Advantages of 4 " (plus) blades?

[Wartstein]

the resilience is not a ridiculous size. it’s not much longer than the endura. i feel it’s a more robust and durable knife though. personally, i’d rather use the resilience than my pacific salt in the woods. i love my pacific salt for its intended purposes, but it’s not a hard use knife. i’ve grown a little skeptical of the resilience (see what i did there?) of frn backlocks. they are great for edc, but they are not confidence inspiring (to me) for anything that pushes the limits of a knife.
i also own a cold steel recon one xl. maybe that’s why the resolience isn’t crazy big to me. my pacific salt was my first knife that approached 4” and i remember thinking it was big when i got it. now, i find the pacific salt and resilience to just be a really nice and comfortable size. with that said, i still mostly edc my manix lw or yojimbo though.

Thanks for your reply once more!
I've never handled a Resilience, so I can't compare it to the Endura to be honest.
The Pac Salt you mentioned does not have liners, right? (Never had one, so I am not sure).
Because when it comes to frn backlocks constructed like an Endura, I have to disagree with you. I definitely think those ARE quite "hard use" knives actually. In fact my sabre grind Endura is probably the "hardest use" folder I own, it feels quite undestructable to me... just my two cents of course.

[vivi]

They provide numerous advantages:

1. There is increased edge retention compared to shorter blades, as there is more edge to dull.

2. There is an increase in efficiency. You are spending fewer cuts on the same jobs. It is easier to cut foods in half with a single cut, foods like apples, onions, cantaloupes, etc. It is easier to slice steaks, chicken breast etc. with single slices rather than sawing back and forth.

3. There is an increase in versatility. Imagine you are hiking up a mountain and the trail you're on had some briar throrns recently grow across it. You could chop through them more safely and effectively with a Police, Szabo Folder etc. than a smaller knife. It is easier to use my precision grip on a Police to slice tape on a box and cut out a newspaper article than it is to try to make a Dragonfly cut through thorns on a trail or half a cantaloupe.

4. Bigger blade = bigger handle, at least on folders. Blade size is not the only thing to consider - handle size matters too. 3" to 3.5" of cutting edge is a useful blade length for anyone to EDC. BUT, a lot of handles attached to 3" to 3.5" blades simply don't feel good. Delicas, BM 940, Kershaw Leek, Mini Manix, Endura 4....these don't feel good in my grip. My Police, Military, CS Large Voyager, BM Rukus, Manix XL....these are much more ergonomic.

5. Easier to operate. Big folders are easier for me to open and close, especially with gloves on. I wouldn't say an Endura is tough to open and close, but once you get down to the Delica size, my hand certainly needs a more concious effort to operate it.

6. Less chance the things you're cutting will slip off the tip end. When I break down a big box I'll cut it in half, stack those two pieces, cut them in half, then repeat. Cutting 4 or 8 layers of cardboard at once with a smaller knife, there's a good chance those last few pieces are gping to slip off and not get cut. With so much cutting edge materials are more likely to get cleanly sliced before they can reach the tip.

So for me, comparing an Endura 4 and Police....the Police is more ergonomic, more versatile, more efficient and has better edge retention.

The only downsides (for me) are an extra .75 oz, which will be cut down to about 1/4 ounce with the Police lightweight.

----------------------------------

If a knife feels too long in your pocket, clip it IWB, to a cell phone pocket, a boot or cargo pocket. Right Front Pocket is what, one of twenty places you could clip it?

If a blade feels too long for fine tip control, this grip lets you get right up to the tip on blades under 5" or so:



Lastly, design matters A LOT. With some big knives...they feel like big knives. Others carry their size with more grace. The Police 3 & 4 never felt like big, unwieldy tanks. They're light, narrow, slim in the pocket and have an incredibly efficient blade profile. They handle like a smaller knife IMO.

[vivi]

There are a lot of yard work chores where a larger blade is very handy. Things that involve digging stuff out or cutting turf, for example.

And food prep. Cutting apples with a 3" blade is a pain.

