Missing 411: Really Strange

[TomAiello]

Links???!?

#internetfail

Amazon has the book: https://www.amazon.com/Dead-Mountain-Un ... 1452140030

With the exception of radiation, everything Amazon describes in their capsule summary could be explained by exposure, accidental or otherwise, to a hallucinogenic or other psychoactive.

It's a really good book.

After reading it, I dug around for other evidence about the incident. I think the most plausible explanation was a soviet military project and accidental exposure to radiation (or perhaps some other military project involving chemical weapons). That would explain both a fair bit of the evidence and the apparent lack of evidence (which might have been "cleaned up" by the government during the cold war era).

[TomAiello]

However if there is an interview or article that sums up the book that would be helpful (these often exist).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident

[ChrisinHove]

Links???!?

#internetfail

Who me? If so, there’s no point in me linking to Amazon UK for you! The book’s called Dead Mountain ....
If not, my apologies.

No not you. Obviously a book link doesn’t do much. However if there is an interview or article that sums up the book that would be helpful (these often exist).

Videos and articles are referenced in the initial post but how do I know I’m watching or reading what others watched or read? If you (not you) find something interesting and want to discuss it with others, then link to the relevant material! No surprise that people aren’t looking into it more when it requires extra steps to look into something that they didn’t plan on researching when they logged in.

Oh there are various summaries, but they are total spoilers that would completely ruin a good book.

[ChrisinHove]

Links???!?

#internetfail

Amazon has the book: https://www.amazon.com/Dead-Mountain-Un ... 1452140030

With the exception of radiation, everything Amazon describes in their capsule summary could be explained by exposure, accidental or otherwise, to a hallucinogenic or other psychoactive.

Closer than many, but no cigar!

[SpyderScout]

Well I never intended for this to become a "BIGFOOT" discussion but being that some folks want to rub fecal matter in my face I actually do have something valid to say about that subject. First of all there are now two well recognized scientists who both have very tangible proof and physical evidence that those creatures do indeed exist. There is a Dr. Jeff Meldrum who has studied many footprints, hair samples and even two incidents of tissue samples.

There is also a lady who is a Phd Geneticist named Dr. Melba Ketchum who has successfully done 100% accurate DNA Sequencing on over 20 different hair samples that have been submitted to her. All of her peers as well as people who work with Dr. Meldrum won't even so much as look at the scientific evidence that these two very well known and very credible scientists have brought forth. Dr. Melba Ketchum from Texas also did DNA sequencing of that canine type creature that they found in texas a few years back and that very carcass of that beast is privately owned by a Rancher in that area and has been shown to many researchers.

So before you all make me out to be some type of crackpot that is eligible to be under lock & key at a psychiatric hospital I'm just simply asking you all to at least take an objective look at the evidence. Be honest and open minded if that's possible. And at least check out a couple of the interviews that David Paulides has done in the past two years.

Like I said in my opening statement the very first time I heard the guy I blew him off. But when I stayed up one night and listened to his testimony for 3 straight hours it really got my attention>> because this guy raises questions that deserve valid answers. But at least listen to what the guy has to say or at least read a few chapters out of one of his books before you go maligning the guy. And the fact that we have as many missing people ( especially children) and the National Park authorities have done virtually nothing about it is by itself pretty disgusting and very puzzling. And the people that they have found most of them have no memory of what happened to them>> and there have been several of these people who have no memory of what took place. I can see this was a mistake to even bring it up because I thought there would be some of you who would like to objectively discuss it. Because most people in this country I'm ashamed to say are brainwashed by the mainstream news media to where they don't ask any objective questions anymore>> they just let these phony multi-million dollar a year news anchors do all their thinking for them. Sad times

With respect, nobody wants to rub anything in your face.

Its simply, that opinions differ. You can start a thread but you cant take your ball and go home, when others dont necessarily agree with you.
We should be able to have a debate about this like adults without insults being neither issued nor perceived.

Im open to a lot of things, its just that quoting someone (geneticists or not ... or a hitherto respected cop who now dabbles in researching missing hikers and/or BigFoot) doesnt not necessarily make something the truth ...nor does it make it a fact.
I applaud you for keeping an open mind and some of us might be cynical, something which tends to come across in our writings.
There is a reason for that; there are some many TV-programs, shows and books which sells dubious 'facts.'
We have seen so many spurious shows, programs, books etc, which tend to play fast and lose with the truth/facts (depending on your POV).
An example; Discovery Channel and Animal Planet (the former of which used to be semi-respected) aired a now notorious program called 'Marmaids: The Body Found.' The title is fairly self explanatory. See link below for more info.
The program gave the impression of being a documentary complet with serious looking researchers and scientist etc etc - sounds familiar.
The 'documentary' claimed to have found proof for the existence of mermaids complete with blurry video of same.

