Question re: military pricing

[lonerider1013]

With all due respect, wondering why the ,military is so much more than knives like the pm2? Both are popular so economy of scale isn't an issue. Yes the blade on the military is a bit longer but only by maybe an inch, and the lock is less complicated. They are made of the same materials...
In short, wondering why one is like 50 $ more? The military is an awesome knife, but I just wonder why it commands a premium -- beyond that people are willing to pay it obviously...

lonerider

[zhyla]

No idea.

[SG89]

Good question

[ladybug93]

be prepared to see some logical gymnastics. it’s the same with the shaman. some people are more than happy to justify the prices that don’t seem to make sense. honestly, i don’t understand most of the prices, but there are a few models that are well worth their cost.

at least there’s no argument that spyderco makes good products. and, to be fair, some other brands are asking higher prices despite known quality control issues. i’m not sure how they get away with it.

[vivi]

be prepared to see some logical gymnastics. it’s the same with the shaman. some people are more than happy to justify the prices that don’t seem to make sense. honestly, i don’t understand most of the prices, but there are a few models that are well worth their cost.

at least there’s no argument that spyderco makes good products. and, to be fair, some other brands are asking higher prices despite known quality control issues. i’m not sure how they get away with it.

Contoured G10 scales don't come cheap.

[Extra330SC]

With all due respect, wondering why the ,military is so much more than knives like the pm2? Both are popular so economy of scale isn't an issue. Yes the blade on the military is a bit longer but only by maybe an inch, and the lock is less complicated. They are made of the same materials...
In short, wondering why one is like 50 $ more? The military is an awesome knife, but I just wonder why it commands a premium -- beyond that people are willing to pay it obviously...

lonerider

Not so bad in relation to other products and goods! The same F250 4X4 King Ranch LB that was $52500 in 2003 is now over $90 grand! Bigger is more expensive? !? :confused:

James

[bearfacedkiller]

Both are popular so economy of scale isn't an issue. Yes the blade on the military is a bit longer but only by maybe an inch, and the lock is less complicated. They are made of the same materials...

lonerider

I don’t think that the Military sells even close to as well as the Para2.

I think the locks are probably similar to manufacture.

I understand why it costs more but not why it costs so much more. I just deal with it as i have a bunch of Militaries.

[The Deacon]

Back when the PM2 first came out, didn't Sal say its MSRP was the result of its price including a lower profit margin than any of Spyderco's other knives?

[ugaarguy]

be prepared to see some logical gymnastics. it’s the same with the shaman. some people are more than happy to justify the prices that don’t seem to make sense. honestly, i don’t understand most of the prices, but there are a few models that are well worth their cost.

at least there’s no argument that spyderco makes good products. and, to be fair, some other brands are asking higher prices despite known quality control issues. i’m not sure how they get away with it.

Contoured G10 scales don't come cheap.

The G10 handle, 20CV blade Griptilian is $178 MAP, or $9 less than the S30V Shaman. The KW exclusive Griptilian in M390 and Micarta is $170. Those have contoured and checkered scales. The Hogue produced Ritter RSK MK1-G2 with contoured plus sunburst patterned grip G10 scales, and M390 blade, is $153. It does make me wonder how Hogue is producing a knife of that quality, in the USA, with those materials, and those finishes, at such a low price.

Then, in contrast, the S30V / G10 Manix 2 is only $8 more than S30V / Noryl GTX (molded resin) Griptilian. Knife pricing is weird.

[ladybug93]

be prepared to see some logical gymnastics. it’s the same with the shaman. some people are more than happy to justify the prices that don’t seem to make sense. honestly, i don’t understand most of the prices, but there are a few models that are well worth their cost.

at least there’s no argument that spyderco makes good products. and, to be fair, some other brands are asking higher prices despite known quality control issues. i’m not sure how they get away with it.

Contoured G10 scales don't come cheap.

The G10 handle, 20CV blade Griptilian is $178 MAP, or $9 less than the S30V Shaman. The KW exclusive Griptilian in M390 and Micarta is $170. Those have contoured and checkered scales. The Hogue produced Ritter RSK MK1-G2 with contoured plus sunburst patterned grip G10 scales, and M390 blade, is $153. It does make me wonder how Hogue is producing a knife of that quality, in the USA, with those materials, and those finishes, at such a low price.

part of it is probably because you pay for a brand and hogue isn’t a known knife brand. however, that still doesn’t account for inconsistent pricing among models of the same brand.

[JD Spydo]

To get inside the of the heads of the people in Spyderco's marketing department is anybody's guess at this point. But I think it can all boil down to a time tested old saying or common sense cliche that my dear old, long departed, common sense gifted daddy used to say >> "It's Worth What Someone Will Pay For It". And with that said there does seem to be be a significant amount of knife buying people who do pay the price that the Great Spyder Factory put on the price tag.

When you consider what you're getting when purchasing a C-36 Military model and also considering that it's a GOLDEN, CO USA Earth model I can't even begin to make a case that the unit is overpriced>> or even disproportionately over-priced for that matter.