I am with you on that, that's why I carry Endura sized blades mostlly, but I wondered if even larger really does offer noticeable more benefit?

I switch between a Pacific Salt for work and a Police 4 everywhere else. I find the extra blade length useful. As well as the extra handle space. The Pacific Salt, as much as I love it, is a bit cramped for me when I use the thumb ramp. The Police does a lot better at food prep.

the resilience is not a ridiculous size. it’s not much longer than the endura. i feel it’s a more robust and durable knife though. personally, i’d rather use the resilience than my pacific salt in the woods. i love my pacific salt for its intended purposes, but it’s not a hard use knife. i’ve grown a little skeptical of the resilience (see what i did there?) of frn backlocks. they are great for edc, but they are not confidence inspiring (to me) for anything that pushes the limits of a knife.
i also own a cold steel recon one xl. maybe that’s why the resolience isn’t crazy big to me. my pacific salt was my first knife that approached 4” and i remember thinking it was big when i got it. now, i find the pacific salt and resilience to just be a really nice and comfortable size. with that said, i still mostly edc my manix lw or yojimbo though.

Whatever you think that FRN backlock can't handle...I've probably already done it a few times with my Pacific Salts

A full sized handle cannot be underestimated for a knife that gets used for long durations. The extra reach of a long blade is nice in some situations too (brush/branches).

I don’t think I would want something bigger than a Police.

OP here, I am with you on the advantage of a long handle that a long folder will always offer. But I like blades / handles in the Endura size (so blade length around 3.8) anyway, and was wondering if even MORE length than the Endura offers, in the blade but as well in the handle really gives even more benefit. Maybe in the blade, but the Endura handle is already really long I'd say.. ?

I think you overestimate the size difference....



It's pretty minor.

Anyways, one advantage of the extra long handle is it offers another grip shorter handles don't:



I've got all four fingers on the handle, and I have excellent leverage for chopping style cuts from here. This is the grip I use for minor trail maintenance.

It's also about more than just size. The Endura 4 is big enough to be comfortable for me, but the handle is shaped so that it feels bad in my grip. The Endura 3 and Stretch are sized similar, and feel much better. The Police 3 has a very similar handle shape conpared to Enduras, but it feels much better in my hand.

[BigKenbo]

Stimulated by some recent posts and discussions I´d like to adress a question to all of you who like to carry folders with blades of 4 inches or longer:

What are the actual advantages of such a long blade in various EDC-scenarios compared to a not short, but around 3.5 to 3.8 blade ?

Let me specify my question:

I came to prefer a quite narrow range when it comes to length of the actual EDGE (so not blade) of my main EDC knives, and that would between 8 and 9 cm. ( about between 3.1 and 3.5 in inches) of EDGE, normally that means 3.5 to 3.8 overall BLADE length. (for reference: That's the PM2 to Endura size range)

Anything noticeable shorter has its limits when it comes to for example minor food prep on the road, or generally in many cutting tests really.

But anything LONGER (so 4 " and more) does not give me personally really even more benefit, tends to get a little long in the pocket and a little less good for finer tip work and the like.

That´s just my personal preference and opinion of course, and I am aware of that many even think, a 3.5 to 3.8 blade is unnecessarely LONG for a regular EDC-knife.

Still ,I´d really appreciate the input of you out there who like to regularely carry even longer blades than I do!

Just my opinion my friend, but the main reason is under 4 inches may not be long enough to reach a vital organ in a SD scenario. If you are attempting to incapacitate an assailant, a longer blade capable of reaching the heart diaghram or liver while going the long way, may be the difference between success or failure, which is to say living or dieing. Most certainly longer folders are uncomfortable and often inconvenient to carry, but i frequesntly carry a 6.5 inch fixed blade, for the aforementioned reasons.

[BigKenbo]

A long blade can do more than a small blade. A smaller blade can do things with more control. Sometimes I want the control of a smaller blade but most of the time I want the versatility of a longer blade.