In reality, the segment was docufiction - but here is the clincher; there were very few clues to this spread through the program.
Two things happened; many actually believed, what the 'documentary' claimed and ratings went through the roof.

The latter being why there is air time for programs such as this (despiccable though is is) and why we see BigFoot programs etc etc.

It sells and there is a lot of money to be made.

Im not passing judgement on you nor your beliefs. Just saying, that with all the lies out there presented as facts, it better to take a deep breath and maybe evaluate what is being presented.

As for missing hikers; North America is big. People goes missing all the time. Some take a looong time to be found, if ever.
An inexperienced hiker goes off the trail, he gets lost, runs out of food and water, dies, his body decomposes and critters get to him, his body is hidden in the undergrowth and/or gets scattered by critters. It doesnt take much.

As for North America being vast and people missing - an example to illustrate my point: In 1952, the Airforce lost a C-124 in Alaska. It crashed en route to Elmendorf AFB to McChord AFB. Search parties were unable to locate any of the crew.

Finally, in 2012 debris were spotted and later some remains of crew members were located, recoved and identified.

Now, a Globemaster is no small plane. If the US Air Force aka. the US 'gubmint' cant find some bodies, what do you think the chances are, that a/some hikers gets lost and/or die.

As to mysterious circumstances, please consider the 'Mermaid' program and what sells.
Im not saying, that strange and/or mysterious things dont happen - just pls consider the above.

'Also plane vapour trails are chem trails, which aim to poison us' - really! :D :D (meant tongue in cheeck)

Again, nobody is out to get you nor rub anything in your face. Lets just debate this like adults.

Mermaids: The Body Found
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mermaids:_The_Body_Found

Plane crash
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your ... %20Roundup

[cabfrank]

Uh, maybe my post got ignored, but in it I said i read one of the Missing 411 books.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

My friends, those missing persons, the ones who are not inept or otherwise non-survival-trained people who cease to function in the given enviroment, end up being slurped away as "sugar blood" by evil cosmic clowns from outer space. Haven't you heard? Haven't you seen?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_Kl ... uter_Space

They are carnivorious humanoid ultra terrestrial beings who take the form of humanoid clowns.
Here are some of their characteristics:

1 Extremely malevolently vicious and psychopathic attitudes.
2 Quite strong physically, depending on the actual individal Klown.
3 They have an advanced meson and quark based technology. They can manipulate quarks and subatomic particles like this present Earth civilization manipulates steel and plastic. They have quark- based polymers and metals that are much, much stronger than conventional materials.
They have a diamond-strong fabric that can take many different forms.
4 The Klowns' favorite and almost sole subsistence-food is "Sugar Blood". They harvest animal, human, and other available creatures, and through a conversion process using an advanced enzymatic substance that resembles cotton candy externally, break this organic and biological material down into sugary blood. They are vampiric in that sense, and they drink the sugar blood out of the pseudo cotton candy food sacks with quark plastic straws.

By the way, quark plastic is roughly akin to 100,000 times stronger than the hardest, perfect nanotech alloy steel you can imagine. Quark alloys can be even stronger. And gluon alloys are even stronger than that, in the trillions of times stronger than steel.

5 Energy Weapons: They have various forms of energy weapons that can destroy and dismantle matter at the subatomic and atomic level.


Here is some information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_Kl ... uter_Space

http://killerklowns.wikia.com/wiki/Kill ... Space_Wiki

[TomAiello]

My friends, those missing persons, the ones who are not inept or otherwise non-survival-trained people who cease to function in the given enviroment, end up being slurped away as "sugar blood" by evil cosmic clowns from outer space. Haven't you heard? Haven't you seen?

Best post of the thread.

You, sir, win the internet for the day. :)

[Doc Dan]

I will relate a true bigfoot story that I was involved in, for some perspective. I think I talked about this in the practical jokes thread. When we were boys, we used to experiment with theatrical makeup. In those days you could mail loose coins and we would save up our money and write off to Paramount Pictures and buy colodium, crepe hair, grease paint, etc. We fixed this one older boy who was also taller, with hair all over his body, face, and hands, We made some fake fangs and then went out on two different nights, on this road known for the high school boys drinking and cruising, as well as a lot of men and women doing that. He jumped out in front of the head lights of the on coming cars and then would run off into the woods. We got chased by drunks and even a cop. Now, the funny thing is that there started growing a legend about this "hairy-man" of that particular mountain. By the time I was in high school, many claimed to have seen it. Now, 50 years later there is a Bigfoot statue in the area as there are so many sightings. Those involved (me included) are still laughing and we have never confessed openly to what was the real root of the story.

