Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

[vivi]

There is a lot of mystery surrounding how to sharpen serrated knives. I know that serrated knives would enjoy more popularity if people understood how to sharpen them as universally as plain edges.

This topic will serve as a simple, up to date list of tips for sharpening your serrated knives.

I will constantly be updating this first post, so that you won't have to read through the entire thread to absorb all the advice. In addition to a text list, there will be tutorial videos at the end of the post.

July 2020 update

Click here to see a quick two minute video on how I sharpen my serrated knives.


Tips For Sharpening Serrated Knives

1. Clean your rods. Clean stones are important to achieve the best edge. With serrated knives this is even more true, because the small contact area on your stones mean they get clogged extremely fast. I use barkeepers friend and a scouring pad between sharpening sessions, and I keep a wet rag with me while I sharpen. I wipe the rods down once a minute, or rotate to a fresh corner. Any time you can see bits of metal on the corners of your rods, they are giving you less than optimal performance.

2. Use one pass across the entire edge rather than sharpening individual serrations. The latter is a waste of time, taking exponentially longer to produce an edge that's no better than using one smooth swipe like a plain edge knife.

3. Be very careful not to drag your tip off the corner of the sharpmaker stones. Stop just shy of the tip. Once you're happy with the edge, you can switch to the flats of the stones and work on the plain edge portion at the tip. Otherwise you'll quickly round it off and decrease the functionality of your knife.

4. The wide bevel acts as a built in angle guide. On Spydercos serrated knives, the bevel on the presentation side is very wide. What this enables you to do is rock the knife back and forth on your stone and use tactile feedback to feel for the right angle. You can feel the edge click into place when its held at the right angle.

5. Try using alternating passes when you sharpen, with some strokes going heel to tip, and others going tip to heal. The theory is when you do this it makes it easier to hit the entire serration on both sides. (I do not use this method, but others have success with it.)

6. Use edge leading strokes. This minimizes bur formation.

7. Your serrated knife is chisel ground, which requires a different technique than a V grind. When I am grinding the back bevel, reprofiling a SE knife, or repairing heavy damage, I do nearly all my grinding on the presentation side rather than grinding both sides evenly like a plain edge knife. When I am doing typical sharpening strokes, I do around a 6:1 ratio, doing six strokes on the presentation side, then one shallow, light stroke on the back. When finishing the edge, I use a 2:1 ratio.

8. When peforming your deburring strokes on the back side, use a very shallow angle. Lay the back side flat to the stone, then tilt it up a few degrees. This helps maintain a thinner apex, which is where serrated edges get a lot of their impressive cutting ability from. Bear in mind any stroke you do on the back side is simply to debur. There is no reason to grind away at the back side.

9. Nearly all the serrated Spydercos I own came ground at 15 degrees per side. I have only seen one ground at 20 degrees, and none ground more obtuse than that.

10. You can sharpen at 15 degrees or 20 degrees, either angle works for knives ground at 15 degrees. Sharpening at 15 degrees takes a bit more time but provides superior cutting ability. Sharpening at 20 degrees is faster, gives you a stronger edge, but reduces cutting ability a bit. I sharpen the majority of mine at 15 degrees, with rough use knives / beaters getting a 20 degree edge.

11. If you sharpen at 20 degrees, I highly recommend grinding at 15 degrees with diamond / cbn rods periodically to maintain a thinner edge. You do not need to grind all the way to the apex. You just need to grind enough to thin the blade out behind the edge bevel. This will maintain the same level of performance over time rather than letting it drop as the edge thickens.

12. UNLIKE sharpening plain edged knives, you DO NOT follow the curve of the blade. Doing so will prevent you from hitting the length of the edge, because the angle of the stone will not match the angle of the serrations, and it won't get in between the ridges. Compare a serrated hawkbill, wharncliffe and drop point. Hold them side by side and look at the direction the serrations are ground. You'll see every serration is ground parallel to the last, meaning they all face exactly the same direction. The stroke you'll use to sharpen a hawkbill, therefore, is the same as the stroke you'll use to sharpen a drop point or a wharncliffe.

13. Always finish with a light touch. As a general rule of thumb when using the sharpmaker, you should be able to do your finishing strokes without moving the sharpmaker base at all, without securing it with your off hand, a clamp, etc. If it moves, you're pushing too hard. This is true for PE and SE, any blade shape, any steel, any grit rods. This ensures a crisper apex.

