Just the brown SM flats

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soc_monki
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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby soc_monki » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:51 pm

I always use a microbevel... That's the way Sal said to use the sharpmaker, and it works. Why mess with success? Lol
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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby Pelagic » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:43 pm

Spyderco "medium" is quite fine in reality, and leaves a good uniform scratch pattern that isn't overly aggressive. Outlandish sharpness can be attained off the brown rods/stone. But it has slightly more tooth (of course) than the fine and ultrafine rods/stone. It's an excellent all around finish for both pushcutting and slicing.
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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby TkoK83Spy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:47 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:43 pm
Spyderco "medium" is quite fine in reality, and leaves a good uniform scratch pattern that isn't overly aggressive. Outlandish sharpness can be attained off the brown rods/stone. But it has slightly more tooth (of course) than the fine and ultrafine rods/stone. It's an excellent all around finish for both pushcutting and slicing.
Totally agree. I'm starting to learn that for my warehouse based work, some toothy edges really are what works best for me. I very rarely use my UF stones, and occasionally just a few passes on the Fine stones.
Currently have 17 :spyder: 's in 13 different steels.

-Rick

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Vivi
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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby Vivi » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:21 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:43 pm
Spyderco "medium" is quite fine in reality, and leaves a good uniform scratch pattern that isn't overly aggressive. Outlandish sharpness can be attained off the brown rods/stone. But it has slightly more tooth (of course) than the fine and ultrafine rods/stone. It's an excellent all around finish for both pushcutting and slicing.
Yep. Most common bench stones are going to be coarser than the brown rods. The edge they leave is pretty refined, and like you said it strikes a nice balance between push cutting ability and slicing aggression.

I'd only go finer with knives used primarily for push cutting, like a chef knife or scandi wood carving fixed blade. Coarser edges for beaters, slicers, machetes, or knives that cut a lot of rope, cardboard, etc.

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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby Enactive » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:02 pm

This afternoon i busted out the SharpMaker/ LazyMaker (Nice one, D!) to do some touch up. I generally don't let things get dull or even down to "working sharpness."

I used only the flats of the brown rods on the 30 degree setting to make all of my 8 user Spydies sharp enough to easily shave or in ~1/2 of the cases sharp enough to 'tree-top' or 'catch' arm or leg hair above the skin. I still can't always, nor easily get tree-topping or hair-whittling sharp -- but they will at least easily shave or catch hair. There is plenty of room for improvement.

This entire process was rather quick-- only slowed down by a few rounds of washing the stones with Barkeepers Friend and green Scotchbrite. It is much better to work with clean stones! :cool: :spyder:

All 8 of these knives either came from the factory, or I have reprofiled down to 15 DPS or less. Of the 8 knives the 3 older and more used knives (SpydieChef, Resilience, V-Toku Stretch) have no sign of factory grind lines. Each of these older 3 has spent time on my Japanese waterstone as well as the SM. The 5 newer knives have only been touched up on the SM. (Native Salt, Efficient, Native Chief, S30V Shaman, CruWear Native 5).

Of the edges that i worked on today, the two S30V blades were clearly the 'hardest' to achieve higher level sharpness (with only the brown flats) although it was not difficult. The V-Toku 2, 8Cr13MoV, LC200N and CruWear were all easy to get to a high level of sharpness. It is hard to rank the difficulty of sharpening those steels because of differences in blade geometries, beginning sharpness, etc.

A difference that i noticed (new knive, duh) is that CruWear does really take that aggressive and refined edge very easily as compared to V-Toku, 8Cr. LC is definitely the runner-up to CruWear for cutting aggression among those steels. Of course, S30 is plenty aggressive too.

I was already all primed for the CruWear Shaman, but after sharpening some CruWear... oooh boy. Is it already a contender for new favorite steel? Time will tell, but it's a good one.

