Spyderco Forums

The Deacon wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2019 10:08 am

Will say that I can't recall ever seeing an OTF auto in a movie or TV show.

just from the 2000s, and off the top of my head... :o

Bullet to the Head (2013) main character' knife is a Halo V OTF
John Wick and John Wick II, Keanu Reeves' main knife is a Microtech OTF :rolleyes:
Irreversible (2002) the bad guy uses an OTF in the most intense/infamous scene
The Dark Knight, the Joker use an OTF in the bank robbery scene
Atomic Blonde (2017), Charlize Theron beats up a bad guy with his own OTF knife :D
IT (2017) where Henry unboxes a green OTF
Olympus Has Fallen (2013) where the main bad guy carries two OTF Microtechs :eek:
"Spartan" with Val Kilmer, a $500 Severtech Spartan OTF is used to peel an apple :cool:
Burn Notice, prominently features a Benchmade Infidel

on the TV show "24" Jack Bauer uses a Microtech OTF knife several times, it's his preferred EDC folder
on the TV show "Strike Back" several episodes feature a CRKT M21 as well as different OTFs from different brands

SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2019 11:34 am

1 What steel would you prefer, out of the presently-available steel alloys?
2 Would you want the handle system to be FRN or G10 or something else like reinforced aluminum alloy?
3 What blade shape would best suit it? Perhaps a full flat or a saber ground type thing?

1) Something stainless for EDC, probably. S110v would work for me. Or s90v. I'd personally rather have K390, but I think it wouldn't be as good for sales.

2) I'm not sure what the considerations for the mechanism are. Most OTFs are metal boxes, which might be necessary because flex in the box could be bad for the mechanism? Basically, I don't have a real preference.

3) I'd prefer FFG and single edge (for EDC use) but I know that's probably less popular.

The Deacon wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2019 10:08 am

Will say that I can't recall ever seeing an OTF auto in a movie or TV show.

We must not watch the same movies. Live and Let Die, The Punisher, A Bullet to the Head, The Specialist, Olympus Has Fallen, Men In Black all have OTF autos shown in them, and that's just off the top of my head.

Microtech Is the reference on this type.

The ultratech Is the knife.

Wonder if Spyderco Is able to do anything better, to make the world even better. I have a lot of MT and trust me,they are very very good.

yablanowitz wrote: ↑

Sun May 05, 2019 8:24 pm

The Deacon wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2019 10:08 am

Will say that I can't recall ever seeing an OTF auto in a movie or TV show.

We must not watch the same movies. Live and Let Die, The Punisher, A Bullet to the Head, The Specialist, Olympus Has Fallen, Men In Black all have OTF autos shown in them, and that's just off the top of my head.

Whiskey Cavalier - Saw an OTF on several of the episodes.

My favorite OTF is still the German Air Crew Knife (aka German Paratrooper Knife), a gravity OTF designed to be used. I first saw one in David Steele's book "Secrets of Modern Knife Fighting" back in the mid 1970's. He referenced a German film "Knife in the Water," which showed the knife. I suffered through several hours of black and white German drama and subtitles when that movie was shown on PBS just to see a few seconds of it in action (this was back in the day, before we got our first top-loading VHS recorder). Once I saw it, though, I was officially obsessed.

In the early 1980's I was stationed at NSA and met a radar intercept guy who had been stationed in Augsburg. He told me about a shorter commercial version of that knife with a plastic handle and mentioned he was going back to Germany for a visit. He brought one back for me and I was stoked!

I later added two full-sized versions with plastic handles to my collection from friends who were issued them during their service with the West German Army. Ultimately, I found a genuine Type II version manufactured around 1942 and completed my quest.

This knife is a true gravity knife, so the blade is not spring driven. The Type II and later knives are also unique in that they are designed to be easily field stripped without tools for cleaning and maintenance. Just depress a spring tab, pull the bolster off, and the two handle halves rotate on the shackle axis to expose the inside of the channel. Pop the blade out and the knife is broken down to four parts and is fully accessible for cleaning.