14. Serrated edges can be stropped. I use a typical strop, thin hard leather glued to a wooden block. To strop my SE knives, I liberally rub green buffing compound on the corner of my strop, then use that corner like a sharpmaker rod, except I use edge trailing strokes. I have heard of others using a leather boot lace under tension to strop SE. The serrated H1 knife I carry responds really well to a strop, so does the 420HC on my serrated Leatherman blades.

15. Some users here have reported excellent results from stropping with a dremel. I have not tried this myself, but the basic idea is to use a buffing wheel loaded with compound, set the dremel to the lowest setting, then use it to buff the edge in a way that the wheel spins away from the cutting edge.

If you prefer video format, this will show you most of what I discussed above. Bear in mind I was going a little quick and sloppy in the video compared to how I really sharpen.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ptmx1iJELhU

I'll be making a better video for this thread sometime this year. The info is alright but the presentation is awful.

[TkoK83Spy]

Well done Vivi, very helpful tips in there. You've helped me along the way with my SE sharpening and I've benefited greatly. This is even more in detail. Hopefully you can help sway the masses that are anti SE into giving them a chance!

[wrdwrght]

Much obliged, Vivi.

[The Meat man]

Thanks Vivi! Good idea and lots of great tips.
That's the first reaction for most people when they see my serrated knives - "How do you sharpen that?" And then it's funny to see their incredulity when I tell them that I sharpen them exactly like I do my "regular" knives.

I think if more people understood that it really isn't any harder to sharpen SE, it would be a lot more popular.

[Wartstein]

Thanks, Vivi, great info!

I knew your vid already before, tried your method with the just one sharpmaker rod, and prefer it over the method shown in the sharpmaker instructional DVD (which I just watched again, had already forgotten many of the things said there)

Actually some aspects of how Sal sharpens a serrated knife in this instr. DVD, confuse me a bit:

- He uses the 40 degree setting: As you wrote, and as I experienced with my Delica CE and now Endela SE, the 30 degree setting is the way to go if you want to maintain the factory edge (and not create some 40 degree microbevel) at least on a Spyderco SE knife

- He does the "deburring stroke" on a rod angled at 20 degrees (the point here is not what degree, but ANGLED quite a bit at all). As far as I understand, that way one just CAN NOT maintain the factory edge, and your way of utilizing the shallowest angle possible seems to be much more appropriate (and works better, tbh) (EDIT: Technically you could keep the factory edge using Sals method, but only of you manage really JUST to deburr and NOT to grind at all. Hard to do consistently imho... )

But, one thing to be aware of when using "your" deburring method (= a very shallow angle): If one likes to keep the blade pretty and shiny, it is important not to go too shallow, cause then one could scratch up the side of the blade a bit when deburring. I totally don´t mind that, I like knives that look and are used, but if one wants to avoid scratches: Do as Vivi said :Choose a very shallow angle, but not SO shallow that you might hit the spine / side of the blade).

Two things I took from the DVD:

- To slow down a bit when sharpening serrated edges (as opposed to plain edges)

- Very recently: To use the WHITE rods. I often took the browns, but what Sals says on the DVD sounds logic, and I´ll probably always take the whites from now on.

[Wartstein]

6. Use edge leading strokes. This minimizes bur formation.

Could you explain to me what is meant by an "edge leading stroke"?

[Bloke]

6. Use edge leading strokes. This minimizes bur formation.

Could you explain to me what is meant by an "edge leading stroke"?

Edge lead strokes cut from the apex towards the spine and minimise burr formation.

Edge trailing strokes cut from the spine towards the apex and maximise burr formation. :)

[Wartstein]

6. Use edge leading strokes. This minimizes bur formation.

Could you explain to me what is meant by an "edge leading stroke"?

Edge lead strokes cut from the apex towards the spine and minimise burr formation.

Edge trailing strokes cut from the spine towards the apex and maximise burr formation. :)

Thanks a lot! But to be honest: I still don't fully understand... :o

In my understanding: WHENEVER you cut something, obviously you start with the apex and move the knife into the material (so in a way the material goes towards the spine...)

