Lil VS XL

[vivi]

I cannot for the life of me understand Spyderco fans obsession with small knives.

As the days go by I feel like every Spyderco knife gets a "lil" request. Even scaled down, mini versions of knives, are asked to be shrunk even further! Like the mini-manix people keep asking to be scaled down to a mini-mini size.

Color me strange, but I like being able to fit all five of my fingers on my hand tools!

I have never had someone have a negative reaction to the size of my pocket knife. I've used a Military in stores to cut off tags, EDC'd a Police to my last office job, and never carry a knife smaller than an Endura.

I feel big knives do things more efficiently than small knives, so if I can comfortably and legally carry one, I will. Same reason a chef knife does 95%+ of my food prep instead of a paring knife...it's so much more efficient!

Like pretty much everyone else that chooses to spend their time here, I do so because Spyderco is my favorite maker of cutlery.

But as the years go on, to be blunt, their offerings appeal to me less and less.

I get it. I really do. Spyderco is a business and they need to cater to the market instead of strange nerds with peculiar views on what makes a good pocket knife.

Maybe I'm *****ing for no reason. After all, we are finally getting an FRN Police. Some day. After hoping for one since about 2009, like the ZDP Police 3 I always hoped would happen. Meanwhile the Para 3 launch has come and gone, along with 25 different sprints to compliemnt the 50 delica sprints to go along with the 30 Para 2 sprints, etc. etc. Manix XL? Oh, you can get it with a black blade. Police 3? Be happy it came out. Catcherman? You were too late to buy one, tough ****.

I want to see Spyderco cater to me, and people like me, better. I'm being selfish. It makes me sad when I read a thread about big folders, and Sal says, and I am paraphrasing, "Maybe go buy a Cold Steel, Lynn is more inclined to make BIG folders than I am."

I want to see Spyderco not just dip their toes in these waters, but completely dominate them. I want to see them build up knives with stats like the catcherman. 4.75" blade in a package that's rust proof and weighs under 3oz? Are you kidding me? That sounds so much better than a 5.5oz folder with a 3.6" cutting edge!

I did go buy a Cold Steel folder. I bought a few in fact. One is in my pocket right now. They do make good large folding knives. But I remain convinced that Spyderco can do them better. The fit and finish, attention to detail, and technoligical innovation I observe in my Pacific Salt puts my Voyagers to shame. But my large Voyager hits a lot of the right marks for me, so it's in my pocket.

I want to see Spyderco kick it back out.

[fixall]

I cannot for the life of me understand Spyderco fans obsession with small knives.

As the days go by I feel like every Spyderco knife gets a "lil" request. Even scaled down, mini versions of knives, are asked to be shrunk even further! Like the mini-manix people keep asking to be scaled down to a mini-mini size.

Color me strange, but I like being able to fit all five of my fingers on my hand tools!

I have never had someone have a negative reaction to the size of my pocket knife. I've used a Military in stores to cut off tags, EDC'd a Police to my last office job, and never carry a knife smaller than an Endura.

I feel big knives do things more efficiently than small knives, so if I can comfortably and legally carry one, I will. Same reason a chef knife does 95%+ of my food prep instead of a paring knife...it's so much more efficient!

Like pretty much everyone else that chooses to spend their time here, I do so because Spyderco is my favorite maker of cutlery.

But as the years go on, to be blunt, their offerings appeal to me less and less.

I get it. I really do. Spyderco is a business and they need to cater to the market instead of strange nerds with peculiar views on what makes a good pocket knife.

Maybe I'm *****ing for no reason. After all, we are finally getting an FRN Police. Some day. Mean while the Para 3 launch has come and gone, along with 25 different sprints to compliemnt the 50 delica sprints to go along with the 30 Para 2 sprints, etc. etc. Manix XL? Oh, you can get it with a black blade. Police 3? Be happy it came out. Catcherman? You were too late to buy one, tough ****.

I want to see Spyderco cater to me, and people like me, better. I'm being selfish. It makes me sad when I read a thread about big folders, and Sal says, and I am paraphrasing, "Maybe go buy a Cold Steel, Lynn is more inclined to make BIG folders than I am."

I want to see Spyderco not just dip their toes in these waters, but completely dominate them. I want to see them build up knives with stats like the catcherman. 4.75" blade in a package that's rust proof and weighs under 3oz? Are you kidding me? That sounds so much better than a 5.5oz folder with a 3.6" cutting edge!

I did go buy a Cold Steel folder. I bought a few in fact. One is in my pocket right now. They do make good large folding knives. But I remain convinced that Spyderco can do them better. The fit and finish, attention to detail, and technoligical innovation I observe in my Pacific Salt puts my Voyagers to shame. But my large Voyager hits a lot of the right marks for me, so it's in my pocket.

I want to see Spyderco kick it back out.

What do you do with a 4.75” blade that you can’t do with a 3.5” blade?