The design of this knife was so cool it was actually copied by the British SOE (though very few of those were ever made) and, as noted above, was modernized for issue to the West German Army for decades after WWII.

Since it is not spring driven, the lock-up on this knife is very solid and it is engineered to hold up to real use.

When I ran Masters of Defense and BlackHawk Blades, I used to do warranty repair service on MOD's production version of the Jeff Harkins Triton double-action OTF. It was a great design, reasonably well made by MOD's manufacturer, but like any double-action OTF, it was extremely susceptible to dirt and debris. It also did not hold up well to hard use. Fixing scores of those to bring them back to life really helped me appreciate the elegant simplicity of the German Gravity Knife.

With all that said, I also own a fair number of single and double-action OTFs--from my first "NATO Automatic" that I smuggled back from Acuna, Mexico in my shoe to state-of-the-art Hogue OTFs (another study in elegant simplicity). I love them, but I don't carry them.

Stay safe,

Mike

Good write up Mike.

I have come to appreciate the ease of use, IMHO, of an OTF. 75% of the time I carry an OTF as my EDC. A Lighting for working in the yard, a Titan D/E bayonet point or my Ultratech Tanto for everyday carry.

I recently bought a D Rocket FIN, and I'm really enjoying it. Good action, some finger ridges and texture to make it easier to grip, and nice M390. But it's still pretty much "box with blade" when compared to something like a Native, ParaMilitary or Manix.

OTF packaging seems like a difficult thing to balance with ergonomics. With conventional folding knives, the assumption is you design the handle for gripping mostly when the blade is deployed and 'out of the way' so to speak.

spyderwolf wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2019 1:24 am

It would be expensive,and illegal to carry in most places,not to talk about the sheeple reaction when you take out your OTF,so the market will be very small.Collectible-sure.

I don't think "most places" are illegal, just a few states. I think it's a common misconception. https://www.akti.org/state-laws-regarding-automatics/

Trinity300 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:53 am

spyderwolf wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2019 1:24 am

It would be expensive,and illegal to carry in most places,not to talk about the sheeple reaction when you take out your OTF,so the market will be very small.Collectible-sure.

I don't think "most places" are illegal, just a few states. I think it's a common misconception. https://www.akti.org/state-laws-regarding-automatics/

True, with a caveat. While many states have repealed laws criminalizing the possession of automatic knives by private citizens there's still the Federal law which, while rarely if ever enforced, makes it technically illegal for a private citizen to possess an automatic knife that was not both manufactured and purchased from a dealer in their state of residence. Kind of similar to the situation with marijuana these days.

curlyhairedboy wrote: OTF packaging seems like a difficult thing to balance with ergonomics. With conventional folding knives, the assumption is you design the handle for gripping mostly when the blade is deployed and 'out of the way' so to speak.

Realize I'm replying to something written over a year ago, but I'd have to disagree about the ergonomics of OTFs. As with all other folding knives, some are more ergonomic than others, but every OTF I own is more ergonomic than any multi-bladed folder, and all but a couple have handles that allow a comfortable and secure grip.

Thanks for the reply! I was just imagining the challenges for designers of OTFs when it comes to ergos. The handle of a traditional folder has two primary jobs - being comfortable to hold when the knife is open, and covering the sharp edge and tip of the knife when closed.

OTFs have to enclose the entire blade, so they have potentially greater constraints on design.

Trinity300 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:53 am

spyderwolf wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2019 1:24 am

It would be expensive,and illegal to carry in most places,not to talk about the sheeple reaction when you take out your OTF,so the market will be very small.Collectible-sure.

I don't think "most places" are illegal, just a few states. I think it's a common misconception. https://www.akti.org/state-laws-regarding-automatics/

I was not talking about the US only.