Could you maybe as an example tell me: When sharpening on a sharpmaker rod, how exactly do edge leading strokes look like, and how edge trailing?

[vivi]

Thanks, Vivi, great info!

I knew your vid already before, tried your method with the just one sharpmaker rod, and prefer it over the method shown in the sharpmaker instructional DVD (which I just watched again, had already forgotten many of the things said there)

Actually some aspects of how Sal sharpens a serrated knife in this instr. DVD, confuse me a bit:

- He uses the 40 degree setting: As you wrote, and as I experienced with my Delica CE and now Endela SE, the 30 degree setting is the way to go if you want to maintain the factory edge (and not create some 40 degree microbevel) at least on a Spyderco SE knife

- He does the "deburring stroke" on a rod angled at 40 degrees (the point here is not what degree, but ANGLED quite a bit at all). As far as I understand, that way one just CAN NOT maintain the factory edge, and your way of utilizing the shallowest angle possible seems to be much more appropriate (and works better, tbh) (EDIT: Technically you could keep the factory edge using Sals method, but only of you manage really JUST to deburr and NOT to grind at all. Hard to do consistently imho... )

But, one thing to be aware of when using "your" deburring method (= a very shallow angle): If one likes to keep the blade pretty and shiny, it is important not to go too shallow, cause then one could scratch up the side of the blade a bit when deburring. I totally don´t mind that, I like knives that look and are used, but if one wants to avoid scratches: Do as Vivi said :Choose a very shallow angle, but not SO shallow that you might hit the spine / side of the blade).

Two things I took from the DVD:

- To slow down a bit when sharpening serrated edges (as opposed to plain edges)

- Very recently: To use the WHITE rods. I often took the browns, but what Sals says on the DVD sounds logic, and I´ll probably always take the whites from now on.

Great questions, friend.

Obviously I cannot speak for the man himself, but I can make a guess based on what I've read.

Ehen discussing sharpening serrations, Sal seems to be a fan of the extra durability the 20 degree setting offers. Additionally, it is the quickest way to make a dull serrated knife sharp again.

If you aren't cutting materials that damages the 15 degree edge, you can get better performance that way in my opinion. However, if you're doing things that is damaging your edge, 20 degrees could mean less work for you, because that edge may hold up without taking damage.

As for the deburring strokes, he may prefer the simplicity of using the sharpmaker similar to how you use it for plain edged knives. Holding it vertically and using two stones may be quicker and more intuitive for some people?

While my deburring method does maintain a thinner angle, there is a degree of guess work getting the right angle on the back side. Do I think this matters? Nope. There isn't a true bevel on that side, so with how thin the "edge" is on the back, I don't think being off a few degrees matters as much.

Sal's method has its place. If you want to take a dull serrated knife and make it sharp quickly, its a great way to do that. Maybe I can make a mention of this in my original post.

Again, bear in mind this is all conjecture based on what I perceive to be the benefits of his style. Also, I've never actually watched the sharpmaker DVD, so there's that. My sharpening techniques are basically a result of trial and error over the years.

[vivi]

6. Use edge leading strokes. This minimizes bur formation.

Could you explain to me what is meant by an "edge leading stroke"?

Edge lead strokes cut from the apex towards the spine and minimise burr formation.

Edge trailing strokes cut from the spine towards the apex and maximise burr formation. :)

Thanks a lot! But to be honest: I still don't fully understand... :o

In my understanding: WHENEVER you cut something, obviously you start with the apex and move the knife into the material (so in a way the material goes towards the spine...)

Could you maybe as an example tell me: When sharpening on a sharpmaker rod, how exactly do edge leading strokes look like, and how edge trailing?

Edge leading strokes use a motion like you are trying to slice slivers off your stones with your knife.

Edge trailing strokes use the opposite motion, you are running the edge along the stones "backwards," with the edge moving away from the stone.

If you try to slice into a stone, it sharpens your knife. If you try to slice into a strop, it slices the strop :) Same thing with sandpaper.

Video demonstration of edge trailing - https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ptmx1iJELhU&t=3m46s

Skip to the very beginning of the video to see edge leading. https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ptmx1iJELhU

[Evil D]

Edge leading = into the edge/towards the blade
Edge trailing = away from the edge/away from the blade


None of mine have come at 30, all of my SE blades hit the shoulder at 30. They all seem to be more like 35ish inclusive. My leaf Caribbean also never hits the edge at the tip even at 40, I have to sharpen the tip freehand. I think that one has to do with how much the blade sweeps up at the tip.