I actually prefer around a 3” blade on my folders. I find large folders cumbersome and annoying in the pocket. If I need a blade larger than 3.5” - 4” I grab a fixed blade which is probably more suited for the job anyways.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[vivi]

What do you do with a 4.75” blade that you can’t do with a 3.5” blade?

I actually prefer around a 3” blade on my folders. I find large folders cumbersome and annoying in the pocket. If I need a blade larger than 3.5” - 4” I grab a fixed blade which is probably more suited for the job anyways.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I can slice bread, cut watermelon, cut cantaloupe, halve large apples, clear trail, break down cardboard, cut up chicken breast, break off chunks of fatwood from a stump, and many, many other cutting tasks more efficiently with 5" of blade compared to 3.5".

I can cut a 4.5" wide apple in half with my Spin. It would be a pain in the ***, but I could make it happen. Or I could grab my Police and be done with the task in a single cut.

I do not find many cutting applications that require the additional strength a fixed blade affords. I do find many cutting applications that additional edge length would be more efficient for. I also find a 5" bladed folder worlds more comfortable to carry than a 5" bladed fixed blade, especially in an EDC capacity.

Most of my EDC FB's have 2.75"-3.5" of cutting edge. They are a compromise, efficiency vs carry comfort. Folders I do not have to make that compromise....if someone is making knives how I'd like them to be made :D

[Ric]

For EDC my limit is 3,5 oz.
That limits the blade size in general.

I am happy with my Para 3 as my "big" folder.
I also carry the Lil Native and Dragonfly.
Victorinox Rambler (Classis SD size) during travel - it should be legal and OK to use nearly everywhere.

I cut boxes, paper, cloth tags.
Small stuff.

In the kitchen I use a big kitchen knife. Here blade length is needed. 8 inches and more.
But pocket knife normally do not slice as good as (cheap) kitchen knifes.

So pocket knife for EDC, box cutting....
Food prep --> kitchen knife

In the new catalog there are also some big folders - so Spyderco deliver!

[Sjucaveman]

Not everyone has Vivi sized hands.

[krikun98]

What is your EDC, then? Because for me it's mostly packages and food. And while you can slice up packages with a small knife, food prep is a struggle. A big blade allows you to, for example, cut a cake without getting icing in the pivot.
The only thing smaller than the Endura I own is a BM Gaucho, and that's purely because I love the blade shape.

[ZrowsN1s]

I'm one of those people who wants a 'Mini Mini Manix' lulz. Normally I'd go on my smaller is better rant, and tell you why I like the Para3 so much more than the PM2....
But the strangest thing happened. I tried out a larger (larger for me anyways :D ) knife, and I really liked it (Shaman).

I did have to quickly put it away and take out my Dragonfly instead while cutting up some boxes in the hallway at work and I heard a group of clients coming down the hall, but I'm enjoying the big heavy blade, and find plenty of opportunities to use it.

I know it's on the small side for you, but you should check out the shaman if you haven't already, they're even going to do a sprint. And allegedly there's an even bigger Native Chief in the works, the Subvert as well. Don't lose hope Vivi, big things are coming. There's always the Espada XL if you get desperate though :D

[Evil D]

I'm sure many could say they can't for the life of me understand why you're obsessed with 5 inch blades


I suspect the largest reason is that it's either illegal or just plain inconvenient for others. Regardless of why, it's probably safe to say the average size will always sell the most.

[supracor]

XL forever.

My hands hates lil models.

[Daveho]

Tl;dr
I carry the smallest knife that will reasonably handle the tasks I ask of it, why carry more I figure

[mb1]

Vivi, I think most pocket knife buyers are light users, if they use their knives at all. Heavy users are more in the minority, a subset of an already small niche of the population. So in reality, a 2" lightweight blade suffices for most people. It opens all the Amazon packages they can handle!

This reminds me of the fact that small, traditional slipjoints were the norm for how many decades? Easier to clean your fingernails with those smaller blades. :)

It's a good time to be a knife person though. We sure get a buffet of choices these days.

[bearfacedkiller]

We live in a time where social norms have shifted in many places. Just because you have never lived were people get alarmed by large knives does not mean that others do not get reactions from people. I can carry whatever I want here legally and nobody seems to even care. I can carry a 5 inch fixed blade on my hip here and nobody even bats an eye. If I am doing yard work or coming home from a camping trip and need to stop at the supermarket I don't bother taking my belt knife off. I live in one of the most liberal hippie places in the country but it is also one of the more rural places as well. However, I can drive about three hours and be in a major metro area with a 2.5 inch blade law and reactions would be totally different. I would say that you and I live in places that are far more accepting of knives than most.

We used to live life with slipjoints with small blades. We now live in a world were most people work in an office (thankfully I never have ) and just don't need a bigger folder. There were not many large folders in the past and then we got the buck 110 which is a good sized knife. In the early 80's we got the Spyderco Police which is a formidable blade as well as the Endura. Truly large folders came to be in that era and have been available ever since. There acceptance however peaked in the era between when they came to be and when they became less pragmatic and less socially acceptable.