The Deacon wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:33 am

Trinity300 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:53 am

spyderwolf wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2019 1:24 am

It would be expensive,and illegal to carry in most places,not to talk about the sheeple reaction when you take out your OTF,so the market will be very small.Collectible-sure.

I don't think "most places" are illegal, just a few states. I think it's a common misconception. https://www.akti.org/state-laws-regarding-automatics/

True, with a caveat. While many states have repealed laws criminalizing the possession of automatic knives by private citizens there's still the Federal law which, while rarely if ever enforced, makes it technically illegal for a private citizen to possess an automatic knife that was not both manufactured and purchased from a dealer in their state of residence. Kind of similar to the situation with marijuana these days.

That's misinformation. The only United States law regarding auto-open (automatic) knives is referred to as the Federal Switchblade Act. The act regulates the manufacture and introducing of switchblades into interstate (crossing state lines) commerce. It has NO application to individual consumers or most merchants who sell knives. It has NO application to laws WITHIN a state.

The three pertinent sections are:

§ 1242. Introduction, manufacture for introduction, transportation or distribution in interstate commerce; penalty

Whoever knowingly introduces, or manufactures for introduction, into interstate commerce, or transports or distributes in interstate commerce, any switchblade knife, shall be fined not more than $2,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

§ 1243. Manufacture, sale, or possession within specific jurisdictions; penalty

Whoever, within any Territory or possession of the United States, within Indian country (as defined in section 1151 of title 18), or within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States (as defined in section 7 of title 18), manufactures, sells, or possesses any switchblade knife, shall be fined not more than $2,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

§ 1244 Exemptions

Sections 1242 and 1243 of this title shall not apply to (1) any common carrier or contract carrier, with respect to any switchblade knife shipped, transported, or delivered for shipment in interstate commerce in the ordinary course of business;

TL;DR: You can sell and ship knives across state lines through other mail carriers besides USPS like UPS, DHL, or FedEx.

Carlito86 wrote: ↑

Mon May 06, 2019 6:03 am

Microtech Is the reference on this type.

The ultratech Is the knife.

Wonder if Spyderco Is able to do anything better, to make the world even better. I have a lot of MT and trust me,they are very very good.

I recently picked up a few Microtechs and they are phenomenal. I absolutely love them. Uber cool, excellent fit and finish, excellent blade steel, light weight, and reliable. I just love them. If Spyderco made an OTF I would be all over that!!!!!

I would love to see a Spyderco OTF, but I think it is hard to achieve a feature to differentiate from other OTFs while bringing Spyderco brand forward.

The biggest issue that OTF knives have, is the stigma from ignorance. Everybody thinks they are tactical, dangerous, this and that, they suffer from laws that are now realizing how silly they are. But people will still be people if they are shown in movies such as John Wick because of the cool deployment.

Truth is, their biggest selling factor is safety. Do you have a motor disability? And OTF is extremely good for single hand deployment.

But they are delicate things, not meant to be used by responders, operators or whatever, when reliability is needed if force is applied.

I love the curves and how ergonomic the Manix 2 feels, I wonder if a new mechanism can be used that folds within the belly of the handle at the bottom end where you actually grip. Where the mechanism goes transversal against the blade instead of parallel. This could achieve a potentially thinner OTF while allowing to have a grip, instead of a box.

Also, double edges are harder to sharpen and keep in shape. I do not see a Spyderco losing that utility aspect, so I can see a single edge. And the pitching should come around safety, being disability friendly, while having a superior reliability across the OTF market. I think it has its possible niche, but the product would need to differentiate itself.
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Edit: And it gotta have MagnaCut steel or something equivalent that offers a good corrosion resistance, and double action.

IMO, Microtech is the “gold standard” when it comes to both S/A and D/A OTFs-namely the HALO and Scarab series respectively and especially the workmanship of the Vero Beach and Bradford days. Spyderco would have a tough uphill battle in this market segment to both be innovative and to claim market share when Microtech is the dominant leader.