S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Tdog » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:39 pm

I bought 2 of the Chokwe's in S30V and glad I did. It's a great knife, a great slicer, great in the hand, and in the pocket. :D There may have been models I passed in S30V or VG-10 but it was usually because my wallet was tapped out. ;)

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby SF Native » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:43 pm

I don’t pass on knives because of the steel.
I will hold out for a sprint run if I think one is coming. Just for the record, I like s30v way more than vg10.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Sumdumguy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:00 pm

Sharp Guy wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:20 pm
Sumdumguy wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:38 pm
I've passed on or sold many S30V knives.

Never have I passed because of VG-10.
I'm curious to know why you'd pass on S30V but not VG-10. I like 'em both and don't favor one over the other. So I'm interested in knowing why you'd pass on a knife because of S30V but not VG-10.
I don't care for the sharpening response of S30V.

I prefer VG-10 as a base steel. I have been using it for years in the kitchen and it performs great. It has been obliterated by LC200N, but I'll still buy it if I can't get LC200N in a particular model.

S30V, eh. The only S30V I have left is my Swick and it will be sold as soon as the Swick 5 comes out.

Then, I'll never have to see S30V again![except maybe Ikuchi(should've been LC200N)]

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby attila » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:05 pm

S30V and VG-10 are why I don't buy readily-available basic models anymore. I have too many knives to buy something plain.

VG-10 in my Delicas and Breeden Rescue were just okay, but as stated above, it felt kinda mushy and boring. The S30V in my original Native was better but nothing to write home about.

Since then, the only S30V I've purchased was an original Swick, an all-black Manix 2, and the Lil'Native backlock. I also received a Kapara for the 2019 calendar contest. S30V isn't enough reason for me to keep any of them.

The Manix was sold, and the Lil'Natives are for sale, but the Swick is too unique to sell, and the Kapara is special due to being a prize.

So, I can safely say that I don't ever desire S30V, but a knife's uniqueness can win me over if it's really special. With regard to VG-10, I wish I liked it, but I can't see myself ever buying anymore VG-10.
Own: VG-10 Delica, Old S30V Native, modified Breeden Rescue, VG-10 Delica, HAP40 Endura, ZDP-189 Dragonfly, S110V Manix 2 LW,Pakkawood Delica, Cruwear Para 3, SE H1 Dragonfly, M4 Manix 2, HAP40 Caly 3, smooth G10 S90V Native, K390 Urban, Pakkawood Dragonfly, smooth G10 Cruwear PM2, SE Pacific Salt, HAP40 Jazzlica, Blurple Native, P.I.T.S., DLC Manix 2, REX 45 PM2, REX 45 Para 3, XHP Manix 2 LW, Superblue Caly 3, DLT 20CV PM2, Rhino, SB Calypso Jr., B70P, PMA11, K03, G10 ZDP-189 Stretch 2, Kapara, REX 45 Military, 154CM Manix 2 LW, KW 204p PM2, Swick, Supergold Delica, back lock Lil'Native, AEB-L Urban, HAP40 Stretch, smooth G10 Cruwear Manix, Cruwear Military, DLT M390 PM2, Cruwear Delica, CPM 4V Lil'Native, Mantra 2, Cruwear & Micarta Shaman

Waiting for: Swick 5, and something purple
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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Vivi » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:14 pm

Sharp Guy wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:10 pm
Spydergirl88 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:57 pm
MichaelScott wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:54 pm
It’s more the knife than the steel for me.
Me too
Me three :)

I enjoy checking out different steels but most of them are overkill for my needs. As long as it's sharp when I need it be then I'm good.
Same here. There is nothing wrong with the performance of S30V to me. I wouldn't refuse to purchase a great design just because it uses a well performing, balanced steel.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby knivesandbooks » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:55 pm

Never passed because s30v. Have and will continue to pass on near $200 peel ply g10 folders with vg10 though.
I own an assisted knife and am embarrassed to admit I enjoy it.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Sharp Guy » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:52 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:00 pm
I don't care for the sharpening response of S30V.
That's kind of what I thought you'd say and that's perfectly acceptable. We all have our personal preferences. While I find VG-10 a little easier to get really sharp, I don't find S30V to be that much harder. I sharpened my Sliverax and UKPK S30V on the Sharpmaker the other night. It didn't take much effort to get the edges to have that sticky sharp feeling that I like. They glide through phone book paper effortlessly. Good enough for me.
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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Sumdumguy » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:58 am

Sharp Guy wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:52 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:00 pm
I don't care for the sharpening response of S30V.
That's kind of what I thought you'd say and that's perfectly acceptable. We all have our personal preferences. While I find VG-10 a little easier to get really sharp, I don't find S30V to be that much harder. I sharpened my Sliverax and UKPK S30V on the Sharpmaker the other night. It didn't take much effort to get the edges to have that sticky sharp feeling that I like. They glide through phone book paper effortlessly. Good enough for me.
I used to love S110V until trying to sharpen out a few chips in the edge. Life's too short.

