Z-CUT KNIVES review

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TomAiello
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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby TomAiello » Thu May 16, 2019 11:19 am

N. Brian Huegel wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 2:12 pm
Three edges: PlainEdge, SpyderEdge, and fully serrated. Two blade shapes: pointed and blunt.


What's the difference between SpyderEdge and fully serrated?

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sal
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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby sal » Thu May 16, 2019 11:27 am

Hi Tom,

The SpyderEdge is the normal "2 step" or 2 sized serrations that we normally use and the other is just a regular 1 sized tooth.

sal

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby The Deacon » Thu May 16, 2019 11:28 am

I've been looking at the photos in the Reveal 2 flyer. Hadn't noticed before, but find it interesting that Spyderco is using different serration patterns on the blunt and pointed versions of the Z-Cuts. Pointed tip version has regular Spyderedge serrations (2 small, 1 large, 2 small, 1 large) while the blunt tip version has all small serrations, something like the serrated version of the C27 Jess Horn.
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sal
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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby sal » Thu May 16, 2019 12:09 pm

We really didn't know where the market would end up so we decided to try a variety and see where it goes.

sal

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby Cscottsss » Thu May 16, 2019 1:32 pm

sal wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:09 pm
We really didn't know where the market would end up so we decided to try a variety and see where it goes.

sal
Sal, any idea on when these will be available? 3 months, 6, 12?

Thanks

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby Marulaghost » Thu May 16, 2019 2:05 pm

I feel like the blunt tip serrations will be great for bread and the spyderedge will be better for other food items. I'm planning on both versions personally

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby zhyla » Thu May 16, 2019 4:04 pm

Marulaghost wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:05 pm
great for bread
That was my initial thought, but then I looked at how short this knife is and I dunno, it doesn't make sense to me. I mean, you can cut bread with it, but most bread knives are 7"+ long.

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby jpm2 » Thu May 16, 2019 8:00 pm

Looks like I'll be trying all 4 versions.

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sal
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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby sal » Thu May 16, 2019 9:40 pm

We use the original protos quite a bit at our house. They should be out soon.

Thanx for the review and pics Brian.

sal

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby steelcity16 » Thu May 16, 2019 9:53 pm

zhyla wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 4:04 pm
Marulaghost wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:05 pm
great for bread
That was my initial thought, but then I looked at how short this knife is and I dunno, it doesn't make sense to me. I mean, you can cut bread with it, but most bread knives are 7"+ long.

Yeah, my short serrated kitchen knives only really get used for tomatoes, citrus, and dinner rolls. My bread knife is 13" long! And I use my 8" chefs knives for 99% of everything else in the kitchen. I will probably buy one to replace my short serrated knives. I do like the offset, which keeps your knuckles off the cutting board.
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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Fri May 17, 2019 2:47 am

Great review, thank you. This would make a great sandwich-making knife, I think.

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby fixall » Fri May 17, 2019 3:50 am

I'd really, really like to see an offset, 8" - 10"+ bread knife released. Personally, I've found that a scalloped blade works best on bread over standard serrations, but I'd love to see how a Spyderedge performs.

Other than a new 10" Chef knife (I'm really trying to swing one of the new Gyutos coming out) and a bread knife, I'm pretty set with kitchen knives... But I'm desperately trying to find a use for the Z-Cuts, lol.

I'm thinking I'll pick up at least one rounded, plain edge to use as a sandwich knife... But I tend to like tall blades for that because it gives me more stability when slicing cheese off the block.

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby zhyla » Fri May 17, 2019 12:28 pm

fixall wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 3:50 am
I'd really, really like to see an offset, 8" - 10"+ bread knife released. Personally, I've found that a scalloped blade works best on bread over standard serrations, but I'd love to see how a Spyderedge performs.
I rarely use our bread knife, I'm looking to kick it out of our drawer. Someone told me once that regular plain edge knives cut bread just fine and sure enough he was right. I mostly use a 7" santoku that I made for bread. For really tough crusts the serrations do help starting the cut though.

