Touché!
This made me LOL for real. :)
One of the classics for sure.
Touché!
This is very true. And worrisome if you combine it with currency control and military expansion.Eli Chaps wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:08 pmFirst, to everyone who keeps dismissing the Chinese as cheap, bad service, questionable quality, etc. I would strongly recommend you reconsider your position. Yes, those things can be true, but the Chinese figured this out about 20 years ago. Today, many companies are deeply committed to meeting and surpassing the quality and service provided by other countries, namely the USA. It is happening across a broad spectrum of industries. Believe me, I know and it is a constant concern in my industry as well. They aren't just coming, they are here.
I very much respect this. One of the best reasons to buy Spyderco, IMO.
Daveho wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:00 pmCould you clarify what you mean by “steels are more pure” I’m curious as I had thought that if you buy a steel from Carpenter or crucible if it’s a named steel like S35vn those companies would be supplying the same steel to those who ordered it and the difference would’ve been in the heat treat.sal wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:44 am
Competing against Chinese makers would not be difficult if the value of the Chinese currency was more in line with current global practices. Our tolerances are closer. The steels we use are more pure, our designs are well thought out and based more often on function than eye appeal, etc.
We consider competitors like; Buck, Benchmade, Kershaw, CRK, Cold Steel, etc. to more more fair in a Global market.
sal
Was U.S. Steel for high end exacting Spyderco standards like that in the Late 1970's and early 1980's? I ask because it occurred to me in another thread concerning the Hunter knife from around 1981 ( Which has CQI Evolved into the Superb Stretch2) the steel was a Japanese G2 steel. I had no idea Spyderco had such a long relationship with Hitachi steel.sal wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:47 pmDaveho wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:00 pmCould you clarify what you mean by “steels are more pure” I’m curious as I had thought that if you buy a steel from Carpenter or crucible if it’s a named steel like S35vn those companies would be supplying the same steel to those who ordered it and the difference would’ve been in the heat treat.sal wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:44 am
Competing against Chinese makers would not be difficult if the value of the Chinese currency was more in line with current global practices. Our tolerances are closer. The steels we use are more pure, our designs are well thought out and based more often on function than eye appeal, etc.
We consider competitors like; Buck, Benchmade, Kershaw, CRK, Cold Steel, etc. to more more fair in a Global market.
sal
I'm referring to Steel made in China. I think they'll improve, as they do with most things, but Chinese upper end steel is not there yet.
sal
I don't think they were producing any knives in the US at that time, therefore they used what Seki suggested/could source.Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:06 pm
Was U.S. Steel for high end exacting Spyderco standards like that in the Late 1970's and early 1980's? I ask because it occurred to me in another thread concerning the Hunter knife from around 1981 ( Which has CQI Evolved into the Superb Stretch2) the steel was a Japanese G2 steel. I had no idea Spyderco had such a long relationship with Hitachi steel.
Thanks Sal Love the history lessons.sal wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:18 pmWe began making knives in Seki with a maker introduced to us by Al Mar. Production began in 1981. We used Hitachi and Aichi steel early on, then gravitated to more Japanese foundries. We began making knives in the US in the early 90's and used US steel. Crucible at the time. We also imported a few steels.
sal
Makes sense since they keep using American steels I supposesal wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:47 pmDaveho wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:00 pmCould you clarify what you mean by “steels are more pure” I’m curious as I had thought that if you buy a steel from Carpenter or crucible if it’s a named steel like S35vn those companies would be supplying the same steel to those who ordered it and the difference would’ve been in the heat treat.sal wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:44 am
Competing against Chinese makers would not be difficult if the value of the Chinese currency was more in line with current global practices. Our tolerances are closer. The steels we use are more pure, our designs are well thought out and based more often on function than eye appeal, etc.
We consider competitors like; Buck, Benchmade, Kershaw, CRK, Cold Steel, etc. to more more fair in a Global market.
sal
I'm referring to Steel made in China. I think they'll improve, as they do with most things, but Chinese upper end steel is not there yet.
sal
Ah, I was hoping someone would bring this painfully obvious point to the fore.ferider wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:28 pm
1) the pricing elephant in the room is this: anybody here who has more than a couple of pocket knives (me included) purchases knives as luxury goods. Regarding luxury good marketing and pricing, quality and materials are only remotely correlated to price of goods.
Roland.
wrdwrght wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:11 pm
Why have I been here for 8 years?
Because I prize trustworthiness over most things and have seen NOTHING to betray my trust in the Spyderco crew.
The appearance of Spydies I can’t or won’t buy because of cost (there are and have been quite a few) is NOT a metric I use to gauge trustworthiness.
....it seems you have decided what is best for you. Good job. If you can't afford a knife or think it doesn't represent value for your dollar, don't buy it. It's not rocket science.ladybug93 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:44 pmthe whole point of this thread is that the price for the shaman is outrageous. lots of people feel that way. a few online reviewers made update videos saying they thought it was a good value when they purchased them, but now not so much. and that was before the 2019 increase.
you all can jump on the spyderco praise train and talk about how you love and trust the company, but it doesn’t make the shaman any more of a value. and say what you want about materials not mattering or chinese companies not being reliable, but when spyderco offers knives with the same materials and quality from the same factory for much less, those arguments start falling apart. are the pm2 and manix (i know the manix has a different lock, but it’s design is more similar) supposed to be more budget friendly versions of the shaman from the same factory with the same materials?
my point is that it is an uncomfortable amount more expensive considering the factors we can see, and maybe the love for the company is coloring the opinions of the devoted followers here. you can still love the shaman and spyderco and think that it costs too much for what it is. i do. i’ll just stick with the manix, which is more comfortable to my hand and wallet.
yes. i've made this point before. the shaman is priced like it's a sprint or a more special steel than s30v. the price isn't the problem; the value is. but everyone here is acting like it's no big deal that the shaman is somehow $50 more for the same materials. you may justify that price difference to yourself because you really want the shaman, but no one is actually happy that it exists in the first place.
correct. it's not rocket science and i'm perfectly happy with the knives that i have. i didn't post here to complain. i posted to point out that the op has a point and many here are just ignoring it or making excuses for spyderco. if the shaman is worth it to you, then buy it and be happy with it.Diamondback wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:45 pm....it seems you have decided what is best for you. Good job. If you can't afford a knife or think it doesn't represent value for your dollar, don't buy it. It's not rocket science.
The bang-for-buck argument turns on how much of a buck you’re willing to part with.ladybug93 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:44 pmyou all can jump on the spyderco praise train and talk about how you love and trust the company, but it doesn’t make the shaman any more of a value. and say what you want about materials not mattering or chinese companies not being reliable, but when spyderco offers knives with the same materials and quality i’ll just stick with the manix, which is more comfortable to my hand and wallet.