Spyderco Forums

The Mastiff wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:27 pm

My first model Enduras and Delicas are still as reliable as ever and seem to get smoother and smoother over the years. Only the original plastic clip is needing work/replacement. The knives themselves should be good for another 28 years ( first 2 purchased in 92) and probably many more. Two have been through the washer and dryer 4 or 5 times each along with trips to the Atlantic ocean for week long beach vacations along with uncounted swims in our heavily chlorinated pool. ............ The basic design is timeless and only abuse will kill them.

Joe

I could have written that myself - but for the Endura 1

Mine also spent many hours in salt water attached to my webbing.

I don't use the plastic clip so mine is still there.

From Michael
"The way I use knives, which is to cut things that the knife will handle, I.e., not metal, rocks, dry wall, etc. any Spyderco Lock is reliable: easy and secure lock up, easy and secure unlocking."

Agree.

I personally think people / knife users use a knife for things it wasn't designed for or that better and proper tools are available.

5-by-5 wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:45 pm

Of course you're free to share your opinion, no matter how rediculous. However you should not phrase it as if it were fact.

It's not up to you to decide what I should or should not do.

Any lock will do,as long you will use the knife for it's designed purpose.That beign said,i love the compression lock.

supracor wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:30 pm

SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:06 pm

I would not trust a liner lock to succeed in that as much as a back-lock.

Liner locks are just a mess. The only motive why liner locks are still on the market is because you can't flip your knife with a back lock.

And you know that for a fact because...

They are all fine-

Which lock is the least susceptible to blade play, long term?

spyderwolf wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:30 am

And you know that for a fact because...

That liner locks suck or that they exist only for flip your blade out?

The first by my experience and the second it's an obviousness.

When i was a collector i bought a lot of liner/frame lock knives, and i was fine with them until the day that i tried to use them. I could make you a list as long as Melchizedek beard of their problems (flattened detent balls, worn down lock surfaces), but I will describe only 2 of the obvious design flaws that not only make these knives unusable, but also dangerous.

1) when you try to cut something harder than printer paper the lockbar travels in the handle of the knife, and if you continue to work without putting it back in the initial position you notice it anyway soon because it develops a huge blade play; I had 2 cases where the knife was finally rendered unusable by this, a ZT 0460 and a 0920, and this is the lesser problem

2) when in the well known real life you knife has to bear a spine whack test; In a rainy day i almost detached my right hand index with my S110V Military, and since then I don't even use it to cut carrots in the kitchen.



We all know that there are better locks than it, the Tri-Ad endures 900 lbs in the spine whack, but you can't flip out your blade with it and in the real life you don't need a knife so strong and if you try to cut something harder than air it's an obvious abuse, and use the right tool and the rants go on.

Pelagic wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:12 am

Which lock is the least susceptible to blade play, long term?

My liner locks seems to eventually develop vertical play, my lockbacks tend to start off with a hint of vertical play when applying lots of pressure to the cutting edge, heavily used compression lock knives developed a little vertical play for me....have yet to see any ball lock variant develop any play...

Assuming the pivots have loc-tite...

Vivi wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:53 am

Pelagic wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:12 am

Which lock is the least susceptible to blade play, long term?

My liner locks seems to eventually develop vertical play, my lockbacks tend to start off with a hint of vertical play when applying lots of pressure to the cutting edge, heavily used compression lock knives developed a little vertical play for me....have yet to see any ball lock variant develop any play...

Assuming the pivots have loc-tite...

I had a feeling that was the answer. I wish axis lock/variants weren't awkward feeling for me.

Pelagic wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:57 am

Vivi wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:53 am

Pelagic wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:12 am

Which lock is the least susceptible to blade play, long term?

My liner locks seems to eventually develop vertical play, my lockbacks tend to start off with a hint of vertical play when applying lots of pressure to the cutting edge, heavily used compression lock knives developed a little vertical play for me....have yet to see any ball lock variant develop any play...

Assuming the pivots have loc-tite...

I had a feeling that was the answer. I wish axis lock/variants weren't awkward feeling for me.

I suppose I'm lucky in that every lock I've tried from Spyderco feels pretty intuitive for me except for exposed ball bearing locks. I don't like being forced to pinch the release with two fingers VS only needing my thumb on the caged version. Even locks I've written off, like the liner lock, feel extremely easy to use, it's other issues that keep me from carrying one.