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby fixall » Sat May 18, 2019 3:16 am

zhyla wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:28 pm

I rarely use our bread knife, I'm looking to kick it out of our drawer. Someone told me once that regular plain edge knives cut bread just fine and sure enough he was right. I mostly use a 7" santoku that I made for bread. For really tough crusts the serrations do help starting the cut though.
I was of the same mind and got rid of my serrated bread knife years ago. But then I started working in a restaurant that made their own thick and crusty sourdough and peasant bread. They used Wusthof scalloped bread knives instead of serrated and I was shocked by the difference it made.

I’ll never use a standard, serrated bread knife in my kitchen again, but a scalloped bread knife has earned its place. I have a feeling that a Spyderedge bread knife would perform similarly to a scalloped knife.

I’d love the opportunity to find out.

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby N. Brian Huegel » Thu May 23, 2019 8:42 am

UPDATE: Frank Daily says that the Z-Cuts are about a month out from shipping.

brian

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby JacksonKnives » Thu May 23, 2019 9:08 am

N. Brian Huegel wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:42 am
UPDATE: Frank Daily says that the Z-Cuts are about a month out from shipping.

brian
Brian, any comments on cutting board contact with the plain edge? It looks like a constant arc rather than a flattened (tangent?) profile, which should make draw cuts more efficient. I'm curious how much you noticed any lack of contact right next to the heel with that curve and the little choil nub.
(My guess is that the choil is intended to design away from a sharp heel corner. I don't mind those but I've never used them as a "feature" for anything either.)

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sal
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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby sal » Thu May 23, 2019 10:14 am

Hi Jackson,

Yes, that's why we put the nub there. The amount of cutting edge that cannot hit the cutting board is very small, less than 1/2 inch. I felt that the safety provided by the nub was more important than the sharp corner.

Eric asked me to design a small utility kitchen knife that would perform well, be competitive with what was in the market, be inexpensive to produce and be marketed globally. I spent quite a while on the design and we made a number of prototypes to refine the pattern. Eric decided to use BD1N as he felt it would outperform the small utility kitchen knives currently available. I agree with his decision. The constant curve of the cutting edge keeps the single point contact penetration when cutting on a board. This requires less effort (pressure) to cut.

We thought about point or no point and SpyderEdge vs regular serrations and opted to try them all, in addition to colors. So the production offers many combinations and we'll see where that goes.

We make them in Golden because our customers like USA made and because we can.

sal

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby VashHash » Thu May 23, 2019 10:51 am

I'm definitely ready for some usa made kitchen knives from spyderco. I have a coworker who keeps bugging me about the release date.

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby JacksonKnives » Thu May 23, 2019 2:53 pm

sal wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 10:14 am
Yes, that's why we put the nub there. The amount of cutting edge that cannot hit the cutting board is very small, less than 1/2 inch. I felt that the safety provided by the nub was more important than the sharp corner.
...
The constant curve of the cutting edge keeps the single point contact penetration when cutting on a board. This requires less effort (pressure) to cut.
sal
That's what I expected, thanks for clarifying. (And good luck with the launch!)

Out of curiosity, any comment on production-scale heat treatment for BD1N on thin blades like this? (And for BD1N in general.)

I've seen some overseas-made chef's knives advertised as using BD1N basically hardened/tempered as hard as possible per Carpenter's datasheet, but then the final production run showed up at ~RC58. The US sales reps decided to list that as "after grinding" hardness in later runs. I'm curious how feasible it really is to get BD1N blades up to RC61-63.
It's pretty great steel in my experience even at RC58, FWIW.

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Re: Z-CUT KNIVES review

Postby N. Brian Huegel » Thu May 23, 2019 3:01 pm

Hi Jackson:

The short section of the edge that did not make contact with the board did not prove to be an issue, although I thought it would (seeing before using :eek: ). Push slicing, rock chopping, pull slicing, and vertical (up and down) chopping all performed very well. I attribute this to the constant edge arc (no flat spots) as Sal wrote about above. I discovered the importance of this principal in my personal sharpening (by hand with Norton waterstones) and customer (our store sharpening service) sharpening in the last ten years or so. In essence, if the edge has a smooth continuous convex arc (that is no flat spots) it always makes contact when one chops or slices as one’s hand naturally moves in an arc (regardless of moving forwards, backwards, or up and down) when using a knife on a cutting board. The need to have a continuous arc on the cutting edge is necessary to be the most effective and efficient. The continuous arc also provides a smooth pleasing motion that gives positive feedback and ease of cutting.

brian


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