SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

[Bill1170]

I keep a Byrd Rescue in my car, in case I need to rescue a motorist stuck in a crashed vehicle. It’s a lot of knife for the money, and came ferociously sharp.

[olywa]

The Byrd SEs are going for a song on some discontinued sales right now. Saw Harrier 2 SE Wharnies for $26 or $27 at a couple of sites. Be a crime not to stash a couple away.

[Erion929]

If you're looking for a beater it's hard to do better than the Byrd Rescue SE in orange or black. Much stouter than the Atlantic and I like the serration pattern better. The orange one is pretty hard to lose.

Not sure if that’s the same model, but I just bought the orange Byrd Cara Cara 2 rescue….my 1st serrated model….to see if I like serrations. Ugly as ****, but for $35 delivered, seems a good utility or emergency knife and worth a try.

Got my Cara Cara rescue, my first serrated and first backlock.

SO DAYYUMMM…..pushed the backlock to close, the blade came down 2/3 of the way onto my finger and cut it . Every vid I’ve seen on backlocks you have to manually close the whole last half of closure? Guess I’ll have to use two hands to close….or put my index finger all the way up to that point just behind the choil?

.

[cabfrank]

Oh my. There are videos of one hand closing lock backs. It's really simple. You'll get used to it.

[RustyIron]

pushed the backlock to close, the blade came down 2/3 of the way onto my finger and cut it

Don't feel bad. You're not the only one. I had a couple Spyderco backlocks and never had a problem. Then I got my first Police, and within the first two minutes after taking it out of the box, I nicked my finger while closing the knife. I did it a couple more times before my fingers eventually remembered what to do. Blood is a good teacher. Unfortunately, some of us don't learn the lesson the first time.

Tell your index finger to stay far enough forward so that even if you allow the blade to close too far, the edge can't touch you.

[SaltyCaribbeanDfly]

Hi Erion929,
I’m fairly experienced with back locks and where to place your index finger but the Siren bit me so many times I now have a permanent callus where it nicked me over and over so you’re not alone with the learning curve

[Wartstein]

Got my Cara Cara rescue, my first serrated and first backlock.

SO DAYYUMMM…..pushed the backlock to close, the blade came down 2/3 of the way onto my finger and cut it . Every vid I’ve seen on backlocks you have to manually close the whole last half of closure? Guess I’ll have to use two hands to close….or put my index finger all the way up to that point just behind the choil?

.

Well, with such an substantial choil it should be no problem to put the index finger in a spot where it does not get hit by the edge?

Anyway, I never use that "drop the choil on the forefinger" myself.

Here are three short clips of methods I use with backlocks (there are more), each done one time extra slow for demonstration, then two times regular speed.
Number 1 and 2 are really convenient, Number 3 might take some practice (also: you can always push the blade the rest of the way to close on your leg or some object)

https://streamable.com/myzlt

https://streamable.com/bhhzs

https://streamable.com/j7fjd

[Erion929]

pushed the backlock to close, the blade came down 2/3 of the way onto my finger and cut it

Don't feel bad. You're not the only one. I had a couple Spyderco backlocks and never had a problem. Then I got my first Police, and within the first two minutes after taking it out of the box, I nicked my finger while closing the knife. I did it a couple more times before my fingers eventually remembered what to do. Blood is a good teacher. Unfortunately, some of us don't learn the lesson the first time.

Tell your index finger to stay far enough forward so that even if you allow the blade to close too far, the edge can't touch you.

Thanks Rusty (and SaltyCarribean) for the support. Guess I just stupidly “trusted” the blade to know where to fall, LOL. It’s like I just laid my finger there for the guillotine

I think I’ll just tilt the knife about 45 degrees down when pressing the button, so gravity keeps the blade dangling somewhat….

Thanks Wartstein, for the vids
.

[vivi]

If you're looking for a beater it's hard to do better than the Byrd Rescue SE in orange or black. Much stouter than the Atlantic and I like the serration pattern better. The orange one is pretty hard to lose.

Not sure if that’s the same model, but I just bought the orange Byrd Cara Cara 2 rescue….my 1st serrated model….to see if I like serrations. Ugly as ****, but for $35 delivered, seems a good utility or emergency knife and worth a try.

Got my Cara Cara rescue, my first serrated and first backlock.