I do not think that it is fair to say Spyderco is not supporting folks who like big blades. I like them too and carry a Military regularly. I just recently got a Pattada and am in love with it at the moment. There is the K2, Euroedge, Police4, Hundered Pacer. There is also a frn Police4 in the works. The Carribean is 3.75 with a larger version also in the planning stages that is supposed to be in the 4.25 range. Considering what a small part of the market large folders are they seem to still be taking chances with some 4 inch and larger blades. Look at how slow the sales of Military sprints and exclusives are. I never see picks of the ManixXL on the forums and when they come up for sale on the exchange the price is low. Big knives just don't sell well yet Spyderco continues to put them out. Why? Because they try to make everybody happy, almost to a fault sometimes.

Coming from somebody who is in the big knife fan club with you I have to say, yes, you are *****ing for no reason. :D

[Evil D]

This reminds me of the fact that small, traditional slipjoints were the norm for how many decades? Easier to clean your fingernails with those smaller blades. :)

That's an interesting topic. I think our forefathers simply used the right tool for the job, but I also think they were much more limited by the tools they had, specifically the pocket knives they had. Nobody had folding knives as strong or with the steels we have today. If you had tried to baton through something with a Case in front of my grandfather he probably would have just slapped you in the head or died from laughter. You wouldn't paint a house with a toothbrush so why split logs with a knife? But, I also wonder if that mentality would have been different if he had a Shaman to play with? Part of the reason we can get away with doing jobs with pocket knives that other tools would be better suited for is because our knives can handle it. I think the modern pocket knife is much more versatile than it used to be, if for no other reason than it's simply stronger and holds an edge better than ever.

Even besides all that, I also wonder how size plays a part. I don't remember many 5 inch slip joints. It seems that back then if you wanted that much blade you just went for the Bowie or Kabar and if that wasn't enough you had a machete.

Maybe pockets were just smaller 70 years ago?

[MichaelScott]

Vivi,
I could not but notice that your posts always favor bigger knives. Nothing wrong with that but obviously many people don’t share your fascination with large knives as EDC knives. I’d think if your job or activities need a larger knife Spyderco has a few models that will serve, but these days a large percentage of folks live and work in an urban, or non-rural environment in which large knives are cumbersome, more difficult to carry comfortably in casual or work dress and not needed to do the majority of everyday cutting tasks. I’d say most people use a kitchen knife for food tasks, not their Military.

Here is an example for you. Yesterday the medical supply company delivered my wheelchair. The young man who did this was removing the plastic wrap which was securely taped in many spots. I noticed that he was carrying a large folder in his right front pocket. The clip was longer than my Rhino. At one point he reached into his left front pocket, took out an old two blade slip joint with bone scales, opened it with two hands, cut the tape, then closed it one handed and slipped it back into his pocket. The big folder, whatever it was, never made an appearance.

Again, not to say that large folders don’t have their uses, but I think Spyderco is where they need to be in the quality knife market. At least they are for me. I like their large folder selection, but I buy and use smaller knives.

[Sharp Guy]

Maybe pockets were just smaller 70 years ago?

Perhaps but I also think the addition of clips helped a lot.

[SF Native]

The lil knives seem to be a spyderco specialty. Not many other quality makers are selling them. How many 2” to 2 1/2” zt’s are there? 1 maybe.
How many 3 1/2” to 4” zt’s are there? Almost all of them.
If you are looking for over 4”, well that’s a rare thing all around.
Some of this is knife laws. Some is what sells. Personally, I have short legs and I really notice the length in my pocket. Shorter knives are just more comfortably to carry for me.

[ChrisinHove]

Wasn’t the Tatanka big enough?

(I really wanted one of these, and still do, but have zero use for it really).

I think our predecessors solely used fixed blades for heavier work. I occasionally see old houses where the stone fire surrounds are heavily dished in one place or another from, literally, centuries of knife sharpening. Cheap but hefty hunks of whatever-steel that could be knocked up by the local blacksmith.

[MichaelScott]

And I really would like a Schemp Bowie, but I have absolutely no use for one. I just think it is a great design (and my dad and sister were born in Bowie, Texas and I did a lot of growing up there so that probably has something to do with it).

[TomAiello]

I cannot for the life of me understand Spyderco fans obsession with small knives.

Jurisdiction?

Legal limits mean that the full size version of some really great EDC knives just aren't a (legal) option for quite a lot of people.


I, for one, would love to see a lil Manix 2. I'd buy one instantly for travel use.

[MichaelScott]

Here in Colorado, home of Spyderco, carrying concealed a knife with a blade over 3.5” is considered carrying an illegal weapon. So, smaller than that is good, longer is potentially bad. That could be a reason, at least here, why 2.5” to 3.0” blades are popular. Besides, they are generally more useful and easier to carry.