Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

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fsck_
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Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby fsck_ » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:03 pm

Looking for some advice here.

Last night I was taking the subway home from work when an undercover officer stopped me. He saw my MXG deep carry clip in my front right pocket and asked me what it was, then used his finger to push the bottom of my Para 3 out of my pocket. While I was being questioned, I saw two officers walk a few feet away from me trying to flick my Para 3 open. Eventually one of them appeared to have gotten it open with a wrist flick, and I was arrested. I never saw them actually flick it, and my Para 3 was only a month old, so I know it wasn't worn in, and I haven't been able to get it open with a wrist flick. I cooperated, and explained that I believed that what I was carrying was legal. I was handcuffed, taken to a station, put in a cell for 4 hours, then fingerprints, and mugshots were taken.

I'm 32, no criminal history, and work in a place where I open packages, and boxes regularly. I was under the impression that since the Para 3 had no assist, and was 3", that it wouldn't be any trouble. I was however given a summons a little over a year ago for carrying a Kershaw Cryo II. I ended up having to go to court, and do community service for that. After that experience, I thought I understood the law better, considering that knife had an assisted open. Am I in the wrong here? Do I just go to court and plead guilty?

My desk appearance ticket says PEN § 265.01 01

Thanks for any help

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TazKristi
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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby TazKristi » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:57 pm

fsck_ wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:03 pm
Looking for some advice here. ...
Hi, fsck_:
Welcome to our forum. I'm sorry it's under these circumstances. Unfortunately, we are unable to offer legal advice. Our best recommendation would be to seek out someone who is familiar with the specific laws in NYC. You may also consider visiting KnifeRights.org.

I'm going to move this thread to our Off-Topic section as it pertains more to your unfortunate situation than it does our products specifically. We definitely wish you all the best!

Kristi
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Wartstein
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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby Wartstein » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:58 pm

Hello,

since I am living in Europe and don´t know much about American knife laws I am no help unfortunately. Just wanted to say: I am really sorry for you, that´s crazy!

All the best!
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sal
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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby sal » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:59 pm

Hi Fsck,

Welcome to our forum and sorry for your experience.

The Wrist flicking thing is a stupid issue, but it does create a lot of problems, especially in Canada. "Big Brother" may be a PITA, but "Big Brother" is BIG. I really can't give you any legal advice, you will probably have to pay a fine and lose your knife. Others here have had similar experiences and can probably offer better advice.

sal

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The Mastiff
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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby The Mastiff » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:03 pm

So would it be OK if the knife wasn't clipped and in the pocket or are all knives illegal? It seems to be a good revenue generator for the city .

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Knife Knut
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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby Knife Knut » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:16 pm

IANAL but am pretty sure PEN § 265.01 01 refers to
https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/ ... 65-01.html
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:

(1) He or she possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, plastic knuckles, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or “Kung Fu star”;  or
Again, I Am Not A Lawyer, but AFAIK case law boils down to in NY that any knife openable by centripetal or centrifugal force meets the definition of "gravity knife" (bullshit imho)

You have my sympathy.

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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby cbrstar » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:22 pm

Maybe you should email Doug Ritter and knife rights? At the very least I would lawyer up

fsck_
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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby fsck_ » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:19 pm

TazKristi wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:57 pm
fsck_ wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:03 pm
Looking for some advice here. ...
Hi, fsck_:
Welcome to our forum. I'm sorry it's under these circumstances. Unfortunately, we are unable to offer legal advice. Our best recommendation would be to seek out someone who is familiar with the specific laws in NYC. You may also consider visiting KnifeRights.org.

I'm going to move this thread to our Off-Topic section as it pertains more to your unfortunate situation than it does our products specifically. We definitely wish you all the best!

Kristi
I totally understand that, and thank you. It is unfortunate, it was my first Spyderco, and I loved it!
Thanks for your feedback

fsck_
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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby fsck_ » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:20 pm

cbrstar wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:22 pm
Maybe you should email Doug Ritter and knife rights? At the very least I would lawyer up
I've spoken to Doug today, he was very helpful, thanks for the suggestion.

Ultimately I'm going to need to get a lawyer, so aside from them taking my knife, I'm going to be out ~$3k

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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby The Meat man » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:27 pm

Sorry about your bad experience. :( That law seems very unreasonable to me.

