Stretch3

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Not trying to be snotty but do you own a Stretch or Stretch 2?

After reading your post I received my first Endura in the mail (Endura 4 VG10).

I compared this to my Stretch 2 and they are nothing alike. The sculpt of the handle is completely different, the Endura lacks the sculpting that locks the hand into the knife like the Stretch2 does and the handle and is much thinner, it lacks the deeper finger choil of the stretch2 and has virtually no belly to the blade as it is very straight.

The only thing these Knives have in common are both have FRN Handles, Both have back locks both are Spydercos and come in similar steels other than that very, very different knives.

Not to dump on Endura and Delica lovers but the Stretch 2 feels and handles like a much more expensive knife where by comparison the Endura feels cheap. Having no interest in the Delica just looking at pictures it appears to follow the Endura.

Of interest to me is how the blade geometry of a Delica closely resembles a Para3.

I guess you might be right about price conscious shoppers missing the differences but man they are missing out one heck of a knife if the difference in budget is $15.00 to $20.00. What is that anyway a trip to Mc Donalds? a 12 pack of Beer? Two matinee tickets to a movie without popcorn or drinks....

[BornIn1500]

Not trying to be snotty but do you own a Stretch or Stretch 2?

It doesn't matter. My point was that the price stops many people from finding out. When the Delica and Endura were on my radar to buy, the Stretch wasn't going to be an option simply because it was priced about $20 higher and it didn't make sense. Many people are just like me. Here's an analogy.... at $100, the Delica would still be a great knife with great ergonomics and a good steel, but that price would stop many people from getting it because it seems out of line. Same thing. You don't need to own one personally to see that.

What is that anyway a trip to Mc Donalds? a 12 pack of Beer?

Yup. So you can get a Delica/Endura and a case of beer instead of the Stretch. Sounds good to a lot of people. The thing is, if we all paid $20 more for every item we own in our lives, we'd go broke in a hurry. Some things have to give. And when that extra $20 seems unnecessary to the layman, he'll opt to not spend it. Those "laymen" are the people making up the vast majority of Delica/Endura/Stretch sales, not knife aficionados on a company forum.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Well I guess we just do not agree on nearly every point.

I will say this if you try an Endure and then a Stretch 2 you will know the difference and it is well worth a few dollars.

[BornIn1500]

Right. But what will get that Stretch into their hands to find out? Many, many people buy knives online without handling them. If you say you need to hold it and try it to see the extra value, then you've already lost the battle. People don't have that opportunity. They'll just buy the cheaper Endure/Delica.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

What will get one in their hands? Can't speak for everyone in the world as for me I roll the dice buy the knife after studying up on it and if it is not a great fit sell it on Ebay. Will I loose money? sure but never that much and that is all part of the hobby. Just depends on what a person can afford and where they find their value.

I enjoy the entire process of collecting. If it costs a few dollars here and there then fine. Some like to do things I would consider a total waste of money like have a high cable T.V. Bill, Some spend tons of money on travel and sporting events. Some like to hang out at bars, some like to go out to eat all the time, some like to smoke, it is All about where one finds their value.

Some people are just plain cheap and there is no cure for a cheapskate.

[BornIn1500]

I'm just offering a reason as to the slow sales and providing a point-of-view to exemplify it. If you don't think money has anything to do with it, then what is the reason?


I completely understand your reason for liking the knife and finding value in it. But what would get more people to buy it??

[sal]

I think that you are both right in your observations.

The difference in the cost of the Stretch is more involved than just what you can see. There is history that requires a higher cost. We are working on improvements on what we do all of the time, but some costs are just there.

sal

[anagarika]

I think that you are both right in your observations.

The difference in the cost of the Stretch is more involved than just what you can see. There is history that requires a higher cost. We are working on improvements on what we do all of the time, but some costs are just there.

sal

Sal,

Owning both and have seen Delica in person as well, I can sense the higher attention to detail when building a Stretch. It’s smoother to operate, the spring tension transition is milder, but still with assuring lock up with strong closure bias. Less jimping on the FRN spine makes a huge difference in comfort. And definitely the curve and butt hook (talking about S1). It locks the blade securely and comfortably. Overall, as Doeswhateveraspidercan already mentioned, anyone holds one, and uses it, most likely will like it.

Unfortunately, as I stated earlier and BornIn1500 also pointed out, the mass market will simply think:” I pay extra 20$ for similar material but getting less blade real estate (length)?” Or, if legality of blade length is a problem, there’s Delica. Again at cheaper cost. So most people would not even try it.

I did not get one NIB for that reason, plus thinking the blade shape is uglier (sorry), with Endura looking more Military like (I love the blade shape of Military since first time seeing it). BUT, as chance happened, came across a used VG10 over BF, and after having it, I totally can understand the design and even think the blade shape is nice. When HAP40 came, i bought it NIB. Regretted not picking up the ZDP.

My friend cannot like Endura as much as Stretch because he held them first. So the key is how to get them in thehand of people. We cannot change how people always think of cost/benefit and the FRN lines are targeting these kind of market segment that emphasizes more on this aspect. They might not be cheap minded, but they want most return for what being spent. Some aficionados might also like them, but they don’t make the bulk of the sales. But that’s my guess, you’ll know better from the sales numbers.