A Military paired with either a Delica or a Native is my go to combo. Today it is an M4 Military paired with a Maxamet Native5LW. Not much I cannot handle with that combo. :)

Is there actually anything shy of WW3 or attempting to unsaddle some of the horsemen of the apocolypse, that you couldnt handle with that combo?

[ZrowsN1s]

So I'm a diehard small knife guy who has recently explored the world of larger knives. An observation on the advantages of 4"+ blades....

I'll be the first to say I can accomplish almost all of my cutting tasks with a Dragonfly. And the first to point out that there are some tasks for which small blades are preferable to large.

How ever, I find that many tasks get easier with a larger blade. There is of course a point of diminishing returns (opening mail with a sword), but certainly in the 4-4.5 inch range, many tasks are easier even when compared to 3-3.5 inch blades.

It's also worth noting that control is a factor. If the 4 inch blade in question is heavy and has a big handle that I, with my smaller hands, have a problem getting a hold of, the extra blade length isn't so helpful. But if the knife is something like a Police4 that has a slim handle that I can easily grip, a large blade has some advantages.

I often cut paper towel rolls in half to make smaller sheets. I can do this with a Delica, I can do it with a Shaman, a PM 2, Para 3... It is easiest with the Police4 (the thin geometry doesn't hurt either). If you're slicing through anything as opposed to push cutting, a longer blade gives you a longer slice. Less sawing required. You can cut deeper with a longer blade.

It's simply more cutting power. I wasn't sure if the Police4 would end up as a novelty in my collection or something I'd actually carry. It has definitely fallen into the something I carry category. I can see what Sal likes about it :D

[Bloke]

I don’t have any folders larger than the Military and that’s not likely to change. Specifically to the Military’s 4” blade and the ergonomics of the knife, I can choke up, run my forefinger along the spine and do any detailed cutting I need. If I need to do any heavier cutting like opening clamshell packaging, cutting rope, putting points on sticks etc. it’s easily done using the heel of the blade.

Like many here I simply feel I can do more with a longer blade. Something else I feel is worth a mention, there’s more edge to share the load. Like many hands make light work. So in my use the knife simply stays sharp longer. It mightn’t be as sharp at the heel that’s done all the serious cutting but I still have half the blade or more towards the tip that's stayed sharp for fine cutting. :)

[wrdwrght]

I don’t need to reach as far to slice the cheese and apples :rolleyes:, which, I guess, is a kind of food prep

[zhyla]

OP here, I am with you on the advantage of a long handle that a long folder will always offer. But I like blades / handles in the Endura size (so blade length around 3.8) anyway, and was wondering if even MORE length than the Endura offers, in the blade but as well in the handle really gives even more benefit. Maybe in the blade, but the Endura handle is already really long I'd say.. ?

There are diminishing returns for sure. But a longer grip gives you more options. Where do you grip a hammer? Anywhere that feels comfortable. Cut a couple inches off a hammer and it feels weird, even if you are gripping it in the same place.

When I make a kitchen knife I aim for 5” of handle. A little sticking out the back is fine, not enough is bad.

In the end fixed blades are the answer to most questions about ergonomics and usability. Rarely do you see sub-3” blades with tiny handles. Folders are a compromise for convenience (well worth the trade obviously).

[vivi]

My Izula 2 has a tiny blade compared to my Police, but the handle is sized just right for my hand.

[TkoK83Spy]

Darn you Vivi and Matt!

That comparison photo of the Police, Military and Endura...wow! I never realized how close in size they are. A few months ago I acquired a full SE Endura. I've used it at work a few times, but mainly in the yard the past week or so with spring cleaning and prepping. It's certainly a larger knife compared to most of mine, but not THAT big. So to see it compared to the others in your post...really makes me want to pull the trigger on the Rex45 Military.

Matt, I feel like we typically have the same style and desire for our knives. Always noticed our similarities. When you got that Police 4...I was shocked haha. Then to read up on your reviews about it, a knife that size intigured me a bit. Granted when I'm camping I typically carry a PM2 or Manix2 along with a fixed blade...but maybe there is room for that Military in my daily rotation.

Thanks...but no thanks guys. My internal debate is now stronger than ever!!