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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby TkoK83Spy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:20 pm

soc_monki wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:31 pm
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:06 am
Depending how often or hard you use your knives, I find the polished edge to be pointless to try and maintain. That's a lot of work to get there, just to get easily scuffed up. If it's just a display knife or pocket jewelry then I could see the appeal.
It's just fun to get that shiny look. The edges work perfectly fine if not polished. Just a preference! But I use all my knives, cutting cardboard, stripping cable, paper cutting, cutting tomatoes off my plant, trimming small branches off trees, shaving arm hair, trying to whittle hair... Lol
I'm not knocking you! Good for you to have the patience to achieve that edge. I just personally don't have it in me anymore and get aggravated when it becomes scuffed up. I cut some similar materials as you and know it's a lot of work for that beautiful finish. More power to you brother!
Currently have 17 :spyder: 's in 13 different steels.

-Rick

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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby Sharp Guy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:05 pm

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:06 am
Depending how often or hard you use your knives, I find the polished edge to be pointless to try and maintain. That's a lot of work to get there, just to get easily scuffed up. If it's just a display knife or pocket jewelry then I could see the appeal.
Thing is, at least for me, if I'm going to take the time to reprofile on my Hapstone I'm going to do it how I want it. Don't really care what ol' Rick thinks. So I usually go all the way through to the really fine stones and then polishing tapes. When that's all done I might run it through some hardwood to deburr and use it as is. Or, I might give it a few passes on the Sharpmaker brown stones at 40° to give it a little more tooth. It cuts like a laser either way. Future touch ups are on the medium and sometimes even the fine stones. I might even use the UF stones if I'm feeling really wild but that's rare. I do like how they cut off the mediums. So lately I've been stopping there. I don't care if the polished bevel gets scuffed up. Kind of surprising for me considering how OCD I am about things but it bothers me 0. Other than the business part of the edge, there is no trying to maintain it. You'd drive yourself crazy that way. I just use it and keep touching up the micro bevel until it's not so micro anymore. Then I put it on the Hapstone and start over.

Call it pocket jewelry if you want but I bet my knives get used as much as yours. Not sure why you seem to think you're the only one who uses their knives.
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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby Pelagic » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:39 pm

Sharp Guy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:05 pm
Call it pocket jewelry if you want but I bet my knives get used as much as yours. Not sure why you seem to think you're the only one who uses their knives.
Uhhh, haven't you heard? I'M the only person here that uses their knives!

:cool:
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Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
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Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
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zhyla
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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby zhyla » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:45 pm

Vivi wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:16 pm
what's confusing about it? polishing to high grits isn't necessary for shaving sharpness.
Based on my experience with sandpaper and sharpening plane irons and straight razors I don't see what I consider shaving sharp until 1200 grit. And I sharpen the straight razors to around 5000 grit (2000 will get the job done, but the finer the better for actual shaving). I fully understand that when most people say "shaving sharp" they don't mean its in ideal condition to use on your face. My definition in this context is just that it takes hair off my arm reliably.

Obviously, I haven't used medium SM stones for plane irons or straight razors as that's not practical. But I'm wondering if there's something more at play here like the sharpening dust stuck in the stones doing more polishing than you'd expect for the coarseness of the stone.
Bloke wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:11 pm
I think we tend to over think sharpening sometimes and complicate it for no good reason. I find if I concentrate on a clean burr free apex sharpness just happens.
Certainly there is an over-focus on mirror edges in the knife community. That's not my thing. My kitchen knives I usually only take up to 600 grit -- the toothy edge on a thin blade gets the job done well.
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:06 am
Depending how often or hard you use your knives, I find the polished edge to be pointless to try and maintain. That's a lot of work to get there, just to get easily scuffed up. If it's just a display knife or pocket jewelry then I could see the appeal.
Polished bevels are not just for looks. In the literal sense the more polished the edge is by definition the sharper the edge is. It's the same thing. And in theory the sharper the edge is the longer it should hold an edge (how much may depend a lot on the steel properties).

