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:12 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Sprints

Postby Sumdumguy » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:53 pm

Ankerson wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:41 pm
Larry_Mott wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:39 pm
Not quite sure i follow here, are you saying it's the distributors (straw men) who put the sprints and exclusives on eBay less than an hour after release?
I thought it was "ordinary" people, greedos who order knives through drone accounts using bots to strike the second the release goes public.
(Yes, i am serious)
Regardless of who it is, the only way is to let them get buried with their overpriced knives and they'll probably turn their attention to other stuff in limited edition, watches, baseball cards or what have you :)
I'm afraid raising the limit to 2400 pcs sprint runs would result in either twice as many knives for sale on eBay at extortionate prices, or knives lingering unsold because supply trumped demand..
Maybe i'm just being a tin foil hat negative old geezer.. (Please don't post 'yes you are' :D )

That's why the serial number idea is best. :)
I'm about to get my tin foil hat...

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Re: Sprints

Postby semfi1345 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:02 pm

One thing I don't believe anyone has mentioned is the upfront cost to Spyderco, in both $$$ and time, if they were to double or triple their sprint run numbers. I missed out on all the previous Rex-45 variants but I'm not upset because Spyderco churns out sprints and exclusives like crazy and now look at the reveal; I'll have my opportunity. If they were to up their minimum numbers, I believe the number of sprint runs would dramatically reduce and I'd rather see all the crazy new stuff coming out regularly than just 1 or 2x a year. Even though exclusives weren't the topic, how many of these small shops would be able to afford the upfront cost of 2K-3K knives? Some would but I imagine most wouldn't be able to, again, reducing some awesome exclusives being put out. Just my 2 pennies.
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Re: Sprints

Postby JuPaul » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:28 pm

Personally, I love sprints and exclusives because they allow for so much variety, and for knives that'd never be sustainable as regular production knives. My tastes seem to run somewhat contrary to what the larger spyderco consumer base supports at regular production levels (such as black scales and very high wear-resistance steels like s110) so I'd never get the unusual colored scales and the steels I like best without sprints and exclusives. But sprints are a risk for spyderco, and exclusives are a risk for dealers. We focus on the ones that fly off the shelves, but forget about the others that sit for months, sometimes a year or more. If Spyderco increases their sprint numbers, they increase their risk, and likely would do fewer. If they require dealers to order larger quantities of each exclusive, fewer smaller dealers will be able to afford them.

So, basically, I accept that I won't get everything I want (as in all aspects of life), but I'm still happy for the opportunity to try.
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Re: Sprints

Postby Tucson Tom » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:44 pm

As for the initial suggestion (Spyderco making larger runs of sprints), I am all for it. I doubt that they put a limit in order to create artificial value for collectors (but I could be wrong). I think they just have to have some target number up front. And you don't want to make too many and have them sitting around. It would seem that demand has been much greater than the supply for recent runs, at least I haven't heard about dealers with recent sprints sitting on their shelves. So I think there is little risk for Spyderco in upping the numbers. Go for it!!

I first got interested in this forum because of sprint runs. My thinking was that if I am going buy a Spyderco, why settle for a normal production model I could buy on Amazon? Tell me how to get one of these "special editions" -- and then off I went down the rabbit hole. I don't call myself a collector, I just like interesting things. So a change that makes it easier for me to get my hands on interesting things sounds great.

Selling all sprints at the SFO would make me happy (I think), but who can say about how dealers and distributors would feel about it, and Spyderco has an obligation to keep them happy as well as the end customer.

As for what Nick Shabbaz has to say. Who cares frankly? I enjoy Nick's videos, but they are just entertainment folks! (Best regards Nick!)

As for shady business in the distributor chain -- I never thought about that. Let's get the goon squad moving.

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Re: Sprints

Postby JMM » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:53 pm

I know that this sentiment has been put forth by others, probably in a far more articulate manner, but my general view of this is the reason for me to have this "hobby" is supposed to be, well, enjoyable, the community, the awesome new steels & materials.... but when I try, several "release days" in a row, to order a knife the picosecond it's available, and I get snubbed over and over, it makes something that's supposed to be a fun hobby, something that is stressful and frustrating, that I'm paying (or trying to) for.... that seems to defeat the purpose of what I think allot of us are "here" for....

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Re: Sprints

Postby Dazen » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:00 pm

All Spyderco needs to do is put out a statement with all Sprints saying they reserve the right to do another run if the Sprint sells out in “x” amount of time. That way if the Sprint sells out in minutes they can do another run, if it sells out in a couple days they can do another run, and if it takes a month don't do another run.

If the Sprint is that popular it’s a win for everyone Spyderco, dealers and us!

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Re: Sprints

Postby Ankerson » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:10 pm

JMM wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:53 pm
I know that this sentiment has been put forth by others, probably in a far more articulate manner, but my general view of this is the reason for me to have this "hobby" is supposed to be, well, enjoyable, the community, the awesome new steels & materials.... but when I try, several "release days" in a row, to order a knife the picosecond it's available, and I get snubbed over and over, it makes something that's supposed to be a fun hobby, something that is stressful and frustrating, that I'm paying (or trying to) for.... that seems to defeat the purpose of what I think allot of us are "here" for....

A hobby is supposed to be enjoyable. :)

Not stressful or frustrating.


There is more than enough stressful and frustrating things in life already for a hobby to be one of them.

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Re: Sprints

Postby Archimedes » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:16 pm

JMM wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:53 pm
I know that this sentiment has been put forth by others, probably in a far more articulate manner, but my general view of this is the reason for me to have this "hobby" is supposed to be, well, enjoyable, the community, the awesome new steels & materials.... but when I try, several "release days" in a row, to order a knife the picosecond it's available, and I get snubbed over and over, it makes something that's supposed to be a fun hobby, something that is stressful and frustrating, that I'm paying (or trying to) for.... that seems to defeat the purpose of what I think allot of us are "here" for....
That is why I just moved on and stopped trying. There have been knives I wanted and they are sold out in milliseconds. I also Preorder and get nothing. I just stopped caring and use my old stand by knives.

Then the knife I wanted is 150 more than retail a week later on Ebay.

Thats the market and thats ok. I just am to slow to keep up....LOL :)


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