[ferider]

I think you overestimate the size difference....
: : :
It's pretty minor.

That wide angle shot with the smallest in the front and the largest in the back is a little unfair to the larger knives :)

Repost of an older photo:



If I think about Endura, Military and P4, the Military and P4 "feel" the same size (due to same 5.5" handle size?), and the Endura smaller.

[ladybug93]

the resilience is not a ridiculous size. it’s not much longer than the endura. i feel it’s a more robust and durable knife though. personally, i’d rather use the resilience than my pacific salt in the woods. i love my pacific salt for its intended purposes, but it’s not a hard use knife. i’ve grown a little skeptical of the resilience (see what i did there?) of frn backlocks. they are great for edc, but they are not confidence inspiring (to me) for anything that pushes the limits of a knife.
i also own a cold steel recon one xl. maybe that’s why the resolience isn’t crazy big to me. my pacific salt was my first knife that approached 4” and i remember thinking it was big when i got it. now, i find the pacific salt and resilience to just be a really nice and comfortable size. with that said, i still mostly edc my manix lw or yojimbo though.

Thanks for your reply once more!
I've never handled a Resilience, so I can't compare it to the Endura to be honest.
The Pac Salt you mentioned does not have liners, right? (Never had one, so I am not sure).
Because when it comes to frn backlocks constructed like an Endura, I have to disagree with you. I definitely think those ARE quite "hard use" knives actually. In fact my sabre grind Endura is probably the "hardest use" folder I own, it feels quite undestructable to me... just my two cents of course.

don’t get me wrong... like i said, i love my pacific salt. i just don’t think of it as a robust knife, especially compared to knives i have that are clearly more robust. it’s a fine knife for anything you need a pocket knife for.
that said, i own three spyderco lockbacks in frn (pac salt, df2 salt, and native salt). the df2 is the worst offender when it comes to play and a weak feeling lock. it gets a pass because it’s small and i wouldn’t be pushing it hard anyway. the native salt feels more robust than the rest even though it has suffered some blade play and has oddities of its own. the pac salt doesn’t have any play, but due to its length and lack of liners, it has the most flex overall, which makes me feel less confident in its ability to take much abuse.
just to reiterate, i like all of these knives. i know they are strong enough for everyday tasks and then some. they just simply aren’t as confidence inspiring as other designs. my manix has a much more secure feeling than all of these knives and so does my yojimbo. even the resilience feels more secure, whether it actually is or not.
what other conclusion is there for me to come to here? i love the knives. i carry and use each of them regularly (although, if my workplace didn’t have stupid blade length rules, i’d probably never carry the df2). they are strong enough and great for what they are designed for. they just aren’t as strong, by design, as some others.

[Wartstein]

don’t get me wrong... like i said, i love my pacific salt. i just don’t think of it as a robust knife, especially compared to knives i have that are clearly more robust. it’s a fine knife for anything you need a pocket knife for.
that said, i own three spyderco lockbacks in frn (pac salt, df2 salt, and native salt). the df2 is the worst offender when it comes to play and a weak feeling lock. it gets a pass because it’s small and i wouldn’t be pushing it hard anyway. the native salt feels more robust than the rest even though it has suffered some blade play and has oddities of its own. the pac salt doesn’t have any play, but due to its length and lack of liners, it has the most flex overall, which makes me feel less confident in its ability to take much abuse.
just to reiterate, i like all of these knives. i know they are strong enough for everyday tasks and then some. they just simply aren’t as confidence inspiring as other designs. my manix has a much more secure feeling than all of these knives and so does my yojimbo. even the resilience feels more secure, whether it actually is or not.
what other conclusion is there for me to come to here? i love the knives. i carry and use each of them regularly (although, if my workplace didn’t have stupid blade length rules, i’d probably never carry the df2). they are strong enough and great for what they are designed for. they just aren’t as strong, by design, as some others.

I honestly can't give a valid opinion on LINERLESS frn-lockbacks, for the only one I've really used was the Native 5 lw (which felt pretty strong though).