That said, on an EDC knife I really just need it sharp enough to slice paper efficiently. Rarely are my knives meeting hard wood or other tough materials.

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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby Vivi » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:07 pm

zhyla wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:45 pm
Vivi wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:16 pm
what's confusing about it? polishing to high grits isn't necessary for shaving sharpness.
Based on my experience with sandpaper and sharpening plane irons and straight razors I don't see what I consider shaving sharp until 1200 grit. And I sharpen the straight razors to around 5000 grit (2000 will get the job done, but the finer the better for actual shaving). I fully understand that when most people say "shaving sharp" they don't mean its in ideal condition to use on your face. My definition in this context is just that it takes hair off my arm reliably.

Obviously, I haven't used medium SM stones for plane irons or straight razors as that's not practical. But I'm wondering if there's something more at play here like the sharpening dust stuck in the stones doing more polishing than you'd expect for the coarseness of the stone.
Bloke wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:11 pm
I think we tend to over think sharpening sometimes and complicate it for no good reason. I find if I concentrate on a clean burr free apex sharpness just happens.
Certainly there is an over-focus on mirror edges in the knife community. That's not my thing. My kitchen knives I usually only take up to 600 grit -- the toothy edge on a thin blade gets the job done well.
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:06 am
Depending how often or hard you use your knives, I find the polished edge to be pointless to try and maintain. That's a lot of work to get there, just to get easily scuffed up. If it's just a display knife or pocket jewelry then I could see the appeal.
Polished bevels are not just for looks. In the literal sense the more polished the edge is by definition the sharper the edge is. It's the same thing. And in theory the sharper the edge is the longer it should hold an edge (how much may depend a lot on the steel properties).

That said, on an EDC knife I really just need it sharp enough to slice paper efficiently. Rarely are my knives meeting hard wood or other tough materials.
Shaving sharp on a pocket knife, and an ideal straight razor edge, are different beasts.

For me, when I say shaving sharp, I mean a knife I can lightly pass across my arm and it effortlessly removes hair. A step below that it scrape shaving, where one needs to apply some extra force. A step above is sending hairs flying without contacting the skin going in either direction, which I find obtainable in PE or SE with the brown rods.

It's possible that over the years my medium stones have become smoother from wear. But I can still obtain scrape shaving sharpness from my brand new diamond sharpmaker stones, and shaving sharp to hair popping sharp off a DMT XX Coarse.

I can get good results with 800 grit sandpaper. I keep a sheet of it folded up in my wallet for field sharpening. PE or SE, I can get an edge that shaves off it.

Regarding polishing....polishing bevels is, in my eyes, a waste of time. Polishing the apex is not if you use dictates a polished edge. Your straight razors being a perfect example. The only times I think polishing the entire bevel is worth it is if it's cosmetic, such as a high end custom made to appeal to the eye, or if you're worried about corrosion. Polishing the bevel slows corrosion near the point where it matters most - the edge.

This isn't to knock anyone that likes a polished bevel, this is merely why I don't use them anymore. I'll run the back bevel at 300 grit and take the microbevel up as high as I want for a particular knife, like you can see in my Manix XL and Police 4 pictures I've shared. When the microbevel gets thick or I need to repair damage, it saves a tremendous amount of time working on just one stone for the full bevel width and saving my grit progression for solely the apex.

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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby Sharp Guy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:36 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:39 pm
Uhhh, haven't you heard? I'M the only person here that uses their knives!

:cool:
:)
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby Enactive » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:37 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:39 pm
Sharp Guy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:05 pm
Call it pocket jewelry if you want but I bet my knives get used as much as yours. Not sure why you seem to think you're the only one who uses their knives.
Uhhh, haven't you heard? I'M the only person here that uses their knives!

