Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.

Would you be interested in a semi-finished blade you finish?

Yes, this would be an epic addition!!!
6
13%
No, I don’t like it one bit...
31
65%
Maybe, but it would have to be affordable.
5
10%
Maybe, but it would have to be Super Steel!
6
13%
 
Total votes: 48

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Bloke
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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby Bloke » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:35 pm

I don't know about blanks, but I wouldn't be adverse to buying knives without any edge at all.

Wonky edges don't cause me to loose any sleep but it annoys me when I do come to reprofile and sections of the blade are over ground and won't clean up. At very least if I stuff up an edge I can give myself and uppercut ... bit hard to do the same to the kook who final ground my new knife. :rolleyes:
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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby The Meat man » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:03 pm

The Meat man wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:04 pm
What's keeping you from putting your custom edge on a fully ground knife? I don't see the point of this.
One thing I did think of is that with an unfinished edge, you wouldn't have to worry about overheated factory edges making the apex brittle. It wouldn't be enough to make the idea worthwhile to me personally but might to other people.
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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby cycleguy » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:24 pm

I suspect some can do better than factory work, and I suspect many can't. These would no doubt end up on the secondary market and would be construed as samples of Spyderco workmanship. If I'm the manufacturer I'm staying away from this one ...

A kit knife under a different name seems like a safer venture.

Personally, it is something I haven't thought about, but really not interested in. Maybe edgeless mules???


CG
So many knives - so little funds!!!

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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby Evil D » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:09 am

cycleguy wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:24 pm
I suspect some can do better than factory work, and I suspect many can't. These would no doubt end up on the secondary market and would be construed as samples of Spyderco workmanship. If I'm the manufacturer I'm staying away from this one ...

A kit knife under a different name seems like a safer venture.

Personally, it is something I haven't thought about, but really not interested in. Maybe edgeless mules???


CG


There are lots of ways to mark a blade blank as such so the general public knows the difference. Seconds for example have a notch ground into the spine of the blade. It could be something etched on the blade similar to a model name or number or a notch or whatever. I don't see knives sold as seconds hurting Spyderco's reputation.
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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby cycleguy » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:13 am

Evil D wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:09 am
cycleguy wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:24 pm
I suspect some can do better than factory work, and I suspect many can't. These would no doubt end up on the secondary market and would be construed as samples of Spyderco workmanship. If I'm the manufacturer I'm staying away from this one ...

A kit knife under a different name seems like a safer venture.

Personally, it is something I haven't thought about, but really not interested in. Maybe edgeless mules???


CG


There are lots of ways to mark a blade blank as such so the general public knows the difference. Seconds for example have a notch ground into the spine of the blade. It could be something etched on the blade similar to a model name or number or a notch or whatever. I don't see knives sold as seconds hurting Spyderco's reputation.
I would hate to have my name on a knife that is poorly done: poorly assembled and/or poorly ground ... And expect others to see it as not my work. Sorry, but I wouldn't go near it. It WILL be a guilty by association scenario.

CG
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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby Evil D » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:02 pm

cycleguy wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:13 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:09 am
cycleguy wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:24 pm
I suspect some can do better than factory work, and I suspect many can't. These would no doubt end up on the secondary market and would be construed as samples of Spyderco workmanship. If I'm the manufacturer I'm staying away from this one ...

A kit knife under a different name seems like a safer venture.

Personally, it is something I haven't thought about, but really not interested in. Maybe edgeless mules???


CG


There are lots of ways to mark a blade blank as such so the general public knows the difference. Seconds for example have a notch ground into the spine of the blade. It could be something etched on the blade similar to a model name or number or a notch or whatever. I don't see knives sold as seconds hurting Spyderco's reputation.
I would hate to have my name on a knife that is poorly done: poorly assembled and/or poorly ground ... And expect others to see it as not my work. Sorry, but I wouldn't go near it. It WILL be a guilty by association scenario.

CG


Ok but you're missing my point, Spyderco are already selling knives that are less than satisfactory and it isn't hurting their reputation one bit because they are labeled as such. Do you see a huge outcry of people complaining about Spyderco as a brand due to seconds sales? I see people camping out the night before a seconds sale starts.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby Dodge » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:24 pm

It could all be done with a delica or PM2 complete knife that is marked as such. DIY/Edge
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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby Vivi » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:33 pm

Bad idea.

I run 10dps edges, so no Spyderco comes ground to my standards.

But taking a 18-22dps edge down to 10dps is a lot faster than going from no bevel to 10dps.