I still feel that it is a fantastic steel, just not in my applications.

S30V has had a similar problem with brittleness in my use, but lacks the extreme edge retention and corrosion resistance to make up for it.
I dislike it because it is a steel that's okay, but it's not really good at anything.

Although I haven't used it as rigorously as the others, I have had no issues with S90V. It sharpens very nicely.
Perhaps it's the heat treat?

To conclude:

LC200N > any other "base" steel option.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby MichaelScott » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:18 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:58 am
I dislike it because it is a steel that's okay, but it's not really good at anything.
What does this even mean? This thread has gotten so far into the weeds (or into another solar system) that we now have the assertion that what was touted as a “super steel” just a few years ago is now not good for anything.

Just because you believe something does not mean that it is true.

Without evidence it’s just another opinion blowing in the wind.
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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Sumdumguy » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:09 am

MichaelScott wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:18 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:58 am
I dislike it because it is a steel that's okay, but it's not really good at anything.
What does this even mean? This thread has gotten so far into the weeds (or into another solar system) that we now have the assertion that what was touted as a “super steel” just a few years ago is now not good for anything.

Just because you believe something does not mean that it is true.

Without evidence it’s just another opinion blowing in the wind.
Firstly, it was not meant to offend. I never said it was bad, just not good compared to my options.

Secondly, it was an opinion. A more detailed reason as to why I don't personally enjoy the steel. It is a critique based on reasonable experience with the steels being compared. My evidence is my word, take it if you will.

I apologize if it came off wrong. :)

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Bill1170 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:16 am

MichaelScott wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:18 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:58 am
I dislike it because it is a steel that's okay, but it's not really good at anything.
What does this even mean? This thread has gotten so far into the weeds (or into another solar system) that we now have the assertion that what was touted as a “super steel” just a few years ago is now not good for anything.

Just because you believe something does not mean that it is true.

Without evidence it’s just another opinion blowing in the wind.
I agree with this from Michael. We are spoiled today with so many choices of steel, handle material, shape, and lock type. It is easy to be carried away by the new hotness and lose sight of just how great the old standbys really are. Both VG-10 and S30V are excellent blade steels when made correctly. I suspect a lot of disrespect for them arises from their failure to elicit an endorphin rush, rather than their actual performance properties.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:33 am

Bill1170 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:16 am
MichaelScott wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:18 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:58 am
I dislike it because it is a steel that's okay, but it's not really good at anything.
What does this even mean? This thread has gotten so far into the weeds (or into another solar system) that we now have the assertion that what was touted as a “super steel” just a few years ago is now not good for anything.

Just because you believe something does not mean that it is true.

Without evidence it’s just another opinion blowing in the wind.
I agree with this from Michael. We are spoiled today with so many choices of steel, handle material, shape, and lock type. It is easy to be carried away by the new hotness and lose sight of just how great the old standbys really are. Both VG-10 and S30V are excellent blade steels when made correctly. I suspect a lot of disrespect for them arises from their failure to elicit an endorphin rush, rather than their actual performance properties.
I will agree with all of that up to a point. And yes we have been spoiled in a sense but is that a bad thing? That to me is one big reason I stay a fan of Spyderco. And if you just happened to like maybe 2 or 3 blade steels that are not S30V or VG-10 is that really being arrogant or bad? Or is it just simply being selective? That's all it is to me. And I've found over the years that not every heat treatment is the same>> it varies from batch to batch>> irrespective of the blade steel.

And I don't think it's being disrespectful just because a person has preference or a favorite. Take the Chockwe model for instance that I passed up on>> but I would love it if it were available in S90V, M390 or M-4. But those are just selections I happen to like. I really wasn't trying to cast negative dispersions on S30V I was just curious if others felt the same way I did>> that's all.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby MichaelScott » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:15 pm

I am a Spyderco fan for many reasons, and the wide steel options are one. I just thought that statements like “not really good for anything” contribute nothing to the discussion and are patently wrong.
What doesn’t kill you will make you stronger. Except infantry. Infantry will kill you.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby zippifish » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:36 pm

For a sub $200 knife I don't have a problem with S30V at all, the Para 3 has met/exceeded expectations performance wise, getting north of $200 I expect better blade steel and most of the knives I'm interested anymore are quite more than that.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:54 pm

Sumdumguy wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:58 am
Sharp Guy wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:52 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:00 pm
I don't care for the sharpening response of S30V.
That's kind of what I thought you'd say and that's perfectly acceptable. We all have our personal preferences. While I find VG-10 a little easier to get really sharp, I don't find S30V to be that much harder. I sharpened my Sliverax and UKPK S30V on the Sharpmaker the other night. It didn't take much effort to get the edges to have that sticky sharp feeling that I like. They glide through phone book paper effortlessly. Good enough for me.
I used to love S110V until trying to sharpen out a few chips in the edge. Life's too short.