[Catamount123]

That’s the great thing about Spyderco, they make plenty of knives that sell well to the mainstream, but they also invest thought, time, effort and money into making models for afis and specialialized users that they know are not going to sell nearly as well.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

RE: BornIN1500 I already stated that in a prior replies but sometimes I use so many words stuff gets lost.

Reason #1. Shape of blade, the blade does not look appealing, at least not to me. The blade however outperforms my Para3 and Paramilitary 2 which are super popular models. The blade shape literally does conform to many different ways of using it and holding it, for example I can put my index finger comfortably on the spine due to it's shape all the way to the tip if I choose and have fantastic blade control.

Reason #2. The base steel it is offered in. VG10 has had some pretty unfair comparisons online as it is an older steel and as new steels are made available the older steels are used as a comparison and usually not favorably. For some reason the industry trend went super high carbide and super stainless and the current trend is High Speed High Carbide Tool Steels that are not stainless like REX45 and K390.

Merits of VG10:

VG10 as it turns out is a great steel, I held off buying anything in VG10 because everything I read made it out to be yesterday's has been steel and if I was going to spend money I did not want old and improvised but new and improved. Boy was I ever surprised how well VG10 works it has good corrosion resistance, is easy to sharpen, takes a very sharp edge and holds it well, when VG10 becomes a working edge it is literally less than a minute on the sharp-maker to bring it back to super sharp.

Reason#3. When someone like myself who has very little experience with FRN sees FRN it looks like cheap plastic.

Here is what I would do to improve sales.

Marketing: The back story on this knife is already pretty good stating truthfully it is a Pet Project of Sal's. Those who know Spyderco know Spyderco has never been about looks but performance. Still how to overcome the looks and emphasize how well the knife functions is beyond my skills. Customer Reviews?

#1. Keep the FRN Models they are great, but many will avoid it until they know better. I did.

#2. Offer the knife in G-10 (In Black and other colors beside earth brown.) and Carbon Fiber. I own the Earth Brown versions in ZDP189. (It does have a heavier more solid feel.) To be clear the G10 Need not be a sprint run steel with a chosen sprint run color of scales. For me Black G10 scales with VG-10 Steel would be great.

#3. Keep VG10, but offer the model in the steels more people are looking for. This may be a problem I am pretty sure the Stretch2 is manufactured in Japan only and I am not sure what other steels they work with which is why I think we keep seeing ZDP189, HAP40 and Super Blue.

For example I do not know if Japan can work with LC200N, M390, Elmax, CTS-204P, S90V, M4, Cruwear, etc....

[Catamount123]

I’d love to see the Stretch available in various bright colors like the Delica & Endura. It might increase sales, but probably would be more trouble than it's worth from Sal & Spyderco’s perspective. I think it would go over well with ladies who hunt, here in Vermont and elsewhere, though.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

I know two ladies who hunt and EDC they both Carry Knives that a light blue in color and have drop points.

[Wartstein]

I will say this if you try an Endure and then a Stretch 2 you will know the difference and it is well worth a few dollars.

I have to somehow agree and somehow disagree (may sound weired..):
Stretch (1) and Endura are my two alltime favorite folders (not only amongst Spydercos). And since I agree that the Stretch feels more refined, more thought through and like a more expensive knife somehow (and in that sense certainly "worth a few dollars" more), I personally still prefer the Endura, even in ergos, though only by a tiny, tiny bit.
That said, the Stretch still is worth every cent and represents perfectly the Spyderco "Form follows function" approach. I love it.
I also agree with some other posters: If their would be a way to get more people to actually try and experience the Stretch in real use, sales would go way up. The blade shape, though one has to get used to it's looks, really has the "best of all worlds"..

[Catamount123]

I gave one of the ladies I'm thinking of the Orange Moran Drop Point FB for deer season. She loves it.

[Catamount123]

I think a pink version of the Stretch, with a charitable donation tie-in like the Native 5 Lightweight, would be a great way to test the waters for bright colors. Having Type 1 Diabetes, I would also love to see a bright blue version that supports diabetes research.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

I think a pink version of the Stretch, with a charitable donation tie-in like the Native 5 Lightweight, would be a great way to test the waters for bright colors.

That is a great idea heck I would even buy one for breast cancer awareness and give it to my girlfriend.

Lol I gave her a choice of knives out of my collection, wouldn't you know it, if I had, had a PM2 in Pink she would have gone for that instead she chose one of my Paramilitary 2 in S110V. Good Choice! she is hard on knives uses it gardening and does not clean the wet soil off the blade without rust. S110V impressed me after I found it sitting that way outside in hot and humid Florida.

[Mom3ntuM]

Charity or not, I'm not man enough to carry a pink knife and i don't know any woman that carry knives. I think breastcancer research would benefit more from another colour.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

That is the whole problem getting a Spyderco in the hand to try before you buy. For me I would have to travel a bare minimum of 112 miles.

But for others the Spyderco Dealer Locator Tool might help. https://www.spyderco.com/resources/dealer-locator/

[Catamount123]

Sal,

This is my official request for a bright blue Stretch 2, to support the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation:

https://www.jdrf.org

[Mom3ntuM]

Hmm,
We appreciate your interest! We're sorry to say, there are no locations near your selected area. Please try a different location. Thanks much!

I have to go to a different country to handle a spyderco before i buy.