You don't have to take off so much steel from the apex that the blade gets thicker. You only have to remove steel from the sides to complete 99% of the reprofiling job. If you remove more steel from the apex than you would doing a regular touch-up, you need to re-asses how you're doing things.

I have knives I reprofiled multiple times and carried for a decade (Police 3, Aqua Salt, Dogfather) and there's only a few mm missing off the apex compared to a brand new knife. When I reprofile a brand new Spyderco there is no observable difference in blade height when I'm done.

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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby cycleguy » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:35 pm

Evil D wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:02 pm
cycleguy wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:13 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:09 am
cycleguy wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:24 pm
I suspect some can do better than factory work, and I suspect many can't. These would no doubt end up on the secondary market and would be construed as samples of Spyderco workmanship. If I'm the manufacturer I'm staying away from this one ...

A kit knife under a different name seems like a safer venture.

Personally, it is something I haven't thought about, but really not interested in. Maybe edgeless mules???


CG


There are lots of ways to mark a blade blank as such so the general public knows the difference. Seconds for example have a notch ground into the spine of the blade. It could be something etched on the blade similar to a model name or number or a notch or whatever. I don't see knives sold as seconds hurting Spyderco's reputation.
I would hate to have my name on a knife that is poorly done: poorly assembled and/or poorly ground ... And expect others to see it as not my work. Sorry, but I wouldn't go near it. It WILL be a guilty by association scenario.

CG


Ok but you're missing my point, Spyderco are already selling knives that are less than satisfactory and it isn't hurting their reputation one bit because they are labeled as such. Do you see a huge outcry of people complaining about Spyderco as a brand due to seconds sales? I see people camping out the night before a seconds sale starts.
Ok but your point is not a parallel comparison. Spyderco still has control over quality and workmanship with their seconds, yes? ... or do they just get rid of everything no matter how bad??? And how bad is Spyderco's very worst bad?

For DIY, any average Joe Wanna Be knife guy could be skill-less and could produce some pretty sub standard POS and it would have Spyderco's name attached to it .. maybe like cheap China work for comparison or maybe the handle works loose with little use or maybe working an edge with a high speed grinder and discoloring the metal into a severely jagged edge. I doubt people would line up for days to get something like this (but I do find myself wrong all to frequently, so maybe so :confused: ). Then, average Joe Wanna Be Knife Guy would realize his work is a POS and would look for some Average Joe Unaware to dump his POS off onto. Then some Average Joe Unaware finds out his Spyderco is a POS and gets on the internet and tells everyone what a POS Spyderco product is!!! And then who knows how many Average Joe Ain't Got A Life and Spend All My Time On The Internet Reading Peoples BS would buy into it and start regurgitating the same.....

Think in terms of an amateur attempting to do something professional.

CG
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Vivi
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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby Vivi » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:38 pm

Don't see how that scenario is any different from a regular Spyderco being sold on the secondary market that a less than skilled sharpener worked on. I've traded for some of those and I never pointed a finger at Spyderco.

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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby yablanowitz » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:34 pm

The Mastiff wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:20 pm
I didn’t post an expectation of price so I don’t know how you would know what I think is reasonable.
My guess is they would cost as much as a fully finished knife if they are done in relatively small batches.

Joe
My guess is they would cost more than fully finished knives once they factor in the cost of the lawsuits from Joe Blow fitting up his own lock and losing a finger because he did it wrong. This subject has come up in one form or another about a hundred times, and it has yet to sound like anything other than a liability nightmare.

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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby jasonstone20 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:38 pm

This would be awesome.

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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby Evil D » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:40 pm

cycleguy wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:35 pm

Ok but your point is not a parallel comparison. Spyderco still has control over quality and workmanship with their seconds, yes? ... or do they just get rid of everything no matter how bad??? And how bad is Spyderco's very worst bad?

For DIY, any average Joe Wanna Be knife guy could be skill-less and could produce some pretty sub standard POS and it would have Spyderco's name attached to it .. maybe like cheap China work for comparison or maybe the handle works loose with little use or maybe working an edge with a high speed grinder and discoloring the metal into a severely jagged edge. I doubt people would line up for days to get something like this (but I do find myself wrong all to frequently, so maybe so :confused: ). Then, average Joe Wanna Be Knife Guy would realize his work is a POS and would look for some Average Joe Unaware to dump his POS off onto. Then some Average Joe Unaware finds out his Spyderco is a POS and gets on the internet and tells everyone what a POS Spyderco product is!!! And then who knows how many Average Joe Ain't Got A Life and Spend All My Time On The Internet Reading Peoples BS would buy into it and start regurgitating the same.....