What I am saying is that some mysterious creatures may or may not exist. But, the human is easy to fool and it is easy to get urban legends started where people claim to see things they never have, yet believe they do. Police detectives know this very well. Once something gets planted in the mob mind, people in the mob will swear to anything. Now the mob may believe something happened and the doubters will believe something did not happen, depending on their perspective. Both are illogical, but both are rational to a point.

This does not mean that things like Bigfoot do not exist, nor does it mean that people do not disappear under mysterious circumstances. What it does mean is that we need to take unbelief as well as belief with grain of salt. Is it possible Bigfoot exists? Like Goodall, I think it may be possible, but I see no hard evidence. I hear and see reports of sightings, but I wonder why no one has brought back a body, a head (hunters take trophies), or etc. Why has no one hit one with a car? Why is there no infrared images of them from aircraft searching (of course distances are vast)? On the other hand, why should I outright doubt the existence when some actual scientists think it is possible? Based upon what evidence do I deny the existence? None. To deny the existence just because I do not see evidence I like is not intellectually honest.

[ChrisinHove]

It’s all your fault, Doc Dan! Fantastic...

[Doc Dan]

It’s all your fault, Doc Dan! Fantastic...

hahaha! It was great fun, and is still fun to think about. We are also responsible for the legend of the monster in the TN River bottom. For that, read the practical jokes thread. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80796&hilit=practical+jokes

[MichaelScott]

Interesting and well said, Doc. However I disagree with your closing statement. “To deny the existence just because I do not see evidence I like is not intellectually honest.”

If there are assertions that something is true, not merely belief or opinion, then it is necessary for the claimants to provide real evidence for their claims. It is intellectually dishonest to accept the claims otherwise.

And, by the way, Goodall claimed for years that the chimps in Gombie were exemplars of non-violent primate social behavior when she knew otherwise. Only after other researchers showed that they will cooperate to hunt, kill and eat other chimps did she drop the peaceful chimpanzee ancestors bit.

Evidence.

[JD Spydo]

I read a fine investigative book about the Dyatlov Pass incident in 1959 in the Soviet Union (called Dead Mountain) where nine young but experienced hikers died.

I won’t spoil it by saying more, only to say that it’s a book that should satisfy both the sceptical and the more open minded.

Hey Brother I'm glad you brought that up. Because I've seen about 3 documentaries on that incident of the Russian students in 1959 who all under very mysterious circumstances were brutally murdered and some died of exposure. One of the women had her tongue removed and some of the others were mauled by some type of animal. One of those documentaries actually showed a note written by one of the deceased students saying "THE SNOWMAN LIVES".

We here in the USA supposedly have our "bigfoot" whereas the folks over in Asia have what they call the "YETI". But that mass murder of those Russian students has really baffled me over the years. And many of the testimonies that David Paulides has come forth with are just as weird, mysterious and un-explainable as that "Dyatlov Pass" massacre from 1959 seems to be as well. And that Russian, Ural Mountains disaster in 1959 was way before a lot of this other current phenomenon in the USA was ever taking place.

Again I want to respectfully and peacefully put this before all of you. How many of you have honestly sat down and even so much as looked at least one or two of David Paulides interviews and listed intently to what the guy has to say. I don't think it's fair at all for you all to malign the guy when you haven't even so much as considered any of the rock solid evidence that this guy has come forth with.

He has a recent interview on Youtube about many very experienced hunters and avid outdoorsmen on public lands who have come up mysteriously missing in the past 3 years>> and these aren't greenhorn tourists>> these are very experienced hunters, hikers and outdoorsmen. I'm telling you all that this guy ( who is a former Police detective) is truly on to something. Also his recent interview by George Knapp last Sunday night was very interesting as well. But he has over a dozen interviews on Youtube and other sources with several documented cases with no explanation at all as to what happened to many of these people :confused: .

[willc]

I’ve read 3 of Paulides books and if what he is documenting is accurate there is some very strange things going on in our wilds.
Even if it is a super small percentage of the population that is affected by this doesn’t mean something odd isn’t going on and I give the guy a bit a credit for depth of investigating that he does.

[cabfrank]

Right? As someone who also actually read one of the books, I agree.

