Spyderco: Use VG10W? (VG10 with added Tungsten!)

[SpyderEdgeForever]

A few people in the past have mentioned that there is a stainless steel called VG10W. It is made in Japan and it is the VG10 formula, with added tungsten. Would this be a good improvement over current VG10 or would it be similiar and what blades would it be best used for?

[JD Spydo]

This is a most interesting subject to ponder. Because truly I'm kind of surprised that VG-10 has been Spyderco's mainline steel for Japan made units for as long as it has. You would think that the manufacturers of VG-10 would by now have come out with a modified, improved version of the steel. But I guess on the other hand this might be a shining example of the old cliche "If It Isn't Broke, Then Don't Try To Fix It">> and what I mean by that is most everyone I talk to still likes VG-10 and are satisfied with it for the most part.

I have a lot of Spyders with a wide range of different blade steels but for hard use and kitchen use I still find myself using many of my older Spyderco blades with VG-10 blade steel. I still like it better than S30V for a wide range of reasons. It is much easier to sharpen than many of the newer supersteels and it is far more inexpensive than some of the newer supersteels as well.

I love most of the newer supersteels and I really enjoy sharpening steels that are really difficult to sharpen. But there are still a lot of cutting jobs that I find VG-10 to be very good for. To get back to your question>> I've got a hunch that it has to do with costs and profit margin. Which I believe is the main reason we still have VG-10 as the mainline blade steel on the Japan made units. But I wouldn't be surprised to see a new kid on the block within the next year or two.

[Doc Dan]

I like VG-10 really well. It is well balanced and does not rust very easily. Nice. I have not heard of VG-10W.

Zknives says: "VG10W(Takefu) - Modification of the well known and popular VG-10 steel, with added Tungsten(W). Generally speaking that is a welcomed addition, because it is a good carbide former, improves hadrenability [sic] and all that. The only thing is it's just 0.40% of it, and given Tungsten's very high molar mass, 0.40% translates into very few Tungsten atoms to influence alloy properties, e.g. the same amount of Vanadium would have thrice the amount of the atoms. Anyway, it's there and it's helping, wot' make things worse. I suspect you will be very hard pressed to tell the difference in two identical knives, but still, it's an upgrade."
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/st ... hrn=1&gm=0 Here is a comparison of VG-10 and VG-10W.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

I like VG-10 really well. It is well balanced and does not rust very easily. Nice. I have not heard of VG-10W.

Zknives says: "VG10W(Takefu) - Modification of the well known and popular VG-10 steel, with added Tungsten(W). Generally speaking that is a welcomed addition, because it is a good carbide former, improves hadrenability [sic] and all that. The only thing is it's just 0.40% of it, and given Tungsten's very high molar mass, 0.40% translates into very few Tungsten atoms to influence alloy properties, e.g. the same amount of Vanadium would have thrice the amount of the atoms. Anyway, it's there and it's helping, wot' make things worse. I suspect you will be very hard pressed to tell the difference in two identical knives, but still, it's an upgrade."
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/st ... hrn=1&gm=0 Here is a comparison of VG-10 and VG-10W.

If they make a Stretch with it I will buy just to try it out.

[sal]

We're looking into it.

We used AUS-8W, made by Aichi, in the past. both pro's and cons.

sal

[p_atrick]

Excellent. I like Japanese steels as they are often designed to work well with waterstones. You don't necessarily get the extreme performance of some of the powdered tool steels, but I like the keen edge and the ease of sharpening.

Edit: spelling.

[The Mastiff]

It looks sort of like the small amount of tungsten is there for knifemaking/ heat treating purposes and not added performance. That is my guess anyways.

Joe

[SpyderEdgeForever]

We're looking into it.

We used AUS-8W, made by Aichi, in the past. both pro's and cons.

sal

That is very promising, thank you, sal. VG10 is one of my all-time favorite steel alloys. Before that, I was very much into quality 440 series, and then along came Spyderco introducing quality VG10 and I switched :)

[Wartstein]

Just happened to watch a (rather crazy.. :rolleyes: ) youtube vid where they compare VG10 to VG10W (and could not find a difference in the anyway not really meaningfull test - https://youtu.be/Wkw2oQk8tEw)

Anyway, this is the first time I´ve ever even heard of that "modified" VG10 and when searching for it I came across this thread from 2019.

Any news on this? Or does anyone know if VG10W has shown to offer a noticeable performance improvement over "just" VG10 yet? (To be clear: I REALLY like VG10 in its current composition. I am just curious)

/ EDIT: And I sure hope SpyderEdgeForever will return someday... :) (He started the thread)

[Deadboxhero]

Just happened to watch a (rather crazy.. :rolleyes: ) youtube vid where they compare VG10 to VG10W (and could not find a difference in the anyway not really meaningfull test - https://youtu.be/Wkw2oQk8tEw)

Anyway, this is the first time I´ve ever even heard of that "modified" VG10 and when searching for it I came across this thread from 2019.

Any news on this? Or does anyone know if VG10W has shown to offer a noticeable performance improvement over "just" VG10 yet? (To be clear: I REALLY like VG10 in its current composition. I am just curious)

/ EDIT: And I sure hope SpyderEdgeForever will return someday... :) (He started the thread)

There will be no noticable difference in performance, there is not enough W to do anything significant neither would more tungsten be desired with the VG10 combination of elements.

The hardness was not even changed, its still at 59rc.

The folks at Fallkniven were under the impression that tungsten being a strong, dense metal may have some benefits for the edge.

I feel however that is a oversimplification of what elements do inside the steel.

[Sumdumguy]

I'm good with plain old VG-10.

[JuPaul]

Just happened to watch a (rather crazy.. :rolleyes: ) youtube vid where they compare VG10 to VG10W (and could not find a difference in the anyway not really meaningfull test - https://youtu.be/Wkw2oQk8tEw)

Anyway, this is the first time I´ve ever even heard of that "modified" VG10 and when searching for it I came across this thread from 2019.

Any news on this? Or does anyone know if VG10W has shown to offer a noticeable performance improvement over "just" VG10 yet? (To be clear: I REALLY like VG10 in its current composition. I am just curious)

/ EDIT: And I sure hope SpyderEdgeForever will return someday... :) (He started the thread)

I just watched that video a few days ago (those guys are nuts, but pretty funny). And yeah, based on that review, it seems like in actual use most people won't notice any difference. Not like Bd1 vs Bd1n where users report a big improvement in edge retention. But who knows what Spyderco might be able to do with it!

[TomAiello]

Isn't Spy27 a modification of VG-10?

[Pancake]

Isn't Spy27 a modification of VG-10?

Kinda, sorta. Sal's vision was to create american VG-10 like steel. They are similar in composition, but still different enough. And SPY is made with CPM process, so it is finer than VG-10.

VG-10 W is literally VG-10 with some tungsten sprinkled on top of it. From user perspective, there is not enough tungsten to make a difference. IMO, there would me more difference if you had VG-10 on 61 HRC vs on 59 HRC....