Spyderco Forums

Many of us are already on board with a practical small folder as a mule. The Urban LW is sort of filling that roll, and I love the design of that knife. However, The question has to be asked as to whether or not the upcoming lil Native slip joint would be a better platform For a folding mule. This was certainly allow golden more direct control. What do you all think?

Sorry Doc but... NO ! I would rather move the LW Urban to Taichung.

Upcoming? Is the Slipjoint Lil Native even happening though? For some reason, I seem to remember hearing that it's not happening anymore. :confused:

As much as I love the Lil Native, I don't feel that it is the right platform for a folding Mule. I feel the same about the Urban. Spyderco isn't known for cutting corners and I would hate to see it happen with a folding Mule team series.

In my opinion, a folding Mule needs to be an all new model that is actually designed for testing steels. Or at least following the same design principles as the Fixed Blade Mule Team, just as a folder.

Golden is by far my favorite of the factories, so I'd be in for a golden knife as a mule platform. The current appeal to the Urban is price and legality in multiple countries. It IS also a very thin knife, and a pretty solid design. Im a fan of the lil Native platform as well, if for different reasons.

I don't think a small slip joint is a good platform for testing steels. Some people would buy it out of curiosity, but how much could we learn? They couldn't be pushed to the limits like a fixed blade.

BornIn1500 wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:02 pm

I don't think a small slip joint is a good platform for testing steels. Some people would buy it out of curiosity, but how much could we learn? They couldn't be pushed to the limits like a fixed blade.

The fixed blades aren’t selling though.

BornIn1500 wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:02 pm

I don't think a small slip joint is a good platform for testing steels. Some people would buy it out of curiosity, but how much could we learn? They couldn't be pushed to the limits like a fixed blade.

Plenty of people would be interested in trying out steels if they came in a package that was EDC-legal for them. And lots of people have situations where carrying a fixed blade Mule just isn't feasible. The best "real world" feedback/testing is going to come from something that actually gets carried and used constantly.

I prefer the urban but given that Spyderco is always reluctant to move a knife from one country to another I’m asking about an alternative. Some people like fixed blade knives for testing but what do you learn in real world by testing in this way? For me the better real-world test is in a knife that I actually will use on a day today basis for all sorts of things, some of which I should do and some I should not do.

Would there be any advantage or disadvantage of the urban over the lil native or vice versa as a test platform fir various steels?

One huge advantage The urban has is price. It is half the price of the lil native. If they could make a lil native lightweight at about the same price point that would be interesting indeed.

The problem I see with just choosing an existing model for this, is that it will essentially be deduced to sprint runs of that knife. The idea of testing steel will probably get thrown out the window pretty quick when everyone is more focused on the handle colors. Will everyone be satisfied with just black as a handle? Or will we have a thread for every version announced clamoring about what color it should be?

Spyderco is a very innovative company. It's honestly kind of frustrating to see so many requests for them to just settle for mediocrity. They're more than capable of designing a purpose built folding Mule team knife.

I hate to sound like the overly negative one here, because I would love to see a folding Mule team knife. I just really don't want to see a bunch of, what amount to, sprint runs released under the guise of them being used for testing purposes.

In my opinion, the Urban and Lil Native are both too small to provide worthwhile testing results anyway. Using the lines from the current fixed blade Mule team, it would work fine as a folder. Here is a crude drawing of what I mean.

I don't think changing FRN colors is very hard. Aren't the same molds used for all the colors?

Spyderco could easily just alter the colors slightly to indicate the different steels, essentially using the existing "sprint run" system to create a set of folding mules, using the UKPK (Golden) and Urban (Maniago). No new tooling requirements, no new procedures. Just use what they already have. If you look at the Urban sprint runs (K390, Elmax, AEB-L) it's pretty much already happening. They just have to keep on keeping on--and throw in some UKPK sprints too. I'd love to see something like 15v, but the truth is that it'd be an easy sell if they ran the UKPK in 204p, Cruwear, 20cv, or 10v, or the Urban in k294 or m390.

Oh, and I'd LOVE to see a Sleipner Urban. I really, really, really want to try out Sleipner in a thinner edge, to see if it's really as tough as my gut feeling (which is sadly based on much thicker edges with tougher grinds) is telling me, or if it's just the result of geometry in my LionSteel knives.

And ditto what Doc Dan said about price. Using existing tooling and procedures and running a relatively inexpensive pattern will make these "test" steels available to a much wider group of aficionados.

TomAiello wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:53 pm

Plenty of people would be interested in trying out steels if they came in a package that was EDC-legal for them.

I hear ya. I'm just saying I wouldn't consider it "testing" as much a plain curiosity. What could we really learn? Everybody reporting how many feet of cardboard it can cut? The purpose of mules will be lost.

No, changing color is not hard at all. Getting the forum to agree on a color is the hard part. Asking for forum input on colors each time would probably be counterproductive anyway.

It already sounds like you're just asking for sprint runs though and of two different models at that. Which one do we pretend is the Mule? :confused:

BornIn1500 wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:40 pm

TomAiello wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:53 pm

Plenty of people would be interested in trying out steels if they came in a package that was EDC-legal for them.

I hear ya. I'm just saying I wouldn't consider it "testing" as much a plain curiosity. What could we really learn? Everybody reporting how many feet of cardboard it can cut? The purpose of mules will be lost.