[vivi]

Edge leading = into the edge/towards the blade
Edge trailing = away from the edge/away from the blade


None of mine have come at 30, all of my SE blades hit the shoulder at 30. They all seem to be more like 35ish inclusive. My leaf Caribbean also never hits the edge at the tip even at 40, I have to sharpen the tip freehand. I think that one has to do with how much the blade sweeps up at the tip.

I can recall reading before that you haven't ever owned a 30 degree inclusive serrated Spyderco, and I'm pretty sure we've even had some of the same models in our possession. I wonder what the cause of that is? I've had a variety of serrated models over the years and the only one that came at 20/40 was my first run black Tasman Salt.

[Evil D]

Edge leading = into the edge/towards the blade
Edge trailing = away from the edge/away from the blade


None of mine have come at 30, all of my SE blades hit the shoulder at 30. They all seem to be more like 35ish inclusive. My leaf Caribbean also never hits the edge at the tip even at 40, I have to sharpen the tip freehand. I think that one has to do with how much the blade sweeps up at the tip.

I can recall reading before that you haven't ever owned a 30 degree inclusive serrated Spyderco, and I'm pretty sure we've even had some of the same models in our possession. I wonder what the cause of that is? I've had a variety of serrated models over the years and the only one that came at 20/40 was my first run black Tasman Salt.

No idea. I think my Dfly Salt does hit 30 but both these Caribbeans and my Autonomy hit the shoulder of the bevel at 30. I'm pretty sure I'm holding as close to 90 as possible. I've even tried doing it with a mirror in front of the Sharpmaker to get a different view.

[ZrowsN1s]

Great thread Vivi. You forgot the most important step (although you implied it) buy a sharpmaker. :D

[Wartstein]

Edge trailing strokes cut from the spine towards the apex and maximise burr formation. :)

Edge leading strokes use a motion like you are trying to slice slivers off your stones with your knife.

Edge trailing strokes use the opposite motion, you are running the edge along the stones "backwards," with the edge moving away from the stone.

Edge leading = into the edge/towards the blade
Edge trailing = away from the edge/away from the blade

Thanks, now I get it!! :)

My mistake in thinking was: I figured, you were talking not (only) about sharpening strokes, bu actual cuts (into something)
In THAT case edge trailing would make not too much sense, right? :) (just for spreading butter on bread or something like this... )

[Wartstein]

Great questions, friend.

Obviously I cannot speak for the man himself, but I can make a guess based on what I've read.

Ehen discussing sharpening serrations, Sal seems to be a fan of the extra durability the 20 degree setting offers. Additionally, it is the quickest way to make a dull serrated knife sharp again.

If you aren't cutting materials that damages the 15 degree edge, you can get better performance that way in my opinion. However, if you're doing things that is damaging your edge, 20 degrees could mean less work for you, because that edge may hold up without taking damage.

As for the deburring strokes, he may prefer the simplicity of using the sharpmaker similar to how you use it for plain edged knives. Holding it vertically and using two stones may be quicker and more intuitive for some people?

While my deburring method does maintain a thinner angle, there is a degree of guess work getting the right angle on the back side. Do I think this matters? Nope. There isn't a true bevel on that side, so with how thin the "edge" is on the back, I don't think being off a few degrees matters as much.

Sal's method has its place. If you want to take a dull serrated knife and make it sharp quickly, its a great way to do that. Maybe I can make a mention of this in my original post.

Again, bear in mind this is all conjecture based on what I perceive to be the benefits of his style. Also, I've never actually watched the sharpmaker DVD, so there's that. My sharpening techniques are basically a result of trial and error over the years.

Thanks again, Vivi, really appreciate all your helpull replies and posts!

If it is like you say, and Sal is "a fan of the extra durability the 20 degree setting offers": Why then aren´t the factory SE edges ground in 20 inclusive (but more acute)?
Maybe because Sal wants to leave the decision to the customer, if he or she wants to keep the more acute factory angle, or mirobevel / reprofile the knife to 20 inclusive...