I hope you can get things sorted out without too much grief.
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Knife Knut
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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby Knife Knut » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:31 pm

cbrstar wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:22 pm
Maybe you should email Doug Ritter and knife rights? At the very least I would lawyer up
Definitely see if you can get a public defender, but things do not look good no matter what because of the way the law is being enforced.

Knife Rights just filed to take this issue to the US Supreme Court to fix the problem at a structural level: https://kniferights.org/legislative-upd ... nife-case/

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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby vivi » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:02 pm

I have heard of many folks on knife forums being the victim of stop and frisk policies in NYC when a pocket clip is spotted.

If I ever travel to NYC I will stick with a slipjoint, or maybe a smaller Leatherman with no one handed opening blades.

FWIW I can wrist flick open most any knife with a hard enough swing of my arm. Especially if I hold the knife upside down and swing it downwards. Detent based knives like the Para series are especially easy to do this with, but I can manage it with lockbacks too.

Sorry you're having to deal with this BS OP. Best of luck.

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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby TomAiello » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:29 pm

I'd definitely consult a lawyer. Maybe ask Doug Ritter if he can recommend one in NYC for this kind of issue. But my guess is that if you lawyer up you can beat this kind of thing.

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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby MacLaren » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:33 pm

Sounds like a real nightmare to me.
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That's just so chickenshiznit

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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby JD Spydo » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:44 pm

Well first off welcome to the Forum :) I'm sorry you were caught up in a draconian system there in NYC. But they have been ruled by a bunch of hypocritical liberals for quite some time now and they can drum up any charge on you unfortunately. First off I would most definitely retain a reputable attorney.

Also you can check with the organization decated to knife rights and it would also be wise to become a member if you can. I'm speaking of the AKTI which stands for the "American Knife & Tool Institute". I've been a member for quite some time and there are a lot of great people there that might be able to help you. They might even know of a good attorney to recommend.

This is truly a sad thing that is going on in our great country and it needs to stop ASAP. Next election do everything you can to vote the cockroaches out. That's what I've been doing for years and we have made good progress here in Missouri. Please do keep us posted. I seriously doubt if you get any serious time. They probably just want to hit you with a big fine>> which is pretty cowardly on their part. But do keep us posted because as knife owners and users we need to be armed with as much information as we can. You'll be in my prayers Sir :)

James Y
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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby James Y » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:40 pm

I've heard that any knife clipped to the pocket in NYC can make someone subject to a search by the cops, if they see it. I don't think it matters if the blade is at or below 3" or not. And if carried down in pocket, be sure it doesn't "print" in the pocket and become visible. I also think that locking knives period are off-limits in NYC, but don't quote me on that, because I'm not a lawmaker.

If I ever visited NYC again, and if I took a knife, it would only be a small, non-locking Swiss Army knife. I'd like to see any cop try to wrist-flick open a SAK. Even then, if you're a tourist and visiting various landmarks, any knife may be forbidden in certain locations.

Jim

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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby The Deacon » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:39 am

The Mastiff wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:03 pm
So would it be OK if the knife wasn't clipped and in the pocket or are all knives illegal? It seems to be a good revenue generator for the city .

Joe, IANAL, but any knife carried loose in your pocket it would be a lot less likely to be spotted by the police, so safer. However, it would still be subject to NYC's overly broad interpretation of NYS's law on gravity knives if found, for example, during a Terry search. So, not completely safe, considering that even something like a Buck 110 can be kinetically opened if you hold it by the blade.
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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby Sjucaveman » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:00 am

Perhaps work the unreasonable search and seizure defense though I too am not a lawyer or familiar with NYC knife law.
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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby MacLaren » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:22 pm

Just a tad off topic, but stop & frisk may be right for NYC, but it would never fly down south or especially in the country.
The first thing I think of when I think of stop & frisk is : " Papers Please" - Russia. No way that would fly in my neck of the woods.
That being said, a place like NYC, with the real threat of terrorism and real bad guys, whether gangs or mafia, I can see it being a very useful tool to combat crime.
I dunno O.P. - if I were you I would either obey the law to the letter or just move. Because as Sal said, big brother is BIG.

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Re: Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

Postby Crux » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:33 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:58 pm
Hello,

since I am living in Europe and don´t know much about American knife laws I am no help unfortunately. Just wanted to say: I am really sorry for you, that´s crazy!

All the best!
I thought NYC was in Europe. Did they come back?
Can you find it and can it cut? :eek:


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