But when it comes to the FRN versions that HAVE liners I have a lot of experience (Enduras, Stretches, Delicas, Chap) and I must say: Very strong and very "hard use"... by that I mean the lock itself, but also the overall construction with the closed, mostly steel spine plus the steel liners.
That combined with the stout blade of my sabrebgrind Endura makes for even more "hard use" than I'll probably ever need... (that's why I almost never carry my sg Endura, but very often my ffg ones..).

But, as said, I personally don't know about the linerless versions and so I appreciate your insight!

[ZrowsN1s]

Darn you Vivi and Matt!

That comparison photo of the Police, Military and Endura...wow! I never realized how close in size they are. A few months ago I acquired a full SE Endura. I've used it at work a few times, but mainly in the yard the past week or so with spring cleaning and prepping. It's certainly a larger knife compared to most of mine, but not THAT big. So to see it compared to the others in your post...really makes me want to pull the trigger on the Rex45 Military.

Matt, I feel like we typically have the same style and desire for our knives. Always noticed our similarities. When you got that Police 4...I was shocked haha. Then to read up on your reviews about it, a knife that size intigured me a bit. Granted when I'm camping I typically carry a PM2 or Manix2 along with a fixed blade...but maybe there is room for that Military in my daily rotation.

Thanks...but no thanks guys. My internal debate is now stronger than ever!!

Always glad to help :D

[Albatross]

They provide numerous advantages:

1. There is increased edge retention compared to shorter blades, as there is more edge to dull.

2. There is an increase in efficiency. You are spending fewer cuts on the same jobs. It is easier to cut foods in half with a single cut, foods like apples, onions, cantaloupes, etc. It is easier to slice steaks, chicken breast etc. with single slices rather than sawing back and forth.

3. There is an increase in versatility. Imagine you are hiking up a mountain and the trail you're on had some briar throrns recently grow across it. You could chop through them more safely and effectively with a Police, Szabo Folder etc. than a smaller knife. It is easier to use my precision grip on a Police to slice tape on a box and cut out a newspaper article than it is to try to make a Dragonfly cut through thorns on a trail or half a cantaloupe.

4. Bigger blade = bigger handle, at least on folders. Blade size is not the only thing to consider - handle size matters too. 3" to 3.5" of cutting edge is a useful blade length for anyone to EDC. BUT, a lot of handles attached to 3" to 3.5" blades simply don't feel good. Delicas, BM 940, Kershaw Leek, Mini Manix, Endura 4....these don't feel good in my grip. My Police, Military, CS Large Voyager, BM Rukus, Manix XL....these are much more ergonomic.

5. Easier to operate. Big folders are easier for me to open and close, especially with gloves on. I wouldn't say an Endura is tough to open and close, but once you get down to the Delica size, my hand certainly needs a more concious effort to operate it.

6. Less chance the things you're cutting will slip off the tip end. When I break down a big box I'll cut it in half, stack those two pieces, cut them in half, then repeat. Cutting 4 or 8 layers of cardboard at once with a smaller knife, there's a good chance those last few pieces are gping to slip off and not get cut. With so much cutting edge materials are more likely to get cleanly sliced before they can reach the tip.

So for me, comparing an Endura 4 and Police....the Police is more ergonomic, more versatile, more efficient and has better edge retention.

The only downsides (for me) are an extra .75 oz, which will be cut down to about 1/4 ounce with the Police lightweight.

----------------------------------

If a knife feels too long in your pocket, clip it IWB, to a cell phone pocket, a boot or cargo pocket. Right Front Pocket is what, one of twenty places you could clip it?

If a blade feels too long for fine tip control, this grip lets you get right up to the tip on blades under 5" or so:



Lastly, design matters A LOT. With some big knives...they feel like big knives. Others carry their size with more grace. The Police 3 & 4 never felt like big, unwieldy tanks. They're light, narrow, slim in the pocket and have an incredibly efficient blade profile. They handle like a smaller knife IMO.

This really covers every reason I have.