I still feel that it is a fantastic steel, just not in my applications.

S30V has had a similar problem with brittleness in my use, but lacks the extreme edge retention and corrosion resistance to make up for it.
I dislike it because it is a steel that's okay, but it's not really good at anything.

Although I haven't used it as rigorously as the others, I have had no issues with S90V. It sharpens very nicely.
Perhaps it's the heat treat?

To conclude:

LC200N > any other "base" steel option.
Hey Dude!!?? on S110V it's not the monster you may think it is. Just get a couple of diamond stones to do the preliminary work with. Once you do a reprofile with a diamond stone or two then it's not that much harder to get that steel real scary sharp.
Also as far as S30V or VG-10 I don't find either one a major sharpening chore at all compared to about 3 of those newer supersteels and again they aren't that bad if you got the right sharpening tools to do the worst of it.
No sharpening is not all that much of an issue at all unless you want to put 440V ( S60V ) into the conversation and it's even harder and more aggravating that many of the newer supersteels are. 440V will truly make a good, decent well behaved man start using a lot of curse words. Now that is some really mean steel to play with :o

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby standy99 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:22 pm

I buy the models I like. Steel not that important as I have mastered sharpening (20+ years butchering)

To me $60 more for a PM2 in Maxamet compared to S30V at Knifecenter at the moment it would be S30V every time. Few extra $ for S35VN OK but not $60 dollars any steel. (Ok maybe M4 :D :D)
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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:31 am

attila wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:05 pm
S30V and VG-10 are why I don't buy readily-available basic models anymore. I have too many knives to buy something plain.

VG-10 in my Delicas and Breeden Rescue were just okay, but as stated above, it felt kinda mushy and boring.

Since then, the only S30V I've purchased was an original Swick, an all-black Manix 2, and the Lil'Native backlock. I also received a Kapara for the 2019 calendar contest. but the Swick is too unique to sell, and the Kapara is special due to being a prize.

So, I can safely say that I don't ever desire S30V, but a knife's uniqueness can win me over if it's really special.
I can really relate with a lot of what you've said here. Now the Swick would be one I would like to have again because of it's rather unique, one of a kind design. But again if I had a choice in the matter and knew it was eventually going to be offered up in another steel I would wait.

Now if they made something like a Swick Hawkbill I would hold my nose and just settle with the S30V in that case.

It seems like they made a lot more very unique designs in VG-10 which I find acceptable anyway. But in the case of S30V collector pieces just like my Dodo models it's got to be special, unique and hard to find>> but collector pieces are another ball game all together.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Woodpuppy » Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:26 pm

The only Spyderco I’ve bought in s30v was the teal dragonfly to put away for one of my daughters. I bought it for the color, in spite of the steel, because they love teal. The only other knife I own in s30v is a Benchmade Snody 210, a neck knife sized fixed blade. It was my sharpening nemesis, and I mostly keep it because with good instruction from this forum I finally beat it.

Generally I will pass on anything in s30v; I’d have to really want the model to accept it. I’ve no beef with VG10, but if I want corrosion resistance, I’d rather have rust PROOF. For general use, I would prefer a tool steel. M4 and cruwear have been favorites for the last year.

I hope the Swick 5 comes from Golden in M4!
:spyder: AUS8, M4, H1, VG10, 52100, HAP40, REX45, N690Co, CTS-BD1, CRUWEAR, AEB-L, S30V :spyder:

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby prndltech » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:46 pm

I’m fine with the “basic” models. I agree with what’s already been said, we’ve been spoiled. I got hooked by the base models of many manufacturers, and then spent tons of money trying out “exotic” steels, only to realize that I don’t have a need for anything else. I have sort of returned to the basics, if you will.
I think VG-10 and s30v are both great steels. While I have my preference on the 2 (vg10) , I’m okay with either... both are leaps and bounds above what I used to use and what most “normal people” have in their pockets!

If I have a Spyderco with either one of those steels (or better yet, SE H1) I’m doing just fine, friends.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:12 pm

For the last two weeks I have been EDC-ing two knives. The Spyderco Delica in Cruwear. Freaking stupid awesome combo!!

The second larger knife a Buck 110 in 440C with Nickel metal bolsters G10 scales and a pocket clip.

Now let’s be clear nothing beats Cruwear in a FFG BUT I gotta tell everyone the grandpa style Buck110 ain’t no slouch either!

Honestly I like 440C better than S30V.

It is easier to to sharpen and just as corrosion resistant if not more. Holds a truly sharp edge longer and well golly gosh darn I hope Spyderco will drop the steel craze a bit as they are all over the map with different steels and give us some 440C.

I am on board to buy some let’s return to yesteryear with some solid 440C.
:)


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