[MichaelScott]

Sure, it is a mystery, and, by definition unknown. If you don’t know, you can surmise anything. How about stumbling into a space warp and being sucked into an alternate universe? How about alien space-shifting zombies who merely appeared human, but disappeared back to the mother ship without a trace. How about God deciding to transport them directly to heaven, or ****, depending? How about unknown monsters that live in the wilderness and kill and eat innocent people they happen to encounter?

I’d like some actual evidence that can be analyzed by actual professionals and scientists who have accepted credentials in their fields. Until then, it’s Twilight Zone without the commercials. Sells books though.

[cabfrank]

Remember, non-existence cannot be proven. Just because we can't prove it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We don't know everything, and probably not nearly as much as we think we do.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Interesting and well said, Doc. However I disagree with your closing statement. “To deny the existence just because I do not see evidence I like is not intellectually honest.”

If there are assertions that something is true, not merely belief or opinion, then it is necessary for the claimants to provide real evidence for their claims. It is intellectually dishonest to accept the claims otherwise.

And, by the way, Goodall claimed for years that the chimps in Gombie were exemplars of non-violent primate social behavior when she knew otherwise. Only after other researchers showed that they will cooperate to hunt, kill and eat other chimps did she drop the peaceful chimpanzee ancestors bit.

Evidence.

Michael, do you think Goodall's motivation for her original claims was because she was biased in favor of them, and only after the evidence of their potential and actual violence came out, did she change her public statements?

I remember a zoologist years ago telling me "Son, these are wild animals. Remember that. But the Mountain Gorillas are are actually quite peaceful and "safe" in comparison to the chimps. An angered chimp can tear your face off in a hurry. And baboons are worse!".

Then remember that horrible incident where that woman's face was literally torn off by her friend's pet chimpanzee? And I have seen video footage of baboons going crazy in Africa; whole groups of them will harass tourists and locals alike.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

JD: Regarding the bigfoot claims, I too have studied and read up on these over the years, and I even interviewed people who claimed to have had personal encounters with them; some I consider to be somewhat "mentally unbalanced" and others seemed like pretty solid people. (not disparaging those who suffer from mental illness, ofcourse) One was a member of a Native American tribe, the Lakota Sioux, who told me that many decades ago he was in one of the sweat lodges that they build, and he could hear and feel the sound of heavy footsteps on the ground outside the lodge. The next thing he knew, he claimed to me, the sasquatch/bigfoot lifted up the top of the sweat lodge (as you may know it is made of thatched and joined-together branches and plant materials, as well as stones, as seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweat_lodge), shook it around, looked down at him and the others in the lodge, then made an almost shrugging of the shoulders-type of movement, dropped the top of the lodge down, and took off in great leaping strides.

I asked him "And you are absolutely serious, not kidding, not joking?" and he nodded and said yes, he was serious. I do not believe the man to have been lying. And he claimed he was not drunk or anything, either, at the time. He was absolutely serious. I also asked him if he believed these creatures pose an "immanent threat to mankind" as in, are they vicious and carnivorous. He did not think they are. His view seemed to be that they are a sort of intelligent ape like creature that has learned over thousands of years to avoid humans because we are inherently dangerous and will hunt, kill, and exploit them.

One of the problems with this view, though, is this: IF these creatures are indeed simply a somewhat intelligent animal, in the category of a lost species of ape, or bear like creature, why has it been so consistently difficult for human beings to capture live specimens, and take DNA and other samples. and prove once and for all that they exist? You would think with all of our technology and capacities in this manner, that would have been done by now. But then again, maybe this Native American man was correct; they are just very good at outwitting humans.

This issue leads some of the big foot searchers to think there is something deeper going on here: That perhaps these beings are part of some "extra terrestrial" program. But that leads to a whole different topic.

[JD Spydo]

OK guys and gals I have some of the better of these video/interviews I've sorted through. I'm hoping that at least maybe a couple of you will at least take a look at these and let me know what you think. Here are the URLs for the videos

https://youtu.be/pPNNbnI6I7E


https://youtu.be/KCfbOeUAfSs

This next one is a really strange, unexplainable case>> it's about an Emergency Room Doctor who was also a marathon runner which is really close to my heart because I was into that at one time. He was carrying a GPS unit as well as a cell phone with a back-up battery. It was in Vail CO and he had been there before and knew the terrain very well. This one really baffled me to no end>> it's not just a simple disappearance at all. The guy's name was Dr. James McGrogan>> you can find his video on You Tube>> for some reason I can't get the URL to work on this one?
There are other cases similar to his. But this one has no plausible explanation at all IMO.