Not to mention the C-36 units that are made with SuperSteel blades>> but that's another issue all together. To me with the popularity of the Para2 and Para3 I would think it would be those models that would end up being disproportionately priced and models you could truly name your own price and get away with it.

And that last point I'll bring up is when you consider what a true-blue artisan knifemaker charges for a lot of the stuff they make and sell and compare the overall quality that Spyderco gives you with the Military model compared with custom, artisan made knives>>> Well I don't even have to think about it more than 15 seconds and I conclude that it's still a good buy IMO.

[ferider]

First of all, since most of us have multiple Spydercos, these knives are luxury goods, and luxury good pricing (e.g., your wife's favorite designer handbag) is not directly related to costs. And you can see that for example in the new s90v Shaman: there is no cost-based reason that it's priced much higher than the still available CPM S90V/CPM154 CF Manix 2. Luxury good pricing depends more on market perception and competition than on costs.

Competition: there are (a) many more PM2 than Military users out there. And (b), the PM2 competes with many other non-Spyderco knives in size, look, weight and function (e.g., the Griptilian), but the Military (in my opinion) is very much unique, wrt size, "carryability", blade thickness and shape, and available steels. Try to find another, non-Spyderco and mass-produced Supersteel 4" blade below 130g weight, and you will have to look long and hard. There are a couple out there (like the ZT0452), but they are priced similarly or higher.

Costs: comparing the Military to the PM2, I can see that the Military has higher manufacturing costs: blade is larger and takes more grinding, Pivot and clip are different from any other Spyderco (where they can be shared across, say, PM2, PM3, etc.), and finally, the Military lock is a different material than the other liner, while the two liners on the PM2 are both of the same stainless steel.

Roland.

[lonerider1013]

Good points 'i had not thought of these. Also altho I own a military and a pm2 had not realized how diff the pivot was.

[Albatross]

The cost of those massive G10 scales alone is quite high, which was discussed in the P4 thread, when it's price was questioned. Granted, the Military scales don't need to be exported, but it's still expensive.

Ferider made some very good points.

Spyderco hasn't been in the business of ripping it's customers off. It's already been noted that many other companies charge more for the same or similar quality/materials.

[Marulaghost]

It could be that due to the fact that the PM2 is legal in a lot more places because of it's shorter length that they can confidently make more of them and spread out the costs of manufacturing.
I doubt Spyderco makes as many militaries as it does PM2's.

[Doc Dan]

It also seems to me, and this is only one man's opinion, that there is a little more care in making the Military than there is in the PM2. They are both fine knives, but of those I have handled, the Military seems to be just a little better in the fit and finish department.

One thing I would add is that I have had 2 PM2's and gave one away. I would never part with my Military.

[JonLeBlanc]

First of all, since most of us have multiple Spydercos, these knives are luxury goods, and luxury good pricing (e.g., your wife's favorite designer handbag) is not directly related to costs. And you can see that for example in the new s90v Shaman: there is no cost-based reason that it's priced much higher than the still available CPM S90V/CPM154 CF Manix 2. Luxury good pricing depends more on market perception and competition than on costs.

Competition: there are (a) many more PM2 than Military users out there. And (b), the PM2 competes with many other non-Spyderco knives in size, look, weight and function (e.g., the Griptilian), but the Military (in my opinion) is very much unique, wrt size, "carryability", blade thickness and shape, and available steels. Try to find another, non-Spyderco and mass-produced Supersteel 4" blade below 130g weight, and you will have to look long and hard. There are a couple out there (like the ZT0452), but they are priced similarly or higher.

Costs: comparing the Military to the PM2, I can see that the Military has higher manufacturing costs: blade is larger and takes more grinding, Pivot and clip are different from any other Spyderco (where they can be shared across, say, PM2, PM3, etc.), and finally, the Military lock is a different material than the other liner, while the two liners on the PM2 are both of the same stainless steel.

Roland.

That's a good analysis

[Nate]

Sal has always been very forthright about pricing over the years. Spyderco uses a formula with relatively fixed margins, meaning what the product costs to produce plus the margin they need to ensure the company is profitable and can stay in business determines the price (msrp, wholesale, retail map, etc...).

It has also been noted that on certain high volume models, most notably the PM2, Spyderco is able to run a lower margin. This makes it hard to compare the price of the two directly as it isn't an apples to apples comparison.

After years of following the brand and its products, I don't feel it's naive to believe that Spyderco is an ethically run company that strives to do right by everyone involved. They treat their suppliers well, they treat their manufacturers well, they're empathetic to the challenges of their distributors and retailers, all while striving to ensure their product meets the quality we all expect. They have to manage all these relationships while also doing their level best to maintain a price that is also fair and competitive to their customers, who can always choose to not buy a given model or go with another brand.

The cynics can have their say, but I view the prices as fair. Spyderco is exactly the kind of company I want to support.

[GiftedMisfit]

The cynics can have their say, but I view the prices as fair. Spyderco is exactly the kind of company I want to support.

This^ is exactly how I feel. Well said Nate.

[Doc Dan]

The cynics can have their say, but I view the prices as fair. Spyderco is exactly the kind of company I want to support.

This^ is exactly how I feel. Well said Nate.

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