The two biggest problems, for my use, with sub 4" knives, are short handles and a lack of cutting power.

The Police 4 and Native Chief will probably find their way into my collection, but for right now, the Military has met all my needs and exceeded my expectations. I suspect we'll see more on this soon. I've been thinking about sharing my thoughts and experiences with the knife, after some use and testing.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Amazing! First of all, once again, Wartstein my friend, you prove to be a great thinker and knife user. I am very glad to read this topic thread and I am very glad you made it, thank you.

My answer is similiar in some respects to others. At least for me, I have found that the "ideal" knife blade length is in the 3 to 4 inch range. While I understand and respect the use of knives with blade lengths below three inches, and above four inches, I believe there is not only a practical, but a deep "mathematically mystical sweet spot" for knife blades being within the 3-4 inch range. I know that may sound strange and I do not want to get into the particulars of why I believe that to be so, but, I also see the uses for knives with blades larger than four inches.

[neuronic]

Babes?

[awa54]

Stimulated by some recent posts and discussions I´d like to adress a question to all of you who like to carry folders with blades of 4 inches or longer:

What are the actual advantages of such a long blade in various EDC-scenarios compared to a not short, but around 3.5 to 3.8 blade ?

Let me specify my question:

I came to prefer a quite narrow range when it comes to length of the actual EDGE (so not blade) of my main EDC knives, and that would between 8 and 9 cm. ( about between 3.1 and 3.5 in inches) of EDGE, normally that means 3.5 to 3.8 overall BLADE length. (for reference: That's the PM2 to Endura size range)

Anything noticeable shorter has its limits when it comes to for example minor food prep on the road, or generally in many cutting tests really.

But anything LONGER (so 4 " and more) does not give me personally really even more benefit, tends to get a little long in the pocket and a little less good for finer tip work and the like.

That´s just my personal preference and opinion of course, and I am aware of that many even think, a 3.5 to 3.8 blade is unnecessarely LONG for a regular EDC-knife.

Still ,I´d really appreciate the input of you out there who like to regularely carry even longer blades than I do!

Let me start off by saying that my EDC preference is for 3" range blades and if I don't intend to do yard, garden or hiking/camping chores I hold to that or even shorter... for me exposed steel past the handle scale is the length reference that matters, even if there's a forward choil involved. On occasions where I might need to cut vegetation or thick/tough material 3.5-4" is more likely to go in my pocket, mostly because larger knives are often a bit more robust than small ones and the longer edge gives many benefits when cutting large items. Reach is also a concern when I'm cutting down burdocks, if I can slash through a burdock stem without having to come to grips with the seed heads all the better! Size when folded is also part of that preference; when I'm at work or indoors at home there is no need for a pocket full of knife that might wedge in my pocket when sitting or dig in to my hip while lounging on the couch, on the other hand, that extra length and thickness is hardly noticeable when I'm hiking or gardening.

One thing that doesn't come in to play at all for me is food prep. IMO folding knives are always the last resort when cooking, both because of sanitation and their terrible ergonomics when used on a cutting board... plus even the sliciest production folder is much ground much thicker than a good kitchen knife. I think more Knife Knuts need to embrace the joy of having a full stable of purpose made kitchen knives!

[vivi]

One thing that doesn't come in to play at all for me is food prep. IMO folding knives are always the last resort when cooking, both because of sanitation and their terrible ergonomics when used on a cutting board... plus even the sliciest production folder is much ground much thicker than a good kitchen knife. I think more Knife Knuts need to embrace the joy of having a full stable of purpose made kitchen knives!

I'll be the first one to say people who don't own and use good kitchen knives are weirdos, but my folders still see a good bit of food prep. Spending time with some 1.5-3 year old family members sometimes they need their food cut up while we're out eating. Sometimes I take a walk in the woods and use my knife to build a fire and cook some food...generally I'll slice it up on the spot with whatever knife I have on me.

With the reprofiled edges I put on my knives combined with sharper than razor edges, they do pretty good on food. They'll never match my personal chef knives, but they beat out most the dull kitchen knives you'll find in folks homes.