:cool:

LOL! :p

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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby murphjd25 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:57 pm

I only use the brown stones. I like a nice bite on my edges!
Josh

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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby Tims » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:11 am

All this talk of fancy stones.
Where I’m from, you haven’t ‘arrived’ in the knife scene until you can achieve hair popping edges from a humble house brick, stropped on the bottom of the wifes feet.

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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby TkoK83Spy » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:21 am

Sharp Guy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:05 pm
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:06 am
Depending how often or hard you use your knives, I find the polished edge to be pointless to try and maintain. That's a lot of work to get there, just to get easily scuffed up. If it's just a display knife or pocket jewelry then I could see the appeal.
Thing is, at least for me, if I'm going to take the time to reprofile on my Hapstone I'm going to do it how I want it. Don't really care what ol' Rick thinks. So I usually go all the way through to the really fine stones and then polishing tapes. When that's all done I might run it through some hardwood to deburr and use it as is. Or, I might give it a few passes on the Sharpmaker brown stones at 40° to give it a little more tooth. It cuts like a laser either way. Future touch ups are on the medium and sometimes even the fine stones. I might even use the UF stones if I'm feeling really wild but that's rare. I do like how they cut off the mediums. So lately I've been stopping there. I don't care if the polished bevel gets scuffed up. Kind of surprising for me considering how OCD I am about things but it bothers me 0. Other than the business part of the edge, there is no trying to maintain it. You'd drive yourself crazy that way. I just use it and keep touching up the micro bevel until it's not so micro anymore. Then I put it on the Hapstone and start over.

Call it pocket jewelry if you want but I bet my knives get used as much as yours. Not sure why you seem to think you're the only one who uses their knives.
Woah Pat!! I'm not really sure why I'm being attacked here :confused:

I think MOST people that take the time to get a polished edge, tend to like the way it looks and like to keep it that way. Nothing wrong with that, as I previously stated my opinion on that above with Soc Monki. I love the way a polished finished looks, but I'm one of those OCD people that wouldn't be able to deal with it looking scratched up after taking all that time (I've done it once with my M390 Para 3 and it drove me crazy after using it for a couple days) Not only that, but I've also come to realize with my improved sharpening skills that it really didn't cut any better than a toothier edge off the brown stones that took A LOT less time.

I never said you or anybody else doesn't use their knives as much as me! Those words never came off of my fingers, I was only stating my opinion on the polished edge and the amount of work it takes it takes. I know not everybody has the opportunity to use theirs as often as I do because of my job, but never said people don't use theirs! I myself have a few knives that are more pocket jewelry, I'm not ashamed to admit it...I just haven't taken the time to give them the polished finished.
Currently have 17 :spyder: 's in 13 different steels.

-Rick

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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby Enactive » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:33 am

Tims wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:11 am
All this talk of fancy stones.
Where I’m from, you haven’t ‘arrived’ in the knife scene until you can achieve hair popping edges from a humble house brick, stropped on the bottom of the wifes feet.
LOLZ!

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Vivi
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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby Vivi » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:05 am

Tims wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:11 am
All this talk of fancy stones.
Where I’m from, you haven’t ‘arrived’ in the knife scene until you can achieve hair popping edges from a humble house brick, stropped on the bottom of the wifes feet.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=mSt2mCWGFII
:D :D :D

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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby Pelagic » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:38 am

Thought about that video immediately, ha
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

mpgtsm
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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby mpgtsm » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:01 pm

Thanks for posting that video. I think it made the point very well.

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Re: Just the brown SM flats

Postby BLUETYPEII » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:33 pm

I could use a couple of pointers. I can get my knives arm shaving sharp but I’m not getting an edge anywhere near to hair splitting.

I have an old Norton wet stone that I used before I bought the Sharpmaker. I only use the Sharpmaker now. I have the brown medium stones and white fine stones. I watched the Spyderco DVD and some YouTube videos. I’m getting better slowly but sometimes I just don’t get any results, maybe I’m just not hitting the edge on some knives.
Last edited by BLUETYPEII on Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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