I have not yet sharpened often enough using your deburring method to be able to form a final opinion. But I am almost certain, that it does not matter how shallow exactly the deburring strokes are (and that it does not matter if the angle differs a bit from time to time).

[Wartstein]

None of mine have come at 30, all of my SE blades hit the shoulder at 30. They all seem to be more like 35ish inclusive. My leaf Caribbean also never hits the edge at the tip even at 40, I have to sharpen the tip freehand. I think that one has to do with how much the blade sweeps up at the tip.

Funny. Admittedly I have only two (partly) serrated Spydies (Delica CE and Endela SE);
Though I did never check with a Sharpie where the stones exactly hit, both blades get sharp real quick on the 30 degree setting. So I guess they must be ground at (very close to) 15 degrees inclusive..

[vivi]

Great questions, friend.

Obviously I cannot speak for the man himself, but I can make a guess based on what I've read.

Ehen discussing sharpening serrations, Sal seems to be a fan of the extra durability the 20 degree setting offers. Additionally, it is the quickest way to make a dull serrated knife sharp again.

If you aren't cutting materials that damages the 15 degree edge, you can get better performance that way in my opinion. However, if you're doing things that is damaging your edge, 20 degrees could mean less work for you, because that edge may hold up without taking damage.

As for the deburring strokes, he may prefer the simplicity of using the sharpmaker similar to how you use it for plain edged knives. Holding it vertically and using two stones may be quicker and more intuitive for some people?

While my deburring method does maintain a thinner angle, there is a degree of guess work getting the right angle on the back side. Do I think this matters? Nope. There isn't a true bevel on that side, so with how thin the "edge" is on the back, I don't think being off a few degrees matters as much.

Sal's method has its place. If you want to take a dull serrated knife and make it sharp quickly, its a great way to do that. Maybe I can make a mention of this in my original post.

Again, bear in mind this is all conjecture based on what I perceive to be the benefits of his style. Also, I've never actually watched the sharpmaker DVD, so there's that. My sharpening techniques are basically a result of trial and error over the years.

Thanks again, Vivi, really appreciate all your helpull replies and posts!

If it is like you say, and Sal is "a fan of the extra durability the 20 degree setting offers": Why then aren´t the factory SE edges ground in 20 inclusive (but more acute)?
Maybe because Sal wants to leave the decision to the customer, if he or she wants to keep the more acute factory angle, or mirobevel / reprofile the knife to 20 inclusive...

I have not yet sharpened often enough using your deburring method to be able to form a final opinion. But I am almost certain, that it does not matter how shallow exactly the deburring strokes are (and that it does not matter if the angle differs a bit from time to time).

You're probably right about the deburring strokes. The "edge" is so narrow I doubt the angle used on that side makes much of a difference.

As for the angle the Spyderco factory uses, I'd imagine they go with 15 degrees so a user can easily touch up at 20 degrees for efficient sharpening. A lot of folks probably don't want to spend the time to grind away at 15 degrees, and this gives them a fast option for sharpening their knife.

[boing]

12. UNLIKE sharpening plain edged knives, you DO NOT follow the curve of the blade.

This right here is worth the price of admission. I have a couple rarely used combo blades, but I just bought a full serrated as a trial for EDC. I probably never would have noticed the orientation of the teeth, and just sharpened away with the usual swoop. Thanks.

[Wartstein]

....
Again, bear in mind this is all conjecture based on what I perceive to be the benefits of his style. Also, I've never actually watched the sharpmaker DVD, so there's that. ....

Thought I´d post a link to the sharpmaker instructional dvd on youtube, could be interesting for some.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LBDnJv5B58&t=2486s
Many things Sal says about sharpening serrations match exactly what you state, but one can also watch his method which differs a little from yours as discussed already (I personally, as far as I can say by now, clearly prefer your method tbh).
The "serration part" starts at 19:20 (actually there is an index in the video description); also very interesting what Sal says about 40 vs 30 degrees, starting at around 16:40. Seems like you are totally right: Spyderco knives in general and serrated ones specifically come in around 30 degrees inclusive (around 15 degrees for SE), mostly so that people can MAINTAIN a sharp edge on the FOURTY degree setting of the SM, and not necessarely to KEEP that 30 degrees (15 on SE).