Wow, there’s some hostility about locking mechanisms here. Anyways, I think with most lock types it’s more about how it’s done than the mechanism itself. Also how it’s being used. I’ve had linerlock, framelock axis lock and backlock fail, luckily the worst I got was a decent cut. Backlocks can fail if gunk gets in there unnoticed or if you inadvertently press the release. Linerlocks and framelocks can slip if the geometry is off or if you twist the wrong way, (I’ve said many times that righthand frame locks are better for lefties for this reason). Also people seem to think framelocks are stronger than linerlocks yet the cutouts in the titanium to allow for springiness end up as thin as most linerlocks that typically use steel. It’s only as strong as it’s weakest point. My axis lock failed once when it was wet and the bar slid back while rocking the blade out of some material. I’ve also read about the omega springs breaking fairly often. That brings me back to liner and framelocks wearing over time leading to rock. I’ve had two develop lockrock and then it works in more and goes away, who knows if it will come back? Backlocks in my experience are very hit and miss for rock or movement under heavy load. Compression locks should be better against failing than linerlocks due to the pin but prob not entirely immune. I haven’t experienced it yet but they should be susceptible to similar lockrock as well if the geometry is out either from factory or from heavy use. I’ve got a Hougue button lock that seems pretty solid but if you held it wrong I suppose you could press the button. Also not sure long term how the lock engagement holds up. So far the best lock I’ve used as far as blade play, no failure and room for wear in are concerned seems to be CBBL in my Manix2. (I have heard of the cage breaking but mine is good so far). All things considered, any quality folding knife should be fairly safe to use under normal conditions or conditions it is meant for. Choose the lock type you like best. If that’s not enough, fixed blade.
Oh, and I can flick open any lockback that I’ve tried that has a hole, stud or disk for opening. Even one or two that had a deep nail nick. So I don’t think that’s the only reason for linerlocks.

Apparently someone should let Sal, Eric, and all other knife company execs that the liner lock is a “failure” - make sure you cc Chris Reeve too...

To me, all the locks Spyderco (and ZT, CRK, etc) uses are excellent designs and serve their purpose very well, otherwise they wouldn’t be in business. Most end users don’t need to apply a ton of torque to their handles and blades, so I think it ultimately ends up as personal preference. Each of them have some features that could possibly be improved, but Spyderco seems to have that as a company mantra already, and maybe Sal will share relative strength test numbers (like he did when the power lock was introduced). To me, I like the compression lock most, the action and utility of that one tops all.

To me at least I feel like as long as you properly maintain your knives and don't abuse them by doing things like using them as pry bars, any of Spyderco's locks should be good for life. If what your getting at is which is the strongest locking mechanism is strongest or which do people prefer that's a whole different can of worms.

But if I had to answer with a gun to my head which lock would last the longest with proper use and care, I would say the Ball bearing lock would last the longest since it self adjusts as it wears in.

I am not interested in arguing this assertion, but for a reality check I and perhaps for newcomers to the knife world who may read this thread, I would like to point out:

supracor wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:32 am

spyderwolf wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:30 am

And you know that for a fact because...

The first by my experience and the second it's an obviousness.

Which is to say that it is only opinion.

spyderwolf wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:30 am

... I will describe only 2 of the obvious design flaws that not only make these knives unusable, but also dangerous.

1) when you try to cut something harder than printer paper the lockbar travels in the handle of the knife

Well, no. Objective tests show that with a properly made and maintained knife this is not true.

spyderwolf wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:30 am

2) when in the well known real life you knife has to bear a spine whack test;

Why, in the “well known real life” [sic] would anyone perform a “spine whack test”, and if they did why would not proper safety precautions be taken?

i don’t want replies to this, i’m just pointing out some interesting contradictions.

it seems this topic has gone off the rails, now discussing lock strength, not reliability. I would think, as far as Spyderco locks go, they are all very high in reliability, defined as consistently working as designed.

I also think that all the angst and concern over the relative lock strength of the different types is a non-issue. With normal use — using a given knife within its design parameters — the likelihood of failure is probably on the order of 0.01%.

if you are going about spine-whacking, hacking through drywall with your Delica, stabbing holes in trees, batoning firewood with your Military, then you may be in that 0.01% but the lock strength of your knife is not the problem.

Wow, what an argumentative lot!
I believe the question was which is the most reliable lock.
My answer is the ball bearing lock.
In my opinion.

The ones on the doors at the spyderco mothership.

supracor wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:32 am

spyderwolf wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:30 am

And you know that for a fact because...

That liner locks suck or that they exist only for flip your blade out?

The first by my experience and the second it's an obviousness.

When i was a collector i bought a lot of liner/frame lock knives, and i was fine with them until the day that i tried to use them. I could make you a list as long as Melchizedek beard of their problems (flattened detent balls, worn down lock surfaces), but I will describe only 2 of the obvious design flaws that not only make these knives unusable, but also dangerous.
1) when you try to cut something harder than printer paper the lockbar travels in the handle of the knife, and if you continue to work without putting it back in the initial position you notice it anyway soon because it develops a huge blade play; I had 2 cases where the knife was finally rendered unusable by this, a ZT 0460 and a 0920, and this is the lesser problem

2) when in the well known real life you knife has to bear a spine whack test; In a rainy day i almost detached my right hand index with my S110V Military, and since then I don't even use it to cut carrots in the kitchen.



We all know that there are better locks than it, the Tri-Ad endures 900 lbs in the spine whack, but you can't flip out your blade with it and in the real life you don't need a knife so strong and if you try to cut something harder than air it's an obvious abuse, and use the right tool and the rants go on.

If you would have said you hate liner locks,or that there are more powerful locks,you would have had a perfectly valid point.But to try to make your personal experience and preference the measuring unit of how strong a lock should be it's amusing,to say the least.
Like sex,if you are not feeling safe using a knife,you are probably doing it wrong.
If you need so much strenght in a knife,you should go for a fix blade.

No love for the powerlock?