SO DAYYUMMM…..pushed the backlock to close, the blade came down 2/3 of the way onto my finger and cut it . Every vid I’ve seen on backlocks you have to manually close the whole last half of closure? Guess I’ll have to use two hands to close….or put my index finger all the way up to that point just behind the choil?

.

Fortunately that's not the only way to close a lockback one handed.

https://streamja.com/zOevL

No idea why the "drop a knife edge right next to your most important finger" method is the most popular. It's something like my 4th or 5th choice of how to close my lockbacks.

[Wartstein]

.

Fortunately that's not the only way to close a lockback one handed.

https://streamja.com/zOevL

No idea why the "drop a knife edge right next to your most important finger" method is the most popular. It's something like my 4th or 5th choice of how to close my lockbacks.

This. So much this.

[Erion929]

Fortunately that's not the only way to close a lockback one handed.

https://streamja.com/zOevL

No idea why the "drop a knife edge right next to your most important finger" method is the most popular. It's something like my 4th or 5th choice of how to close my lockbacks.

Thanks for the vid….looks fine that way….except on this knife, the reach from the thumb on the relatively stiff backlock for the forefinger to reach the blade hole is barely there, for me. Because my thumb needs to maintain solid pressure on the lock, my forefinger only reaches the back 1/3 of the blade hole.

Anyway, I get the move…I’ll see whatever works. It’s not like I need to close the knife in 0.03 secs.

I’m just not leaving my finger in the blade path anymore on this one.
.

[vivi]

Yeah some methods can be hand size dependent I suppose.

You can try this one too, but how easy it is varies a lot knife to knife. I have some like this C95 and my old Siren where it feels effortless, but on others it can be a bit tougher.

https://streamja.com/mzkoz

[Wartstein]

Yeah some methods can be hand size dependent I suppose.

You can try this one too, but how easy it is varies a lot knife to knife. I have some like this C95 and my old Siren where it feels effortless, but on others it can be a bit tougher.

https://streamja.com/mzkoz

I actually like to use this method a lot and it can be done pretty fast too (see the "regular speed" second and third closing in my vid https://streamable.com/j7fjd ) - though as you say: It varies from knife to knife indeed. On all of my Enduras, Stretches ,the Stretch XL and the Goddard it is really convenient, but for example on the Chaparral really not. Probably cause the Chap lockbar is thin and a bit harder to depress and the blade very light.

[SaltyCaribbeanDfly]

Man I’m loving all these videos, thanks Vivi and Gernot for posting them…I’m still trying to get a couple down to muscle memory…I thought I was pretty good but wow

[RyanY]

Hey friends. I’m thinking about trying serrations again. I had a se tenacious that I used to like but unfortunately the sharpmaker got lost in a move (I still haven’t recovered from that loss, I need to replace it.) and I tried sharpening the tenacious with a tapered DMT rod and proceeded to get terrible performance. Rather than make the connection that it was missing the sharpmaker that ruined my serration experience I made the assumption that plain edge was superior for all my needs and now that tenacious is in a storage unit in another state.

I want to know your experienced opinions about large knives vs small knives as they pertain to serration performance. The knives I am considering are H2 dragonfly se, magnacut native se, endela se, and pac salt se (either lc200n or H2, idk which I would prefer).

My typical carry is a dragonfly iwb and either a native or delica in the pocket. Sometimes I carry something larger like an endela and would be willing to go endura sized too. I’m wondering if to experience the full benefit of serrations it is better to have a long edge, or if perhaps serrations are an even bigger game changer for small knives since a long plain edge can do long slices, while a smaller knife is mostly push cutting or short back and forth slices through material.

I have now typed far more than I expected, but if I distill my question down it is this: for those who love serrations, do you find the biggest benefits are on the small knives or the big knives? If you carried one small knife iwb and a larger knife in the pocket which one would be serrated and which one would be plain edge?

Thanks for your thoughts in advance.

[RustyIron]

for those who love serrations, do you find the biggest benefits are on the small knives or the big knives? If you carried one small knife iwb and a larger knife in the pocket which one would be serrated and which one would be plain edge?

Easy. The bigger blade should be serrated. To me, the serrated blade is best for hacking through difficult materials. Bigger blades are better when you're hacking through stuff. Plain edges excel when doing delicate, precision work. Smaller blades are better for that.