This is a LARGE reason why I think a folding mule team needs to be designed for its purpose. DESIGN INTENT MATTERS!!!
The Urban was not designed with the intention of it being a control platform for general performance testing. Sure it's cheap but why does that matter when it comes to steel performance? Are we after results or just the next trendy steel at a budget price point?

BornIn1500 wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:40 pm

TomAiello wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:53 pm

Plenty of people would be interested in trying out steels if they came in a package that was EDC-legal for them.

I hear ya. I'm just saying I wouldn't consider it "testing" as much a plain curiosity. What could we really learn? Everybody reporting how many feet of cardboard it can cut? The purpose of mules will be lost.

What's the difference in a 3.5 inch fixed blade vs a 2.5 inch folder when it comes to testing blade steel?

Is the point to test the steel in a laboratory fashion? Or to test it in an "in the wild" EDC format?

I feel like testing in a laboratory fashion is going to be done better by a much smaller number of people (who are making the knives for the purpose) or by manufacturers. If that's the goal you don't need runs of 600-1200 pieces. You just need runs of 5-10 pieces that you give out to people who will do controlled testing.

Honestly, I think the point of the Mule team is both of those things. It was a general purpose knife for consistently testing and evaluating the performance of different steels at the same time that Spyderco was testing and evaluating it themselves. I think with that there was hopes that the ELU's would provide feedback of these new steels and Spyderco would proceed with the steel from there.

Are you larger Fixed blade just does not get used by me nor by a lot of other people. What I do use on a day-to-day basis as a small folding knife. I am Not alone in this. Many times such a knife is the only one I’ll have with me. It will get used for all sorts of tasks. This allows me to actually test what the steel can do in the EDC role, as well as what to euxpect in other formats. I don’t cut yards of cardboard or rope. My usage varies. It’s interesting to see that one will cut yards of cardboard but will not go through other materials very well and on the other hand one will do for me with some materials and do well on cardboard. It also allows me to see the steel rolls or chips, or simply folds or bends.

We’ve had years of fixed mules. They were not popular enough to keep the project going. However if you look at the folding knives, come out in different steals such as elmax, K390, etc. they fly off the shelves. Some are bought up by collectors and some bought Up by scalpers. But most are bought by users. At least I think so.

I think that since Spyderco seems willing then we should give this a shot and see if it works. And I think that they could come out a different color handle shade for each different type of steel to keep things from being boring. The use of an existing model makes sense especially in the light weight configuration as we can have a cost kept down.

the UKPK, Urban, and Lil Native slip joints All makes sense because they’re legal most places and even in the UK. I would not mind Back lock, etc., at all. But I’m just trying to have a form by which the most people possible can participate.

I actually do carry Mules (and other fixed blades) quite regularly. But I understand that I live in a place where that's generally accepted, and that most places aren't like this. You see people around here carrying gear that would get a swat team called on them in a lot of places--and having traveled to those places I sympathize with knife people who live in them.

I think a wider range of EDC participation would make any mule style knife a lot more successful, by opening up a much wider audience. Plenty of people couldn't carry the FB mules and could carry a small folder, and by making it a 3" (or less) slip joint you can open up participation in the program to a ton of people in restrictive jurisdictions who otherwise wouldn't be able to play.

I wonder now if Spyderco has rendered its Mule Team Project obsolete.

Spyderco’s in-house metallurgical expertise has certainly grown since the project began, and perhaps user-feedback is no longer as critical as it once was (a measure of this criticality is Spyderco selling it directly to us at a really low price in relation to what we were getting).

Besides, steel junkies are presently finding joy in many more Spydie models than just the Mule FB. Varied and unusual steels have been offered in the PM2, the Military, the Manix, and, oh yeah, the Para3, not to forget Seki-City’s models, and, oh yeah again, the Urban. And Spyderco surely is getting user-feedback from them, even if highly anecdotal.

Why, then, are we looking for the next Mule platform? What am I missing?

wrdwrght wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:53 pm

I wonder now if Spyderco has rendered its Mule Team Project obsolete.

Spyderco’s in-house metallurgical expertise has certainly grown since the project began, and perhaps user-feedback is no longer as critical as it once was (a measure of this criticality is Spyderco selling it directly to us at a really low price in relation to what we were getting).

Besides, steel junkies are presently finding joy in many more Spydie models than just the Mule FB. Varied and unusual steels have been offered in the PM2, the Military, the Manix, and, oh yeah, the Para3, not to forget Seki-City’s models, and, oh yeah again, the Urban. And Spyderco surely is getting user-feedback from them, even if highly anecdotal.

Why, then, are we looking for the next Mule platform? What am I missing?

Yep, the PM2 has been a mule project since it was first made. :cool: Most just haven’t realised

standy99 wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:58 am

wrdwrght wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:53 pm

Besides, steel junkies are presently finding joy in many more Spydie models than just the Mule FB. Varied and unusual steels have been offered in the PM2, the Military, the Manix, and, oh yeah, the Para3, not to forget Seki-City’s models,

Yep, the PM2 has been a mule project since it was first made. :cool: Most just haven’t realised

Many of These knives are not legal in many places and are expensive, like the pm2.