Think in terms of an amateur attempting to do something professional.

CG


I'm not sure we're even talking about the same thing here. Is the idea here to cut your own edge bevels or to grind the entire blade grind?

If I take my knife to a bench grinder and butcher it, how does Spyderco get the blame for that? I could do that right this second with a production knife and try to say it came from the factory that way and I'd get laughed off the internet.

If I get out my Edge Pro and mangle the edge bevel on my knife, how does that represent Spyderco craftsmanship?

Would people really not know the difference between whatever horrible grind jobs you're talking about and actual Spyderco production knives?

...especially if those horrible grind jobs also had something like MULE BLANK engraved into the tang for everyone to see?

And if we're talking about blade blanks, the end result would be a blade swap into an otherwise production knife. If a person did screw that up... again the blade would clearly say MULE BLANK on the tang it would be obvious that Spyderco didn't sell it that way, someone else botched it.


I dunno man I just don't see any risk to Spyderco whatsoever if the blade is clearly marked and is distinguishable from standard production blades. Benchmade and CRK already sell replacement blades, has that in any way hurt their reputation due to DIY Joe Wanna Be Knife guy screwing stuff up?

Heck we already have the Mule program....do you see guys making horrible handles for those and screwing up the blades and passing them off as Spyderco production? No, because everyone knows what a Mule is and knows how they come from the factory. This idea would be the same.
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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby yablanowitz » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:41 pm

Spyderco sells the blade. Spyderco sells the handle. Joe Blow fits the blade and lock himself. Lock fails and Joe Blow gets hurt. Joe Blow sues Spyderco. Don't think that could happen? Talk to Bill Ruger. Manufacturers can be held liable when their customers do stupid things with their products.

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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby Evil D » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:21 pm

yablanowitz wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:41 pm
Spyderco sells the blade. Spyderco sells the handle. Joe Blow fits the blade and lock himself. Lock fails and Joe Blow gets hurt. Joe Blow sues Spyderco. Don't think that could happen? Talk to Bill Ruger. Manufacturers can be held liable when their customers do stupid things with their products.


Who said anything about Spyderco selling handles?

Couldn't I disassemble and poorly reassemble a knife right now and get this same result?
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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby yablanowitz » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:35 pm

Yep. People do it all the time, but the risk is much greater if they are selling the blade by itself. Where are you going to get the handle for that blade? You buy a complete Spyderco knife and do a blade swap, which means fitting the new blade and lock yourself. Fine for those who know what they are doing, disaster waiting to happen for those who only think they know what they are doing. Care to guess which of those groups is larger?

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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby Evil D » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:51 pm

Like I said, CRK and Benchmade have been selling blades for years (decades?) and it hasn't ruined those companies yet has it?
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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby yablanowitz » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:04 am

Evil D wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:51 pm
Like I said, CRK and Benchmade have been selling blades for years (decades?) and it hasn't ruined those companies yet has it?
This is Sal's house and in keeping with his shiny footprint policy, I won't discuss the business practices of other companies. If you cannot (or will not) accept Sal's stated concerns on this subject as valid, you are welcome to start your own company and show him how things should be done.

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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby Evil D » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:13 am

yablanowitz wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:04 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:51 pm
Like I said, CRK and Benchmade have been selling blades for years (decades?) and it hasn't ruined those companies yet has it?
This is Sal's house and in keeping with his shiny footprint policy, I won't discuss the business practices of other companies. If you cannot (or will not) accept Sal's stated concerns on this subject as valid, you are welcome to start your own company and show him how things should be done.


Ok so what's with the attitude?

Look, I really don't care either way, we've discussed custom kit knives before and we all know it isn't going to happen but these concerns about ruining reputation are absolute nonsense. If you guys wanna argue it into the ground that's fine but the attitude is unnecessary. Have I said anything about how this company should or shouldn't be ran? No. I'm just making the point that other companies sell separate/individual blades and it hasn't ruined those companies reputation so there's no reason to say it would for Spyderco. Whether it fits their business model is a completely different debate isn't it? Were we talking about business models or were we talking about liability and ruining reputation?
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Sal and Co. DIY edgeless blanks?

Postby Dodge » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:38 pm

Wow, didn’t know I was such a controversial topic starter!!

I see all sides of the arguments, but I still
Think it would be super cool if they had a DIY sprint even of a Delica or PM2 that a father and son could work on, or I could try and do a zero edge chisel grind on.
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