Honestly, I typically carry larger knives whether it's plain or serrated.

[jwbnyc]

Serrations, for me, are all about reliability.

Even a severely neglected SE blade is going to allow you to get through whatever it is you need to get through.

Heck, you could lose 50% of the teeth and it would still do the job. It won’t be pretty but it’ll get it done. If you want pretty, keep those serrations sharp.

They also are not dependent on steel, cutting ability being based on design and construction, rather than edge retention and composition.

I bought a K390 Endura SE recently, just to see if it matters at all. Im also curious to see if using ceramic to sharpen it will make a difference, whether the serrations will obviate any drop in edge performance, caused by not “sharpening the carbides”.

I expect it will perform longer without having to do anything to the edge, but; I have enough experience with serrations, without sharpening, decades really, in softer steels and no maintenance, to know it’s not going to blow any other SE blade out of the water.

Sure, you’ll get more edge retention out of a higher carbide steel, but that isn’t really how serrations work.

Basically, you can rely on a Spyderedge to come through when the chips are down.

More serrations are better then less serrations in most cases, but a small SE knife punches considerably above its weight, witness the Manbug SE Sheepsfoot.

[Wartstein]

Serrations, for me, are all about reliability.

Even a severely neglected SE blade is going to allow you to get through whatever it is you need to get through.

Heck, you could lose 50% of the teeth and it would still do the job. It won’t be pretty but it’ll get it done. If you want pretty, keep those serrations sharp.

They also are not dependent on steel, cutting ability being based on design and construction, rather than edge retention and composition.

..

Great points.

One of the big SE advantages: A spyderedged blade will still be a capable "separator" when any PE blade would long be considered completely dull already.

[Wartstein]

Hey friends. I’m thinking about trying serrations again. I had a se tenacious.......

/ ....If you carried one small knife iwb and a larger knife in the pocket which one would be serrated and which one would be plain edge?

Since you already know the Endela, I think it would be a good option to go with that one, but in SE and VG10 (rather affordable too).

It has a great serration pattern, imo clearly better than on the Tenacious SE (you owned (I do know both models in SE) and seems to be on the larger size already for your taste anyway (I personally find the Endela rather small though when it comes to cutting edge length).
And VG10 is amazing in SE and I dare to say will remain (in SE) a capable cutter at least as long as a "supersteel" in PE.

Now for your question: If I carried a large and a small knife and one of those had to be in PE: Without any doubt I´d go with SE for the large one and PE for the small one (and make the small one a wharnie perhaps).

This is just cause for me a good Spyderco SE blade works better in pretty much any task I do with folders, and the large option would be my main EDC

That said: In a way small blades profit a lot from SE, cause the serrations make for an effectively longer cutting edge.

[vivi]

A lot of the benefits of SE vs PE don't apply when the PE knife is sharpened very coarse.

I sharpened my EDC, a PE Military, weeks ago. It stopped scrape shaving a while ago. Still has incredible cutting performance since I only took it to 180 grit.

I also ran an experiment where I went two months without sharpening my PE Pacific Salt. It still cut fine at the end of two months, despite hacking into a steel fence by accident and rolling nearly the entire edge a couple weeks into the experiment.

There's a bit of a bias in a sense towards SE here. SE is awesome in certain scenarios. But a lot of the "magic" of SE can be replicated with a very coarse PE.

That's why I went from being such a strong advocate of SE, to putting my enthusiasm behind very coarse PE edges. Because to me they offer most the advantages of SE (Cutting great even when dull, edges not slipping off materials, very aggressive slicing) while removing the drawbacks (SE is weaker than PE, SE snags more than PE regardless of how its sharpened, SE takes more specialized equipment to sharpen).

All three edge types have their pros and cons (SE, polished PE, coarse PE). One thing SE does have over either PE edge, for example, is it clearly offers more cutting edge in the same blade length.

As far as carrying two knives, I'd pick two light ones. I'd probably rock a PE and SE Pacific Salt. I'd go SE H1/H2, and PE LC200N. Hx steels are tougher than LC so I like them better for SE, while the LC Pacific is extra light which negates some of the down sides of carrying two knives.

YMMV but in my life I don't require a PE or SE from a utility pocket knife. I can get by with one or the other. Other specialized knives like machetes and chef knives I may require a specific edge type, but I don't personally see a benefit in EDCing both types.